Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

[Cinders]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Brave,

That is awesome news. It will be fantastic if you don't have to titrate up higher.

Stick where you are a while and feel the waters.

btw, I know exactly what you mean about having to break the habit. I, too, get those thoughts but instead of being unable to get them out of my head, I can play the tape forward to what will really happen. I never could do that before I started the Bac.

As a consequence, I don't think I would take a drink. What it has done to me and my loved ones has been horrific. No thanks.

I am very glad you are feeling success so quickly.

Cindi

[Anna B]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Brave--

Like Cindi, I know exactly what you mean when you talk about how when you're on bac, wanting a drink seems like it's more out of habit than out of craving. I feel exactly the same way. One thing that I know I'm going to struggle with is breaking that habit, but at the same time, it's a lot easier than getting rid of a strong craving!

--Anna

[toughintexas]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Cinders, and Zen, no kiddin, Whoa Nellie....lol.... I am going to back off to 10am, 10mg's, 2pm, 10mgs, and 6pm, 15mg's....and stay there thru Tues. See if that helps the whole weird feeling thing! I can tell its really helping, had friends in from out-of-town, Friday night, went to a vineyard, wine tasting, and dinner, and only had total of 3 glasses of wine, over lots of hours. I was soooo proud of myself! Yesterday we had a tad more, around and in the pool, like probably 5 total, from about lunchtime, til bedtime....not my goal, but soooooo much improved, esp, in the setting, and with company here! I hope I'll level out on this dose, and then move very slowly by 5mgs upwards, no off switch yet, but the dimmer switch is in place! I have to drive alone all the way to Colorado, except for the bulldog for entertainment, next Sat., it'll take an overnighter in KS, so I have to have all my facilities about me. I'm wondering if, since it has such a short half like of 3-5 hrs, if I could just take it at bedtime, while driving, I'm not going to be drinking anything put water and tea on the road, so no prn dose except when I stop. Also, I was wondering about just taking the 3 doses during the "worst" craving times of the day, say take one at 4pm, 6pm, and like bedtime???? That'd be like a dose before the 5:00 happy hour time, then a prn dose at 6pm, and then before or at bedtime? Anyone tried playing with the times of the doses???? Just wondering! Thanks for the advice and input!

[cowgal]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

don't know!?

I just started at 10 mg 3 x a day (what doc wrote for)(oh, and I am up to three tablets 3 x a day) and no side effects and NO desire to drink, and I mean I was back at my "bad point", feeling hopeless etc........................I am a happy camper!!!!

I may add, I had acupuncture for back pain and drinking yesterday, awesome experience, and that may have something to do w/ it?? But the stopping of craving was before that.........................and I am not obsessed whatsoever, this is the miracle drug of the century for me, unless it is just the "placebo effect", but I am going to enjoy it while I can!!!!!

love,:l:h

MA

[Lusus Naturae]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Cross posting this to threads it applies to...
This is intended to be a brief summary of my progress, from receiving my first Baclofen tabs to now. We'll see how short I can keep it...

Day one (7/21/09):

I received my tabs 7/21, 2PM. Took 5 mg immediately. Took another 5 (all dosages will be in mg) at 3PM, another 5 at 4PM, another at 5:30, and the final 5 at 8:30PM. I drank a total of 8 oz of vodka interspersed with that. I felt a little somnolence, and increased effects of the AL. Sleep was weird. I woke up after about an hour, and was totally confused. I thought I was on vacation, then I thought it was the weekend, and only after a few minutes of confusion did I figure out tomorrow is a work day. I woke about once an hour, but got back to sleep.

Day two:

35 mg total. 5 drinks total. Still had the urge to drink, but the effects were magnified by the bac, and I drank more slowly. Much less than usual. Sleep was again punctuated with waking, but overall better with than without bac. I had a headache that began just before bedtime, and increased during the night. It turns out I can't blame that on the bac. I had a serious sunburn, and those always give me this kind of headache.

Day three:

50 mg, 2 beers. Not much somnolence, and increased relaxed attention. Not sure which is bac, and which is reduced al. Noticed some physical and psychological effects similar to hydergine. Weird. Sleep is again distirbed: 4 hours straight, then again with the one hour stints.

Day four:

60 mg, 4 drinks. Sleep was incredible. Dreams were incredible. 12 hrs sleep!

Day five:

70 mg, 3 beers.

Day six:

Slight fuzziness in the morning, but one cup of coffee remedied that.

100 mg, 2 beers.

From this point on, I'll just list the bac/day.

7: 140 mg
8: 80 mg
9: 90 mg
10: 110 mg
11: 130 mg
12: (8/1) 200 mg. AL free this day. Not such a good night.
13: 140 mg
14: 90 mg
15: 100 mg
16: 90 mg
17: 140 mg
18: 150 mg
19: 80 mg
20: 110 mg
21: 110 mg. AL free from here 'till now.
22: 130 mg
23: 140 mg
24: 120 mg
25: 150 mg
26: 140 mg
27: That would be today. Still AL free, no bac yet today.

Sorry about the excessive/anemic detail. I thought the first few days would be more interesting (excpet for the events surrounding day 12).

I'm sure you noticed the extreme titration rate, as well as the variation day to day. I'll post about that, how it worked, and the reasoning behind it elsewhere.

I've experienced some somnolence, especially at the higher intakes, but nothing all too bad. Other than that, and the initial minor (I think) sleep disturbances, there's been nothing that I can either attribute to bac alone, or is significant.

It's been an interesting ride. Up to day 20 I was still drinking. The initial numbers were quite low, surprisingly low for me. At that point I was thinking that if that were the extent of it, that would be enough. I was reaching what I considered to be my goal of moderation. Simply amazing.

AL intake went up from there, but not to anywhere near the levels just prior to bac. At the most, I'd have maybe six or seven drinks.

By day 21, it was clear I was just drinking out of habit, and to make sure I slept. Lack of sleep is just one source of anxiety for me, and leads me to do stupid things, like drink. It was one of the excuses I had for drinking. Bac both reduced that and other anxieties, and helped with the sleep. Two (of four or so) benefits of bac.

On day 20, I had run out of AL, and day 22 I couldn't be bothered to go to the store to get more. The desire just wasn't enough to make a 15 minute (total) trip.

That lack of desire continued, and I would purposely think of alcohol to try to spark some kind of desire. I did manage to do so a couple of times. One was after doing some yard work in the heat and sun, and I thought a nice cold lager would be nice. Though it was more of the taste and sensation I wanted, not the buzz. I had some ice water, and the thought soon passed. I had one other similar experience, and actually briefly thought of going to the store. That's as far as that thought went. It simply didn't persist.

Beyond that, my feelings surrounding thoughts of alchohol now seem like a lifetime removed from just a month ago. I simply don't care. I don't have any aversion, and if I had a nice cold beer I'd give it a try. I just don't have enough desire to make any effort to do so. I've been within steps of the stores a few times, but just didn't feel the need to go there.

It's been just a week of that, so I'm not declaring myself "cured", but at this point, I simply can't express the difference between now and a short time ago. The difference feels like years, not weeks. The positive changes that simply happened are too many to mention in this "brief" post.

My deepest thanks to all those who have posted their experiences with bac on these threads. It was through these threads that I decided to try bac. It would not have happened otherwise. At the rate I was going, I'd be doing the Sinclair naltrexone method and hoping I would be one of the lucky ones where it would take a few months, and if not, hoping for less than a year for success.

Ok, I think I've reached my brief limit. And yes, for me, that was brief.

.

[Alex H.]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Baclofen question- Hi everyone - new to MWO

Hi, I started on Baclofen a few weeks ago and I'm up to about 50 MG per day. One thing I've noticed is that my facial mucscles are not as tight as they used to be. They seem to be sagging - almost as if I were still drinking (but I'm not). Has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks.
Alex H.

[Cinders]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Alex,

:welcome:

I have not experienced that at all, myself, but it is a muscle relaxant, so that side effect would not be surprising.

We do have a thread under this form about side effects, you may want to post your experience there so others can find it.

Have you noticed any reduction in cravings yet?

Glad you are here!!
Cindi

[Zman]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Lusus,

Geat to hear about your success!

Some questions:

When you went AF on day 21, was it a conscious effort, or did you just not feel like drinking?

Prior to the time when you felt a complete lack of craving, was there a gradual lessening of cravings, or did it just suddenly happen?

I know you kind of answer these questions in your post, but it would be great if you could specifically address these issues.

I am a 150 (been there for 2 days now) and I also find tha from about 120 onwards, I was drinking much slower than usual (like 50% slower) but given enough time, I would still end up drinking the same amount as before the Bac (just over a longer period of time). And I still have cravings, though they may have a reduced, its not by much. I am also taking the Bac generic known as Lioresal. It would be great if anyone knows whether this generic is not as strong as the stuff you get in the US. Maybe that would explain why I am still not at the off switch level (I weigh about 175 lbs).

Thanks

[Alex H.]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Baclofen

Hi Cinders,

Thanks for the reply and the welcome. I have experienced reductions in cravings, although the facial muscle issue worries me (because if it causes me to age prematurely, I feel like that may cause me to want to drink in the future). The only other side effect is that I have felt extremely goofy and talkative (especially if I mix with any caffeine, i.e. tea). Sometimes on single dosages of 15-20 mg, I almost feel tipsy (but in a good way).

Also, could anyone give me an idea of how long the effects of a single dose 10 mg dose are lasting? I don't seem to be getting more than about 3 hours out of mine. Thanks much!!

Alex

[Lusus Naturae]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Zman,

I hope you find the switch soon. I can understand your frustration. All I can say is keep trying. I don't know if it will work for you, or when, or how, but if you don't give it a full test, you'll never know.

By the 19th day (Aug 9th), it was becoming apparent that drinking was not really necessary any more. I wasn't getting any feelings I could identify as pleasant, and it just seemed like I was drinking completely out of habit.

I ran out of AL 8/9, and after thinking about it a bit, realized that I was ready to see what would happen if I just stopped, so I didn't go to the store that evening. I had an unusual amount of somnolence the 10th, (sorry about the days from starting bac counting vs dates. I'm confusing even myself...) but other than that, no problems stopping. I certainly had no desire to continue drinking. Whether I would have earlier, I don't know, but at that point, I was ready.

When I read your question about a specific amount of bac when no longer needing AL, I thought about whether there was a specific point that I could identify as being the "off" moment. There wasn't a specific moment, and from my apparently uneven daily intake of bac, it's impossible to pinpoint an exact amount of bac (see my Lusus under the Influence thread about the titrating). I can narrow it down to less than a week. From my notes, I see I had a beer prior to an important work meeting 8/5. I normally don't drink during working hours, and my notes don't specify why I decided to that day. I know I was working from home that day, but there's nothing unusual about that. In any case, that day I had 6 oz vodka and two beers by 2 PM, and my notes indicate I was feeling good with the AL and bac (and the meeting went well). Between that time and the 9th, something changed.

Between 8/5 and 8/9, the levels of bac levelled off somewhat, and the need for AL just diminished. That's as close as I can get to a specific level and/or time. The amounts I was taking daily can be a little misleading. Again, see the "under the influence" thread. I was (and am) taking the bac mostly from the afternoon until bedtime, so the amount in my bloodstream during this time is greater than what it would be if the same amount were distributed evenly throughout the day, which is the schedule most seem to be using. How that translates to an even distribution throughout the day I can't even begin to guess.

I'm about 170 lbs, 6 foot male. I'm not sure size is the sole determining factor for the amount needed for craving (or better yet desire) supression. Bill.P wrote in a post about that, but I can't seem to find that post now. It seems to me there are many factors involved, and in my case, with my schedule differing so greatly from others', I can't even imagine how to compare.

So in summary, I offer my experience for what it's worth. I can't pin down a particular moment or time, but I can within a few days, and the amount of bac I was taking during that period was as constant as it gets for me. I have no way to translate that into anything meaningful for anyone else. Sorry.

The amount of AL I was drinking reduced greatly as soon as I started with bac, then gradually increased. It was still much less than I was drinking previously. During the period leading up to 8/9, I did notice a decrease in the effects of AL, and decreased desire, but I didn't suspect that it would extinguish that quickly.

I don't know about Lioresal, but bacmax, pacifen, and vioridon (all of which are non-us manufactured) all work for me.

And back to the somnolence 8/10... Over the month or so I've been taking bac, I've noticed similarities between the effects of bac and GHB. That shouldn't be surprising, since they both affect (and they're unusual in that) the same receptors. I took ghb back when it was legal, and you could get it over the counter. It was a much more pleasant effect than bac (and something alcoholics should stay very far away from), but very similar nonetheless. One effect that is similar is the somnolence. The effect I felt 8/10 (and before and after, though not very frequently) is very much the same. One aspect of this is little micro-sleeps. I was reading some very technical material that afternoon, and found myself entering micro-sleeps frequently. I would read half a paragraph, sleep for a few moments, then jolt awake, and finish the paragraph. During the few seconds I spent asleep, I would dream of the bit I just read, sometimes digesting it, sometimes going off in odd tangents. I did that for a couple of hours. I just found that amusing...

Zman, you're lucky. This post almost didn't make it. I'm still finding myself mwo access challenged, and my network connection dropped just as I was posting this. I realized what was happening and quickly copied the text from the editor. If I hadn't done that, everything I just typed would have been lost, and I wouldn't have typed it again (at least not as verbosely). Now that I've gone through all the trouble of resetting my network connection, getting logged in to the vpn, etc., I can now post this. BTW, for anyone who's interested, the whole proxy thing was a monumental waste of time. These things have become horribly profit driven, and in the ugly way that they become such on the www these days.

.

[billyb]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

zman,

lioresal works just as well as all others I've tried, and is in fact is about the closest to a "non-generic" version you can buy, since it's manufactured by Novartis, a giant pharma company with a huge R&D division. I don't know of any US-manufactured versions of baclofen, but as long as it has the stated amount of baclofen, it doesn't matter where its made.

Liorisal (Switzerland), bacmax (India), pacifen (New Zealand), and vioridon (Russia) have all worked well for me, and they all seem the same in terms of potency.

[Zman]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Thanks for your responses.

I am at 150 and am feeling some pretty bad somnolence and foggy headedness. I cant go up any more until this wears off (this is day 3). I guess I will just keep going up if and when I adjust to the 150. I just hope I'm not the first person who posts a failure on the Failures thread which was not due to weird side-effects...

[j-vo]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Hi all Bac Fans,
I've just come back from vacation and my Bac was in the mail. I took my first 5 mg. dose. I will take 15 mgs. today, then go up to 30 for the next three days. I'll see how I feel from there and decide whether it's time to increase. Am I on the right track? I'd like to stay in contact with you all because I think I need to support and am willing to give support as well! I'm on my way to pick up my copy of "End of My Addiction" right now. Thanks for all the info. you've given me.

j-vo

[j-vo]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

One more question. Does it suggest to eat before taking the dose?

[brightlite]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

I went to 40mg yesterday. Very sleepy late day and into the evening. Had no desire to drink and didn't have drinking thoughts except that I realized I wasn't craving a glass of wine. Went to bed around 9pm and I awoke around 1pm and noticed my breathing was shallow and had to force myself to take a few deep breaths to catch my breath. That was a little scary, but not so much as the possibility of dying in your sleep from AL poisoning. I'm going to 50mg today with the highest dosage around the dinner hour and lighten up by bedtime. Anyone else experience labored breathing?