Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

[beatle]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Spectra;773041 wrote:

For me Baclofen has been a life saver, but for the long term I want to look for something more natural.
S

Just for the record, people seem to have the misimpression that baclofen is a strong medication. As I understand it, baclofen is simply a synthetic form (an "analogue") of GABA, which is a neurotransmitter found naturally in all mammals. In fact, I think you can view it as a supplement, just like the synthetic vitamins we all put into our body to greater or lesser degrees. People's bodies naturally make vitamin D through contact with the sun, but in the winter months, when their bodies don't get enough exposure to sunlight and they can't make enough vitamin D, they take supplemental vitamin D (even if they don't take pills, they get the supplement in milk and milk products, which are fortified with vitamin D). In my view, baclofen is no different than synthetic vitamins.

[Guest]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

I dont know I have been on bac for months and it has helped immensley but with drinkers like me its basically put a berlin wall between the free side and the trapped side...sorry to be so obtuse but al addiction has really caught me off side bac has vocalised to the obnoxious neighbour in my head to turn the music down... and they did!!!!! but to be completley honest Im more scared of being sober than dying young drunk ......go figure ...do they do brain transplants these days?

[cowgal]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Good news here!!

I guess I finally got the "good stuff" cuz it is really working way better than the old one....... Just to forwarn you all, the brand DOES matter!!! This batch is working wonders except I am so tired!!!! Shouldn't really take all night at ork, but I don't want to drink, so afraid not to.......

Good luck all, much love,:l:h

MA

[Dr Phill]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Absolutely!!

beatle;773168 wrote: Just for the record, people seem to have the misimpression that baclofen is a strong medication. As I understand it, baclofen is simply a synthetic form (an "analogue") of GABA, which is a neurotransmitter found naturally in all mammals. In fact, I think you can view it as a supplement, just like the synthetic vitamins we all put into our body to greater or lesser degrees. People's bodies naturally make vitamin D through contact with the sun, but in the winter months, when their bodies don't get enough exposure to sunlight and they can't make enough vitamin D, they take supplemental vitamin D (even if they don't take pills, they get the supplement in milk and milk products, which are fortified with vitamin D). In my view, baclofen is no different than synthetic vitamins.

All through my 25 years of practising medicine, I have often said to patients something along the lines of "This isn't strictly accurate or correct, but if you think of it this way, it will help you understand why I think that this is the right thing to do for you".

Beatle is right in that way. That is exactly how I think of Baclofen for me. Not strictly accurate, but it works, for me.

You should listen to Beatle. Often a voice of reason in a very crazy, mixed up world.

[PhoenixRising]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

cowgal;773195 wrote: I guess I finally got the "good stuff" cuz it is really working way better than the old one....... Just to forwarn you all, the brand DOES matter!!! This batch is working wonders except I am so tired!!!! Shouldn't really take all night at ork, but I don't want to drink, so afraid not to.......

Good luck all, much love,:l:h

MA

What brand do you have, Cowgal? I have Pacifen and it makes me feel high and tired most of the time. I'm sticking with it, though.

[cowgal]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Hey Phoenix!

It is Upsher Smith, couldn't tell you what the last brand was, but no wonder I could take 200 mg & got barely dizzy, gotta be careful w/ this as it causes me to be extremely somnolent, and working nights that is not good, not going to take hardly any tonight but I am always armed w/ some, don't wish for those dreaded withdrawal symptoms I read & hear about!!!

You doing ok!? Will be around later if you want to pm me or something,

much love,

MA

[beatle]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

I'm using one mfg by Ivax Pharm now. Anyone know about that?

It would be interesting to compare notes and experiences in relation to the different manufacturers.

I think the Bacmax I got from 4RX worked fast -- maybe because it was a soft, crumbly pill...?

[bronzecat]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

just getting started.

:new: Greetings to all. I took my 1st bac yesterday. 10mg at noon and 20mg at my "witching hour" 5pm. Downed a bottle of red wine from 6-8pm and fell asleep. Will go up 10mg a day until my body tells me otherwise. Anne thanks for the post on Ibogaine. Appreciate advice on where to procure it. I live in Tokyo so trip to Thailand is certainly possible. I thank you all for your posts. PS: I did Lenair with 0 results.

[cowgal]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Hi!

Bronzecat welcome!!:welcome: there is a wealth of info here for your reading pleasure..... Go to dr amiesons thread, consolidated bac ones(there are 2 for some reason) and zen has a great one....... There is also a site that is new but great called baclofen4alcoholism.com the guy there, Phillip, is extremely helpful and you can go on and comment, ask questions etc.........

Did you read dr amiesons book?? It was helpful to me also..... Hope it works for you, side effects eventually lessen and go away, so taper slowly, and let your body be your guide.

Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress please!!!

MA :l:h

[Dr Phill]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Above all, do no harm

Dr Phill;773205 wrote: All through my 25 years of practising medicine, I have often said to patients something along the lines of "This isn't strictly accurate or correct, but if you think of it this way, it will help you understand why I think that this is the right thing to do for you".

Beatle is right in that way. That is exactly how I think of Baclofen for me. Not strictly accurate, but it works, for me.

You should listen to Beatle. Often a voice of reason in a very crazy, mixed up world.

I’ve received a private message from one of us. It highlights an issue very dear to me. It is something that I have discussed recently on my own Thought For The Day on my own web site.
It is a mantra we should all follow - “above all, do no harm”.

The person that e-mailed me made an extremely valid point about something Beatle and I had said. Now, I think I know exactly what Beatle meant, and she is more than capable of speaking for herself.
I understand fully why some of you can be suspicious of “self-promotion” and “commercial gain”. After all, I have been on the thick end of that shitty stick already!! That is why I have not posted on this site more often. Everything I do seems to be misconstrued. I’m damned if I do, and damned if I don’t. Further, lots and lots of hard work, which is totally well meant and aimed at nothing more than trying to help others such as me, can be undone in an instant by someone with a keyboard and five minutes to kill.

However, I shall, on this occasion, promote my web site baclofen4alcoholism.com. Why?
Because the person who wrote to me was concerned that we might be giving the impression that Baclofen wasn’t strong stuff; akin to vitamins.
Let me make sure that there are no misconceptions here.

Baclofen is a ‘proper’ drug / medicine. It has ‘proper’ potential side effects. And what’s more, almost all of us are self-prescribing, with little or no professional monitoring, and we are ‘giving’ ourselves doses of this drug in very much higher doses than the norm. Further, we are doing this for a condition for which its use is not established.
But, that’s kind of OK, so long as it works, and we all know what we are getting ourselves into.
On baclofen4alcoholism.com, I have a series of pages called “Baclofen”, “Baclofen & Us”, “Taking Baclofen” and “Side Effects”. Essentially, all about Baclofen and it’s specific implications for people like you and me. Recently, a MWO contributor e-mailed me to say that these pages as “a brilliant synopsis. This is your most amazing contribution. I cannot see that this has been consolidated and articulated anywhere else in this way” I recommend that you read them.

In addition, I am so concerned about what we are all doing for and to ourselves that, on the web site, I have a specific “Report a Side Effect” page. Already, some of you have reported side effects of high dose Baclofen that are not even in the British National Formulary. Needless to say, I recommend that you read this also.
There is lots of other information and interactive stuff on the web site, but that is enough about that.

Lastly, to the issue of what Beatle said, how I responded, and vitamins. Interesting point this, once I started to think about it.
Forgive me if you already know this, but ‘vitamin’ is really a shortening of two words. ‘Vita’ ( latin for life) and ‘Amine’ or amino acid. These are precious chemicals that are vital for life. Too little of them, or an inborn inability to deal with them, you get sick. Too many of them (as supplements), you get sick. Too little vitamin C, you get scurvy. Take too much and you might get something that is now called hypervitaminosis C.

To the major point, finally! I believe that I suffer from a deficiency of GABA, which seems to affect different people in different ways, but most appear to be related to ‘addictive’ type things. I believed that a GABA supplement would make me better. Through Olivier Ameisen, I found a GABA supplement. That supplement is a synthetic GABA analogue called Baclofen. And it did make me better. What side effects might occur if lots of us take such high doses long term, I do not know. Hopefully not very many. But that is why I set the web site up. Tell me. And, through the site, I will tell everyone else.
It’s not a bed of roses and I had more side effects than most, as I talk about honestly on the web site.

I make no apologies if every message isn't strictly accurate. Analogies often work better than the strict science and truth to explain often difficult concepts to patients and lay people. Analogies are to words what analogues are to drugs. Sometimes something synthetic does the job even better than what nature created.

And, here’s a thought. Don’t forget that those vitamin supplements we all buy by the bucket load are not exactly the same as those naturally occurring in your body. They are synthetic analogues. Made specifically to be taken orally, and then digested and absorbed without losing their potency. Just like Baclofen is for GABA.
And if any of you are looking for a more 'natural' GABA analogue - there isn't one. Not yet, anyway!

Hope that helped.

[Spectra]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

I'm 40 and I've known all my life that I have an "addictive personality", which I can only assume now is actually linked to some kind of neurological susceptibility - whether that be reward pathways, GABA, serotonin or some combination I really couldn't tell. I can't help feeling that at some point in the future science will identify a mechanism within some of us that explains why our friends and partners can just have a couple of drinks now and then, while for us.... well, we all know why we're here.

My personal hope is that while Baclofen has helped to break the addiction and will continue to help my extended withdrawal, in the future I can maintain a normal lifestyle with supplements and complementary methods. And there'll always be the Bac when I slip up.

(Dr Phill, could it be possible to describe alcoholism as symptom or disease, while the underlying susceptibility is some kind of syndrome, in a similar way to diabetes or asthma perhaps ?)

[Dr Phill]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Spectra;773988 wrote: I'm 40 and I've known all my life that I have an "addictive personality", which I can only assume now is actually linked to some kind of neurological susceptibility - whether that be reward pathways, GABA, serotonin or some combination I really couldn't tell. I can't help feeling that at some point in the future science will identify a mechanism within some of us that explains why our friends and partners can just have a couple of drinks now and then, while for us.... well, we all know why we're here.

My personal hope is that while Baclofen has helped to break the addiction and will continue to help my extended withdrawal, in the future I can maintain a normal lifestyle with supplements and complementary methods. And there'll always be the Bac when I slip up.

(Dr Phill, could it be possible to describe alcoholism as symptom or disease, while the underlying susceptibility is some kind of syndrome, in a similar way to diabetes or asthma perhaps ?)

Hi Spectra
Interesting question
I am known to disappear up my own arse, so forgive me if I start to!!!

A 'syndrome' is actually a collection of symptoms and signs that occur together. For example - Syndrome Whatever is this thing occuring along with that, that and that. And it happened in more than one person.

As such, diabetes and asthma are diseases. Diabetes is sugar intolerance. Lots of things might cause it, but it is essentially sugar intolerance. Asthma is bronchospasm.

There is no doubt that alcoholism is a disease. At least for the moment, anyway. Even the AHA finally conceded that. And thank God it did. We have the only disease that I am aware of where we are treated like second class citizens just because we have it.

But you raise a really interesting point. If you start off from the premise that the fundamental pathology is one of a chemical imbalance in the brain (GABA deficiency alone may well be far too simplistic a concept), then one day that might be given a name (I call it HFD - visit my TFTD on the web site to find out why! Or ask Trixie here on MWO). There may be lots of clinical consequences from HFD - alcoholism may just be one. In which case, I guess it should then be called a symptom. And which symptom you get might be dictated by which "toxic environment" you happen to live in. Now I am really on one of my hobby horses!! I discuss this much much more elsewhere. If I tried to promote a book, Tip would be down on me like a ton of bricks, and I've only just cleared the last lot!!!

Does that give you food for thought, my friend?

[Lo0p]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Spectra;773988 wrote: I can't help feeling that at some point in the future science will identify a mechanism within some of us that explains why our friends and partners can just have a couple of drinks now and then, while for us.... well, we all know why we're here.

They already have. The genetic predisposition for alcoholism takes the form of an overactive endorphin system. Alcoholics are especially sensitive to the pleasurable feelings that alcohol gives when your brain releases endorphins. When exposed to alcohol, people with this genetic predisposition receive more reinforcement than normal people.

[Spectra]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Lo0p, I was fully addicted to physical exercise for a while (and a professional sportsman for a few years), I still train two or three hours three or four times a week.

Dr Phill, yes lots!

More research required me thinks.

Night all.

S

[Dr Phill]

Consolidated Baclofen Progress Thread

Lo0p is, as always, right.

But, might there be a syndrome here? If there is, it is a complex concept. Lo0p will be much cleverer about it than me, and maybe even disagree, but here goes! I'm going to use analogies again. Bear with me!

Your brain is, quite obviously, the largest concentration of nerve cells in your body. But there is an organ that also has a huge concentration of nerve cells for its size. Your tongue.

Some of us have lousy palates. Some of us can't taste anything. Some of us have amazing palates, and can discern almost anything. Some eat a curry (or whatever) and just wolf down the whole lot just tasting one homogenous lump. Others can taste every single ingredient. Some can't stand hot temperatures. Others don't mind. Some have to have everything almost boiling. Salty appeals to some, but repulses others. The same applies to sweet, sour, bitter and umami.

So, just for a minute think of your brain as your tongue dipping into a soup of neurotransmitters. GABA is one, and so therefore is Baclofen. Endorphins are others.

To pursue the analogy, it appears that we all have different, genetically pre-ordained “tongues”. Some people couldn’t tell the difference between malt vinegar and VSOP Cognac. Some people could tell you which grape, which year and which sherry barrel the VSOP came from.

I believe that I have a “brain tongue” that can taste alcohol. It totally gets it, and likes it. A lot. Far too much. More than my liver could put up with, it appears. Why is it that members of the same family always finish up fighting over drink!!

I have never smoked a cigarette in my life. I have never gambled in my life. I would die before I ever smoked. I would rather stick pins in my eyes than risk a ?/$ on a bet. Funny, isn’t it? Well, maybe not. Alcohol is what my “brain tongue” finds tasty. And of course, if you’re unlucky, you have lots of special “tastes”. I guess in that regard I am lucky.

So, to go back to Spectra's original question - neurotransmitter anomaly +/- other neurotransmitter anomalies + alcohol abuse = a syndrome.

Neurotransmitter anomaly +/- other neurotransmitter anomalies might one day be classified as a disease and have a name (we call it HFD for now on baclofen4alcoholism.com), and alcohol susceptibility be a symptom of that disease. Let's wait and see.

Hope that made sense.
Take care
Pip
xx