Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

[thebigheads]

Hi everyone, I am on verge of receiving baclofen through 4rx and naltrexone through my doctor. My husband and I are trying to work out whether I should start the Sinclair Method or Dr Ameisen's first. Both seem to have their merits and disadvantages. Has anyone had success with one but not the other and what do you think the advantages of one over the other are? The naltrexone/sinclair method takes longer and involves perhaps drinking more than I feel is safe at moment? But this way can rewire the brain and only involves taking a pill when drinking. Baclofen you have to take everyday for rest of life, and if lose meds or supplier, could be in trouble. Has anyone had success moderating on Baclofen, (although not that that is necessarily my aim)? Any info that could help me make this decision would be amazing. Also, has anyone tried combining the 2 treatments, taking baclofen to calm anxiety and reduce amount of al drunk initially, and when do drink, take naltrexone the sinclair method way to rewire brain? All your posts on this subject have already been fantastic for me. It has given us hope! Thank u so much!!!!

[happy4once]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

Hi - I just completed my 4th month on The Sinclair Method and am very happy with the results. I am drinking at about 50% levels of what I used to and feel like I'm in control. Pre-Sinclair I was at 30+ units per week on average, with constant cravings. On bad weeks it was well above 30 units, on normal weeks I would drink 3/4 a bottle of wine each night - it was an effort to keep it at that level.

After 4 months I now have been having at least 3 AF days per week with zero effort. When I do drink, it is normally 2 glasses of wine at home with no thought of having more - slightly more if I go out in a social situation and the drinking is more spread out. Both situations I am still under control. I still have some moments when my drinking is not ideal, but these will level out over time.

I chose TSM because I do not want to be on medication forever and I wanted to get rid of my cravings so that I do not relapse if I stop and then start to drink again. It feels like it takes a long time to work through the de-addiction process with TSM when you are going through it, but now...4 months later...it was really just a tiny blip in my life. I'm happy with the Sinclair Method. I do not plan to be abstinent right now, but I hope my AF days per week continue to increase and that I get to a point where I do not think about drinking much at all. Generally, it looks like it takes 4-6+months to work through everything, depending on your drinking levels.

I have not tried Baclofen so can't comment, other than for the reasons above, Nal + Sinclair Method was the right choice for me.

Best of luck to you - you are lucky to have such a supporting husband and 2 wonderful tools (the Bac and the Nal) to choose from to help you get better.

[louise]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

I can't help much as I haven't tried Naltrexone. The advantage of it seems to be only having to take it when drinking, rewiring the brain, and, in your case, getting it from a dr. (although some have gotten baclofen from their dr.) I chose baclofen mainly because I wanted immediate help and because it sometimes helps with anxiety and eating disorders and reducing blood pressure, which seemed like a good bonus. But I hope I don't have to take it forever. I would check out drug interactions with any other medications you take and also look at the common side effects and see which ones seem more manageable to you. There are a couple people doing both - (Ocean and Marbella) - maybe they can help more.

[lenaleed]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

TSM for Me

The Sinclair Method is working for me after a total of about four months (six, interrupted by several weeks grave illness requiring rx pain meds; I'm fine now). I have not tried baclofen, although it is something I looked into before settling on TSM. For me, the deciding factor was the prospect of being on a fairly high dose of a muscle relaxant, daily, for life. TSM does take a few months -- longer than some of us expected -- but it is a true cure.

I can certainly see why some would choose baclofen. Cinders is a great example; she felt the life-or-death urgency to get immediate relief. I believe BillP was in the same boat.

There have been some misconceptions about TSM: First, Nal got stuck years ago with a "black box" liver warning due to one obesity study where five of twenty-six subjects getting 300 mg. showed elevated liver enzymes. That's FIVE TIMES the TSM dose. We at thesinclairmethod.com • Index page have not had anyone report liver problems.

Second, TSM is NOT necessarily a moderation tool. We are advised by Dr. Eskapa to defer that decision until we are far enough into the cure to assess whether we will choose to abstain or mod. In the studies, many whose goal was moderation at the outset simply lost interest in Al and didn't drink. SpringerRider has mentioned that at this point he sees himself going in that direction. The studies show that drinking continues to decline over three years to a mean of 9 units per week. Those who do abstain still carry a dose of naltrexone, just in case they decide to drink.

I am grateful that more and more of us seem to be finding Our Way Out. Thanks, R. Jewell. You're an inspiration and a lifesaver.

[beatle]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

I do believe the Sinclair Method is a real breakthrough in alcohol addiction treatment. The concept and the science behind it convince me that this is the answer for many people.

I chose not to do the Sinclair Method for several reasons. The first one is a result of my obsessive-compulsive personality... I did try Naltrexone for about a month. What I found was that I actually drank MORE on Naltrexone because it was harder to get the effect from alcohol that I desired. I needed to drink until I broke through the barrier, so to speak.

Also, like Cindi, I felt an urgency to resolving my problem, which has at times put me on the verge of losing my family, and I certainly have sacrificed a couple good jobs because of it (I was never fired, but compelled to resign as a direct result of my inability to perform).

I also don't like the idea of a medicine one has to take together with drinking in order for the method to work, and the combination of Naltrexone and drinking are essential to the cure. To me, this encourages drinking (as in, the cure won't work if you can manage to be abstinent for periods of time.)

And then, for me, Baclofen offers not just the prospect of sobriety (and indifference to alcohol) in a fairly short period of time, but it also works on my anxiety problems, which I had suffered from long before I ever had a sip of alcohol. To me, this is not just a bonus, but an essential part of curing my addiction, since I believe the anxiety problems are a key cause of my addiction, or at least the anxiety is intimately related to my addiction. Granted, not everyone has these issues.

The last point I want to make is that in fact some people do go off Baclofen after reaching their switch-off point, or at least where they feel in control of their alcohol cravings. These people keep Baclofen on hand for stressful situations, or situations in which they may be very tempted to drink. It seems to work on an as-needed basis, as it does for those who continue Baclofen at a low level, and increase their dosage for short periods as needed. This indicates to me that Baclofen does in fact, like TSM, alter the brain chemistry.

[louise]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

[QUOTE=lenaleed;664845] For me, the deciding factor was the prospect of being on a fairly high dose of a muscle relaxant, daily, for life.

Actually, even Dr. Ameison, who did initially take a very high dose of baclofen, is now on a low dose for maintenance (30-50mg). High doses for life are not needed.

[LaBear]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

Question

beatle;664921 wrote: I do believe the Sinclair Method is a real breakthrough in alcohol addiction treatment. The concept and the science behind it convince me that this is the answer for many people.

I chose not to do the Sinclair Method for several reasons. The first one is a result of my obsessive-compulsive personality... I did try Naltrexone for about a month. What I found was that I actually drank MORE on Naltrexone because it was harder to get the effect from alcohol that I desired. I needed to drink until I broke through the barrier, so to speak.

Also, like Cindi, I felt an urgency to resolving my problem, which has at times put me on the verge of losing my family, and I certainly have sacrificed a couple good jobs because of it (I was never fired, but compelled to resign as a direct result of my inability to perform).

I also don't like the idea of a medicine one has to take together with drinking in order for the method to work, and the combination of Naltrexone and drinking are essential to the cure. To me, this encourages drinking (as in, the cure won't work if you can manage to be abstinent for periods of time.)

And then, for me, Baclofen offers not just the prospect of sobriety (and indifference to alcohol) in a fairly short period of time, but it also works on my anxiety problems, which I had suffered from long before I ever had a sip of alcohol. To me, this is not just a bonus, but an essential part of curing my addiction, since I believe the anxiety problems are a key cause of my addiction, or at least the anxiety is intimately related to my addiction. Granted, not everyone has these issues.

The last point I want to make is that in fact some people do go off Baclofen after reaching their switch-off point, or at least where they feel in control of their alcohol cravings. These people keep Baclofen on hand for stressful situations, or situations in which they may be very tempted to drink. It seems to work on an as-needed basis, as it does for those who continue Baclofen at a low level, and increase their dosage for short periods as needed. This indicates to me that Baclofen does in fact, like TSM, alter the brain chemistry.

I notice you say that you use the Baclofen for anxiety. I am wondering if you are also taking benzo's for this issue. I was considering taking Baclofen because of the anxiety but I am on klonipin and am not sure if the two mix and know it is dangerous to get off of the benzo's without a very long taper. The jury is still out on weather TSM will work for us on benzo's so it is quite a delema. I am on the tsm method with my fingers crossed!

[beatle]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

I take Ativan (lorazepam) on an as-needed basis. I have never taken it long enough to have to taper off, but if you have been taking a benzo for even just a few weeks straight, you need to taper off slowly. It's not a big deal if you do it right. If you don't have a physician to guide you, you can get loads of information by experts in this field on the internet.

Ok, I am not a medical doctor, far from it, so this is just my own personal opinion. It is based on personal research, mostly on the internet:

I think that if you are in reasonably good health (nobody who drinks a lot is actually in good health!), that you can take the klonipin (clonazepam) and Bac at the same time as you begin Bac slowly and decrease the klonipin slowly. I also think the Bac will make it easier to wean yourself off the klonipin. I checked on 3 drug interaction checker sites and klonipin together with alcohol has a "severe" interaction warning. Klonipin with Baclofen has a "moderate" interaction warning. Baclofen with alcohol has a "moderate" interaction warning. This indicates that if you are still drinking, you are much safer on Baclofen than on klonipin. You can make your own conclusions from this.

As for combining klonipin and Naltrexone, there are no interactions warnings.

[lenaleed]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

naltrexone misperceptions

Beatle -- I'm trying not to sound like I'm harping, but your statement that you had to drink more to "drink through" the naltrexone risks giving the wrong impression about the pproper use of naltrexone. The true cure of the Sinclair method has nothing to do with day-to-day quantity consumed. Many folks practicing TSM find themselves drinking at or even above pre-TSM levels at some point in the first few weeks.

Naltrexone is NOT an effective anti-craving med. Most of us do not experience a diminished desire to drink or decreased buzz after the first week or two. It is typical to have diminished craving the first few days, then drinking returns to normal as the true work of the cure -- the rewiring of the brain -- takes place.

I'm not criticising John R for the information he gave -- I'm pointing out that it is inaccurate to say one becomes "immune" to naltrexone and I would not want others to be discouraged from trying TSM based on that inaccurate information. At least a few on this board got the mistaken impression that TSM was no longer working because their drinking levels went up after a few days. Similarly, it is common to be drinking, as you did, at pre-TSM levels after a month on nal. A cure, or even meaningful change, does not happen that quickly. One can only say TSM did not work for them if they noticed no change after several months.

I can see where some might not want to choose a method that takes a few months for real results. But the result is a true cure from alcohol addiction. Amazing things are happening at thesinclairmethod.com.

As with all the many choices made available here, it's important the choice be an informed one. It's just such a miracle that we have these choices.

Take care all. Lena

[beatle]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

lenaleed;665791 wrote: Beatle -- I'm trying not to sound like I'm harping, but your statement that you had to drink more to "drink through" the naltrexone risks giving the wrong impression about the pproper use of naltrexone. The true cure of the Sinclair method has nothing to do with day-to-day quantity consumed. Many folks practicing TSM find themselves drinking at or even above pre-TSM levels at some point in the first few weeks.

Naltrexone is NOT an effective anti-craving med. Most of us do not experience a diminished desire to drink or decreased buzz after the first week or two. It is typical to have diminished craving the first few days, then drinking returns to normal as the true work of the cure -- the rewiring of the brain -- takes place.

I'm not criticising John R for the information he gave -- I'm pointing out that it is inaccurate and I would not want others to be discouraged from trying TSM based on that inaccurate information. At least a few on this board got the mistaken impression that TSM was no longer working because their drinking levels went up after a few days. Similarly, it is common to be drinking, as you did, at pre-TSM levels after a month on nal. A cure, or even meaningful change, does not happen that quickly. One can only say TSM did not work for them if they noticed no change after several months.

I can see where some might not want to choose a method that takes a few months for real results. But the result is a true cure from alcohol addiction. Amazing things are happening at thesinclairmethod.com.

As with all the many choices made available here, it's important the choice be an informed one. It's just such a miracle that we have these choices.

Take care all. Lena

I agree with you 100%, Lena, and I thank you for clarifying this to those who might be misled or confused about the Sinclair Method.

I might not have made myself clear-- what I meant was that because I was drinking more and not less at first, I quit. I only learned about the Sinclair method after my first try at Naltrexone, and I did a lot of research on it and I do believe, as I've previously said, it is a breakthrough in addiction treatment (just as Baclofen is).

However, as you say, it takes months to get results, and in the meantime, drinking is not in any way discouraged, and indeed, many keep drinking for months, albeit usually in smaller amounts. I have come to such a critical stage in my life and my alcoholism that I do not think I can survive a few more months of drinking, even as part of a long-term cure. We all must individually weigh all factors and make decisions based on them. That said, I am extremely happy for those of you who are working through the Sinclair protocol and I believe it will work for most of you.

Yes, Lena, it is a miracle that we have these choices. Unfortunately, most people DON'T have these choices; these groundbreaking treatments are generally unknown, ignored, shunned or suppressed by the vast majority of physicians and the medical community in general.

I hope your efforts, all of you forging through on this, will result in a change in addiction treatment in the future. I hope the same for Baclofen. We deserve it, and so do the millions who don't have access to this knowledge or these treatments.

[lenaleed]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

Well said, Beatle. Of course they're your efforts as well. All of us together.

[beatle]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

Thank you Lena... yes, we are all in this together. We are forging the frontiers.

Another thing I should have mentioned, but I suppose it was implicit, is that not only are millions of people with alcohol problems who could be helped suffering today, but there are also countless numbers who have died because of this ignorance, resistance, and lack of action on the part of the medical community. Calling it tragic is an understatement.

[mandytyer]

Baclofen or Sinclair Method?

I am totally of your opinion. People tend to under estimate such problems like alcohol or drug abuse.

I used to have a friend that died because of her alcohol problem. And she was only twenty. I just, can't forget how that car just rolled over her. She was a mess, a complete mess and I could never forget her, but if people would have opened up their eyes, above all her parents, she would have never got in such a situation. Every time I think about that I start to shake and freeze, it is a really horribly stressful situation that I am facing and I just cannot get it over with without the medicine I ordered with my psychologist's advice. Ultracet really helped me out, but it is the moment I think about her that makes me suffer the most, because she would have had a beautiful life, if she just would have faced her problems like an adult and not like a child.