Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

[Lo0p]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Anna B;704858 wrote: Sorry, but can we please just end this and be happy for each other that we've all found different things that work for us? Of course, everyone is free to say whatever they want but it just seems like this whole bac vs. TSM thing is getting personal and I just don't get it.

Please don't attack me for putting this out there.

There are no attacks going on here. To me it sounds like Lusus knows something that I don't. I'm just begging him for information. Please...educate me.

[Zman]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Hi havent posted or been in the boards recently, as Ive been having serious Bac issues. The issues have gotten bad enough (very weird side effects which arent going away no matter how long I stay at the same dose) that i think TSM is the only option I have left.

So I have one last question before I take the plunge: does Nal have any adverse effect, regardless of how small, on the liver?

This is not an assertion, it is just a question. I'm not trying to misinform anyone, just trying to inform myself. I'm sure I could find an answer on this issue somewhere, but dont have the time these days to do the research on the boards. I ask because of Marb's post relating to her liver issues and side effects from Nal.

Thanks

[lenaleed]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

nal/liver

Nice to see you back here zman. Here's the deal with naltrexone and the liver.

Naltrexone got stuck with what's called a "black box" warning to prescribing doctors to check for liver function prior to prescribing. Here's why, according to the package insert:

"Evidence of the hepatoxic potential of naltrexone is derived primarily from a placebo controlled study in which naltrexone-hydrochloride was administered to obese subjects at a dose approximately five-fold [should read six-fold] the recommended dose for the blockade of opiate receptors (300 mg). In that study, 5 of 26 naltrexone recipients delevoped elevated [liver enzymes]."

The insert says naltrexone is "contraindicated in acute hepatitis or liver failure", which would be true of pretty much any drug metabolized by the liver.

So unless your liver is already about completely shot, there is no need for worry about 50 mg naltrexone at all. And think what a healthy liver you'll have when you're not beating it up with alcohol anymore! The liver is actually capable of regenerating healthy tissue.

Now, zman, remember to have patience on TSM. We'll support you through the process. The usual progression is an immediate drop in drinking, which wears off after a few days. Then, a few weeks in, many of us experience an uptick in drinking -- some beyond pre-TSM levels. This is called an extinction burst. Think of the bird, taught he will get a pellet of food when he pecks a lever. One day, the pellet of food does not arrive. For awhile the bird pecks frantically at the lever until he gives up. Our brain does the same thing (on an unconscious level) when it no longer gets the endorphin rush from drinking. But then the brain finally gives up. That is when the alcohol consumption drops dramatically or stops.

Can you order the book from Amazon or Barnes & Noble in Dubai? If not, can someone stateside order it and send it to you? Some of the chapters are on thesinclairmethod.com; Index page, as is a TON of info. It is a lot easier to have that all-important patience if you understand what's going on. So learn all you can. And when you visit the board, notice that the list of the Cured is growing, and several are well on their way.

You'll be joining them in a few months.

[Zman]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Thanks Lena.

I am prepared to have plently of patience. I would be happy if i see some change in the first 6 months or so.

When did you start feeling a change and becoming convinced the stuff was working?

No bookshops sell it here, as technically, Dubai is supposed to be a dry state. Amazon only delivers certain items to Dubai, and the book isnt one of them. Ill be sure to read the chapters at the TSM site.

Thanks,

Zman

[happy4once]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Hi Zman - I haven't checked over at the TSM site to see if you posted something similar and got replies, but I can give you my thoughts for what they are worth...

First - I think everyone so far reacts differently to Nal. I had an immediate decrease in cravings...then it spiked back up then it went down again. At no point, however, did I reach pre-sinclair craving levels which was great. I think my worst weeks were at the 2 1/2 to 3 month mark and I think my drinking levels leveled out to what I consider a safe level at around week 19 and 20. I now have weeks where I don't drink at all...and weeks where when I do drink, it's 1 or 2 and then I'm done. The reason I consider this a cure is that prior to this, if I had 1 or 2 drinks after being AF for awhile, I would spiral immediately back into nightly drinking. I no longer feel the need to do that. I am controlled when I'm out with friends (drink less than they do) and no longer drink nightly on my own. I also feel much less depressed & anxious than I have in years simply from getting the alcohol out of my system and having multiple days of no medication in my system which I like.

The waiting for the cure can be very difficult - don't underestimate that and use the TSM site to get through it. You will need the help and support of everyone there and here as well. The first few weeks on Nal you may become nauseous and a little spacey, but it goes away and does not return. It helps to eat prior to taking the pill and don't forget to cut the pill in half or even in quarters until you are used to it.

Best of luck to you - let us know how you are doing Zman.

[lenaleed]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Zman -- I agree with everything Happy said. And, to answer your question to me, things are happening very quickly for me now. I have an unusual timeline because a few weeks in to TSM, just when I began to notice a drop in drinking, I got a very serious intestinal infection, requiring two surgeries. So I had to be off nal for several weeks due to the opiate pain meds. I have a total of about twenty weeks behind me and the last few days have been very big indeed. My craving and drinking have dropped quite suddenly and dramatically, and I enjoyed three alcohol free days for the first time in years (hot counting in the hospital). Soon I will be joining the others on the Cured list on the TSM board. I first found out about TSM on this site and am so happy to share my experience. I am another one who found MyWayOut!

[Lenore]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Zman;705343 wrote: Hi havent posted or been in the boards recently, as Ive been having serious Bac issues. The issues have gotten bad enough (very weird side effects which arent going away no matter how long I stay at the same dose) that i think TSM is the only option I have left.

So I have one last question before I take the plunge: does Nal have any adverse effect, regardless of how small, on the liver?

This is not an assertion, it is just a question. I'm not trying to misinform anyone, just trying to inform myself. I'm sure I could find an answer on this issue somewhere, but dont have the time these days to do the research on the boards. I ask because of Marb's post relating to her liver issues and side effects from Nal.

Thanks

I had blood work done before going on Nal...it just seems to be a good idea for anyone starting off. Good luck to you!

[Cinders]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Lena,

Yay!! I know how difficult a course it is to use Naltrexone to sober up. For the truly desperate, 21 or so weeks is a long, long time.

Although, if you do nothing and keep drinking, 21 weeks would go by in a blur and you have gotten nowhere.

I am very proud of all of you for sticking it out and getting to the cured state.

I am very happy for you, Lena.

Love,
Cindi

[happy4once]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Hi Cinders - I wanted to thank you for the nice post you left over at TSM for me as well : ). So very nice to have people cheering us on since it is a bit frustrating at times.

Lena - congrats on the 3 days AF - I am happy for you as well! Your cure is just around the corner, what a nice cap that will be to this thread : ).

[lenaleed]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Thanks, Happy.

Cindi, you have such a generous spirit. As you continue your own path of success, I find it touching that you take time to care about and encourage the progress of others.

Zman, Lenore has a point about the bloodwork. When we are ordering online instead of taking meds under medical supervision, it is wise to take such precautions. Not everyone does, I know.

[thebigheads]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

Marbella, have u tried Nalmefene, Naltrexone's sister drug? I think Eskapa says it is processed through kidneys. If the nausea u experienced taking higher dose of Naltrexone was caused by your liver's inability to process it, Nalmefene might be the answer?

[beatle]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

I think this is VERY interesting!

So, I'm a little too tired (lazy) to reread this thread, but I posted an abstract on a separate thread about combining Nal with Bac. I thought it was VERY intersting, but apparently nobody else did, as not a single person responded to that thread. I'm thinking that either it is old news (so, it would be nice if somebody told me that -- I'm a big girl (metaphorically, that is)), or it might have been in the presentation.

So, never one to take no for an answer: I am reposting it on this thread.c:

Abstract
Recent surveys suggest that positive outcomes in the pharmacotherapy of alcoholism may be obtained through drug combinations. The present study evaluated the effect of the combination of the opioid receptor antagonist, naltrexone, with the GABAB receptor agonist, baclofen, on the acquisition of alcohol drinking behavior in Sardinian alcohol-preferring (sP) rats. Rats were treated with either saline, 0.5 mg/kg naltrexone, 1 mg/kg baclofen, or 0.5 mg/kg naltrexone plus 1 mg/kg baclofen once a day for 10 days. Alcohol was offered immediately after the first drug injection under the 2-bottle regimen. Alcohol intake in saline-treated rats rose to 5?6 g/kg/day within a few days, indicative of a rapid acquisition of alcohol drinking behavior. Neither naltrexone nor baclofen, when given alone, affected alcohol drinking behavior. In contrast, the drug combination resulted in a significant reduction in daily alcohol intake and retardation in the acquisition of alcohol drinking behavior. These results suggest that combination of naltrexone plus baclofen may result in a synergistic reduction in alcohol intake in sP rats. These results are discussed in terms of naltrexone and baclofen exerting a concomitant and reciprocally potentiating inhibitory action on alcohol-induced activation of mesolimbic dopamine transmission.

[beatle]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

bumping this yet again... just because it seems there is interest

[Lo0p]

Baclofen with Naltrexone (TSM)

That's what I'm doing right now. It's going well so far, I'll keep up with updates.