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    #16
    Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

    naltrexone package insert/integrated neuroscience

    DuPont authored the package insert, which is the prescribing info for doctors. DuPont's patent on naltrexone has since expired, but of course that insert is still the same for all brand-name and generic naltrexone.

    The insert is set out in the chapter For Medical Professionals in Eskapa, pp. 209-231, and includes comments/explanation/rebuttal by Eskapa. Without Dr. Eskapa's comments, the insert is murky and confusing as to how naltrexone supposedly works for alcoholism, except to say that some clinical trials reported a reduction in consumption and relapse after twelve weeks, which is the recommended course of treatment. So the clear implication is that, according to the package for alcoholism treatment, nal is an anti-craving med to aid as part of a comprehensive program in achieving abstinence. How sad.

    There's a fascinating back story here, set out in Eskapa's book (at 61-62 and App. C). Sinclair got a patent on his research in behalf of his employer (a Finnish gov't agency), mainly to try to work w/ DuPont to have input into the prescribing information. Dupont ended up end-running him and his patent by using prescribing info based on research other than Sinclair's -- in other words, the anti-craving instructions we see now. That left Sinclair to wonder whether his patent strategy -- calculated to spread the word about TSM -- backfired. Dupont evidently felt it could sell more of its then-patented med without havig to also sell such an unconventional alcoholism treatment.

    There are high-priced treatment modalities that use naltrexone. This is a shame, since the COMBINE study showed naltrexone, used properly (i.e. TSM), works WITHOUT counseling beyond minimal counseling focused on compliance.

    Here is a New York Times article describing how naltrexone now may be prescribed by primary care physician, as primary and not adjunct treatment for alcoholism. Primary Care for Alcoholics - New York Times

    And here is a great FREE self-administered CBT program, shown to be effective, for those who feel they could use it. MoodGYM: Welcome Its language is sort of geared toward the younger set but is has been shown effective for all ages.

    Of course, many of us have co-occurring mental health issues and if you have been in treatment for them, then by all means continue. But many of us developed mental health issues arising out of our struggle with alcohol, and these tend to resolve as our drinking and our lives get under control. Sinclair found that his subjects, administered the Beck Depression Inventory at the onset of treatment and again after three months, showed vast improvement with naltrexone the only modality. (Note: naltrexone itself has no psychoactive properties)

    Of course there is the exception that proves the rule. Some on this board have said naltrexone works for them as an anti-craving med. No med is 100 % ineffective. Many have also said it has "worn off" after a while. We all have choices to make for ourselves. Hopefully they are based on accurate information.

    LoOp is correct: Any study showing even low efficacy of naltrexone for traditional alcoholism treatment is one in which the subjects, long-term, were initially non-compliant with directions to abstain but eventually improved. In other words, they inadvertantly followed TSM.

    As with baclofen, many of us are starting to get the result we expected with TSM, for the cost of a paperback book and a generic prescription medication.

    Comment


      #17
      Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

      Elpis;703685 wrote: Would you accept an article published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) to be "evidence?. Extended a bit, will you accept articles from peer-reviewed scientific journals to be "evidence"? Or how about this: how do you define ?evidence??

      E-
      I'm sorry, let me answer your questions directly.

      For the first two my answers are both: Yes, I would call it evidence but I would not call it conclusive.

      For the last: hmm, any objectively observed recorded effect.

      Now I'll go to to dictionary.com to see how wrong I am.

      ev⋅i⋅dence
        /ˈɛvɪdəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ev-i-duhns] Show IPA noun, verb, -denced, -denc⋅ing.

      ?noun
      1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
      2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
      3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

      Mine's probably okay but applies to this situation and leaves out other types, like physical evidence e.g. a gun
      :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
      :what?:
      sigpic
      Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

      Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




      Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
      A Forum
      Trolls need not apply

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        #18
        Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

        Elpis;702509 wrote: I must disagree with Lo0P. While it is true that using the Sinclair method you must drink while taking nal, it is not true that you must drink to benefit from nal. All of the studies done (so far as I know) demonstrating the effectiveness of nal in fighting alcoholic cravings were done on abstinent alcoholics.

        I, for one, have been very successful taking nal and NOT drinking.

        E-
        Scientific research shows quite the opposition. The COMBINE Study, one of the US Studies on the use of Naltrexone in alcoholism showed that Naltrexone combined with abstinence was no better than placebo combined with abstanced. Conversely, it showed that Naltrexone combined with alcohol consumption resulted in the greatest decreases in drinking of all studies categories.

        Effects of alcoholism typology on response to nalt...[Alcohol Clin Exp Res. 2009] - PubMed Result

        Q

        Comment


          #19
          Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

          Starting Naltrexone on Monday . . .

          Do you need to take the medication an hour before drinking or can you take it in the morning? Does it matter?

          Comment


            #20
            Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

            Naltrexone plus drinking = Cure for Alcoholism

            LoOp, Lena and Q are absolutely correct: the studies show overwhelmingly that naltrexone used with abstinence DOES NOT WORK. The overwhelming evidence contained in the studies annotated by LoOp above, show that naltrexone taken with abstinence is less effective than a placebo taken with abstinence in preventing relapse. In addition, as Lena correctly notes, the instructions contained in the naltrexone insert are based upon an expired patent held by Dupont, in which they relied on earlier, flawed studies, as explained by Dr. Eskapa and Dr. Sinclair in the book, The Cure For Alcoholism. In addition, naltrexone taken while drinking has cured thousands in Finland in a program pioneered by Dr. Sinclair. The cure rate is 78% and ten percent of those who failed did not follow the rule of taking naltrexone at least one hour before drinking every time you drink. (To answer the above-posted question, you can take 50 mg of nal in the morning and your opiate receptors will be blocked for 24 hours.)

            As overwhelmingly persuasive as the studies are in showing that taking naltrexone while drinking (TSM) cures the addiction, even more compelling for me are my personal experiences with naltrexone, together with the overwhelming majority of the members at The Sinclair Method.com message board. I am about three months into the program and I have sharply reduced my cravings and my consumption. Of more importance to me than pure numbers, I have gone from having weekly blackouts and two-day hangovers to no blackouts, rare hangovers and complete control while drinking. I used to drink wildly on the weekends and act like a drunk, but those days are long gone since starting TSM. I am also interacting daily with people on the TSM message board who are being cured on a regular basis. In the past few weeks alone we have nine members who have declared themselves completely free of their alcohol addiction through TSM. If you go to the site you can read their stories for yourselves. We have over 200 members and almost everybody is reporting tremendous improvement in both reduced consumption, reduced craving and reduced drunken behavior. If you are struggling with alcoholism, taking this pill one hour before drinking is a miracle cure that is simple, safe, cheap and works for the vast majority who try it. And my testimony, as well as everyone else's, is entirely from the heart. None of us are getting paid to tout TSM. The TSM message board is free and non-profit. We all just know what it's like to suffer and want to prevent needless suffering because TSM is a highly effective cure for alcoholism.

            Comment


              #21
              Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

              sunny58;703737 wrote: Do you need to take the medication an hour before drinking or can you take it in the morning? Does it matter?
              Here is a link to a discussion on that subject: thesinclairmethod.com • View topic - How important is the hour
              :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
              :what?:
              sigpic
              Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

              Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




              Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
              A Forum
              Trolls need not apply

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                #22
                Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

                Lo0p;703722 wrote: I'm sorry, let me answer your questions directly.

                For the first two my answers are both: Yes, I would call it evidence but I would not call it conclusive.
                Actually, I take that back. In the journals and articles I think that the things they discussing or reviewing (like the results of studies) are likely to be evidence, but not the journals and articles in and of themselves.
                :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
                :what?:
                sigpic
                Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

                Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




                Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
                A Forum
                Trolls need not apply

                Comment


                  #23
                  Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

                  You can talk about evidence and statistics all day long, but in the end what matters is what effect does The Sinclair Method have on real people's lives.

                  Yesterday I announced on thesinclairmethod.com that after 25+ years of alcoholic misery, I have been cured by The Sinclair Method. Prior to this I tried nearly everything: willpower, religion, 12 steps, Rational Recovery, My Way Out, topamax. etc.

                  I am only one in a line of people recently cured (and I use that term with full knowledge of what it means) by TSM. And I will not be the last; you can see the signs of cure in many of the TSM followers there.

                  The Sinclair Method is an out and out miracle, simply put. It has saved my life, and it will save the lives of many others, especially when word gets out that this is a REAL cure.

                  Be wary of contempt prior to investigation, as ignorance in the area of TSM has the potential to cause untold suffering for millions of alcoholics. If you really want to discuss the merits of TSM then dig deep, get all the facts, hear the stories, and hear the words of someone who's life has literally been saved by The Sinclair Method.

                  Debating whether TSM works is like debating whether life rings work while a man is drowning. Enough - throw him the line already!

                  Firebird
                  nfire:

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

                    Well I think as another poster has said, if it works for you, it works. Evidence one way or another is simply not helpful to anyone. Do what you do. I am AF now just taking the Nal and things are working out fine... for now. If I fall off the wagon again then I will give TSM a try.

                    E-

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

                      That sounds like a safe and sensible plan, Elpis. If you do start TSM, we NEVER will say,"I told you so." Just jump right on in, here and at thesinclairmethod.com; Index page.

                      As I said in an earlier post, no medication is 100% ineffective. For now at least it's working for you. Best wishes for continued success in remaining comfortably alcohol-free. I feel so blessed to have found this site each time I learn of another member who has found His or Her Way Out!!

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

                        lenaleed;705298 wrote: I feel so blessed to have found this site each time I learn of another member who has found His or Her Way Out!!
                        AMEN!!!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

                          Have you been able to stop drinking completely?

                          That is my goal. Vivitrol definitely works by making me consume MUCH less than I ever would.... I can't tolerate it. I even end up pouring most of my drinks out. Yet, my ultimate goal is to be AF. Have you stopped altogether or just been able to manage it?

                          Thanks for any info you have,
                          Renee

                          minneapolisnick;703776 wrote: LoOp, Lena and Q are absolutely correct: the studies show overwhelmingly that naltrexone used with abstinence DOES NOT WORK. The overwhelming evidence contained in the studies annotated by LoOp above, show that naltrexone taken with abstinence is less effective than a placebo taken with abstinence in preventing relapse. In addition, as Lena correctly notes, the instructions contained in the naltrexone insert are based upon an expired patent held by Dupont, in which they relied on earlier, flawed studies, as explained by Dr. Eskapa and Dr. Sinclair in the book, The Cure For Alcoholism. In addition, naltrexone taken while drinking has cured thousands in Finland in a program pioneered by Dr. Sinclair. The cure rate is 78% and ten percent of those who failed did not follow the rule of taking naltrexone at least one hour before drinking every time you drink. (To answer the above-posted question, you can take 50 mg of nal in the morning and your opiate receptors will be blocked for 24 hours.)

                          As overwhelmingly persuasive as the studies are in showing that taking naltrexone while drinking (TSM) cures the addiction, even more compelling for me are my personal experiences with naltrexone, together with the overwhelming majority of the members at The Sinclair Method.com message board. I am about three months into the program and I have sharply reduced my cravings and my consumption. Of more importance to me than pure numbers, I have gone from having weekly blackouts and two-day hangovers to no blackouts, rare hangovers and complete control while drinking. I used to drink wildly on the weekends and act like a drunk, but those days are long gone since starting TSM. I am also interacting daily with people on the TSM message board who are being cured on a regular basis. In the past few weeks alone we have nine members who have declared themselves completely free of their alcohol addiction through TSM. If you go to the site you can read their stories for yourselves. We have over 200 members and almost everybody is reporting tremendous improvement in both reduced consumption, reduced craving and reduced drunken behavior. If you are struggling with alcoholism, taking this pill one hour before drinking is a miracle cure that is simple, safe, cheap and works for the vast majority who try it. And my testimony, as well as everyone else's, is entirely from the heart. None of us are getting paid to tout TSM. The TSM message board is free and non-profit. We all just know what it's like to suffer and want to prevent needless suffering because TSM is a highly effective cure for alcoholism.
                          The Universe stirs up our comfortable nests, and pushes us over the edge of them, forcing us to use out wings...

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

                            I had a meeting earlier today in which vivitrol was suggested as an idea for me. It sounds like something I would definitely be interested in. Was told that if I can not abstain for 3-5 days before my injection, that I will have to do a supervised detox and possibly take anabuse (I think that's what i called). I'm 26, in good health aside from elevated liver enzymes, but have been abusing the last four-five years, and quite heavily the last year as way of dealing with personal issues..

                            Is detox as bad as it is made out to be? I mean the violent sickness, convulsions, cold sweats, etc... I guess it really depends on the person and the stage of abuse their in.

                            Anyways, glad I found this site. Thanks in advance for any help

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                              #29
                              Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

                              Detox....

                              Normally, they make you feel very comfortable during detox. My experience with it as a patient and as a Counselor is that they usually give you Librium (which is a benzodiazepine), vitamins, and clonodine (which is a blood pressure med given for detox). They also check your vital signs quite frequently to make sure you are okay.

                              I had to go to the hospital. A man from my group therapy tried to detox on his own and ended up having a grand mal seizure right at the treatment center. You can DIE from these seizures, and once you have one you are more likely to have another. So please make sure you detox safely at a hospital or detox center.
                              The Universe stirs up our comfortable nests, and pushes us over the edge of them, forcing us to use out wings...

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Has anyone tried Vivitrol?

                                If you don't want to do Sinclair Method that's one thing, but going through detox prior to naltrexone is quite another. Whoever is treating you is referring to the instructions for using naltrexone for opiate addiction. Hundreds of us here and at the TSM board drink daily on naltrexone. There is a wealth of information here. I pray you educate yourself before you make this critical decision.

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