Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

[colery]

Hi,

I SO want to be off of this roler coaster. I have been toying with antabuse for along time using it to stay off the nightly wine for about 4 days (I only take 1/4 pill) then drink too much and repeat the cycle. Now I find on the day after drinking I feel horrible...worse than I used too. Its not the headache, but rather huge gassy/burpy feeling, anxiety and just general unease so my whole day is shot. THen 5pm rolls around and the rest is history.

ANYWAY, on to my question. I either need to A) Go for the antabuse regularly and hope I change permanently after say a year b/c I do not want to be on this for life or B) Sinclair method to hopefully take away the craving and possibly be AF or "I could take it or leave it". One involves drinking, the other not so I need to decide. I saw the Sinclair thread but it looks like a long time since posts and not sure what the consensus is ...does it really work for most and how long? Will I wind up being worse off because I won't be taking my antabuse to get at least the 4 days of sobriety a week and may be drinking everyday with the NAL? I have to do something...cannot function like this and the whole drinking dilemma is taking up so much gray matter it's eclipsing so many other things I probably should be working on.

You guys are so brave and I applaud your efforts. I am deeply appreciative of any input as I want to place an order for something this week!

Thanks Again,
Colery

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" Rom 5:8

[shirazgirl]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

Hi Colery,
I tried the Sinclair method for a while. Although it worked that it took the pleasure away from drinking, I did find the "breaking point" where I could drink enough to get a buzz. That was usually twice as much as I regularly drink. That...not so much fun the next day. It also seemed to take pleasure away from anything I was doing at that time too...bowling, watching a game, going to the race, etc. as the receptors don't necessarily just drinking, but pleasure in general. I gave up after four weeks.

I have been sober since 10/3 of this year. How? I just got sick of hating myself. That was it. I didn't want any other options. Suffering through the early days makes me remember it's not where I want to go back. I'm still new but fighting.... hope this helps!

[SpringerRider]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

shirazgirl;753864 wrote: I gave up after four weeks.

I have been sober since 10/3 of this year. How? I just got sick of hating myself. That was it. I didn't want any other options. Suffering through the early days makes me remember it's not where I want to go back. I'm still new but fighting.... hope this helps!

However you get there is great. I have worked the Sinclair Method since Jan 13th. I declared myself cured May 13, 2009. I stand behind that assessment 100% now. I drink rarely, and only a few when I do but I do so naturally and without effort. Alcohol works for me much as it does for your non-addicted friends whom drank in ways you are not able to comprehend. I have become one of them - physiologically.

You are correct in that Naltrexone cannot target only the instance of drinking but that is a small price to pay to get where I am. Remember, you are not to take Nal daily. Only one hour before you drink. Eventually your drinking will diminish to a point where a one month supply of Naltrexone last six months or more.

[Claremont]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

The Sinclair Method has an 80% success rate when used correctly. Check out thesinclairmethod.com forums. Tons of information to answer your questions as well as strictly Sinclair on this site.

I am waiting for my Nal - wish you luck

C

[stellar]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

i found this information helpful on naltrexone

The Cure for Alcoholism

click on "about the book" to see excerpts from it

[Blondemerlot]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

Ok-my experience is as follows. Started Nal on 6/23/09.I was still taking zanax nightly.Detoxed from zanax and began taking Ambien for insomnia. On the 17th week (Oct. 30th)could not take more then several sips of wine.No desire,no craving--actually it is unappealing.
I am cured!!!!Now,do I continue for life to take the Nal one hour before I drink? I read Eskapa's book but it is not definite.
Good luck to all of you and please follow the instructions.I never,ever thought that I would take a sip of wine and put it down!!
Best of Health!

[Lenore]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

That's the plan.

[aurora borialis]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

I stand behind Springrider totally. I have been cured for a long time and I rarely drink at all. If I do I take my pill and naturally things go from there. I can tell you in all honesty that I am probably the least problem drinker in my group and I used to be the worst and that has been a huge adjustment for them. But not for me and that is the beauty of the Sinclair method.

[lenaleed]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

Yes, you do take it for life, but once your are cured, that's not very often. For some on our board, that's once every few days, week, couple of weeks, etc. It innoculates you against getting re-addicted. If you drink without it, you will fin yourself getting addicted to alcohol again.

[beatle]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

Questions about Bac and Nal

I'm wondering: what if you got yourself sober with Baclofen and stayed AF for a while, say 3 months, and then, you decided you wanted to drink occasionally, but you ALWAYS took Naltrexone before you drank?

Here's another question. Why doesn't Baclofen work the same as Naltrexone (in changing the brain chemistry, or whatever it is)? Or maybe it does? I mean, Baclofen diminishes the cravings and the pleasure response to alcohol. Why shouldn't baclofen, taken together with continued drinking, accomplish the same thing as Naltrexone? I'm sure there is a scientific answer to this... and I'm very curious about it.

[Lo0p]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

beatle;767582 wrote: I'm wondering: what if you got yourself sober with Baclofen and stayed AF for a while, say 3 months, and then, you decided you wanted to drink occasionally, but you ALWAYS took Naltrexone before you drank?

Here's another question. Why doesn't Baclofen work the same as Naltrexone (in changing the brain chemistry, or whatever it is)? Or maybe it does? I mean, Baclofen diminishes the cravings and the pleasure response to alcohol. Why shouldn't baclofen, taken together with continued drinking, accomplish the same thing as Naltrexone? I'm sure there is a scientific answer to this... and I'm very curious about it.

That's pretty much what I'm doing. 4 1/2 drinks so far this week and I popped my nal before each and every one.

They affect different neurotransmitter systems.

I might eat my words later on some of the finer technical points in this explanation but this is how I see it:

Craving can be actually be seen as increased mesolimbic dopamine transmission in the amygdala (I think). This is shown in that youtube clip we've seen lately where baclofen acts to directly inhibit this activity.

This increased activity (craving) is caused by our learned responses to alcohol cues being reinforced over the years by endorphins. Every time we drink and get positive reinforcement from our opioidergic system our brains actually go back and strengthen the neurons and synapses that were fired immediately preceding our drinking and the release of the endorphins. Naltrexone via TSM prevents craving by disassociating drinking from reward, actually removing the maladaptive neuronal network that causes the increased dopamine activity in the first place. This effect is permanent.

Baclofen prevents craving directly but with no mechanism to affect it permanently. Where as TSM affects craving indirectly, over time, but permanently.

I hope I'm right because my life is riding on it! :H

[beatle]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

Thank you Lo0p. That's pretty much what I was after... but... (there's always a but)

So, the simple answer is "They affect different neurotransmitter systems", if I haven't misunderstood.

In other words, there IS a specific difference in their specific actions on the brain.. but what about the results?

(Bear with me here) Because in my experience Baclofen does disassociate drinking from reward -- perhaps not quite as much as Naltrexone...? but it definitely does disassociate it not just by means of decreasing desire, but also by diminishing returns (couldn't resist that one). So, to me, the bac and nal processes still look similar, and it seems that the results could be the same, even if the exact chemical or neurotransmitter processes might differ.

Like nal, bac can be reduced or eliminated with time and then taken on an as-need basis.

In other words: how different are they in terms of long-term results? And why?

[Lo0p]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

The difference is the super strengthened neural network that is the addiction remains if you abstain from alcohol be it via cold turkey or baclofen or whatever. It never goes away.

This is what AA'ers refer to as "the sleeping tiger doing push-ups." Even someone who's abstinent for ten years is still "only one drink away." While someone who's abstinent for that long almost never has to deal with cravings anymore if they give in to one they will awaken the "tiger," or whatever you want to call it. The addiction is still there.

This is from Dr. Phill's 'Thought of the Day' part of his website:

"Ciderman Returns - the not so super superhero

Had a really bad day yesterday. Everything just seemed to go wrong. Worst of all, due to postal problems here, I had run out Baclofen. It finally came this morning.

Last night, I just lost it, and dived into a bit of a cider binge. I hated myself whilst I was doing it, and really wish I hadn't.

I cannot remember the last time I did anything like that. It would have been the last time I ran out. Couple of months ago at least. I've got a shocking hangover. I just cannot take drink anymore.

Anyway, it has acted as aversion therapy. God I feel rough!!

And thank God for Baclofen. I've had my 50mg morning dose and am feeling much better already.

Never run out of Baclofen, or else you might turn back into Ciderman."

Dr. Ameisen said he plans on taking baclofen for the rest of his life and if he reduces his dose the cravings come back. This makes perfect sense as there is no mechanism by which baclofen removes the addiction from the brain. This is precisely what TSM does. It actually physically dismantles the neuronal network that is the addiction. Someone who is cured via TSM can have a drink without naltrexone and will not be at risk for a relapse, because they are not an alcoholic anymore. If you remove the medication there are no cravings. That is how they are different.

[Lo0p]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

Craving (the increased activity in the mesolimbic dopaminergic system) is just a symptom of the disease.

Baclofen suppresses this symptom, quite effectively, but doesn't affect the disease. TSM doesn't affect this symptom directly it removes the disease, thereby relieving the symptom.

[lenaleed]

Sinclair method works or not? forget antabuse...

Here's an attempt at an analogy: Baclofen is much like taking insulin for life to manage blood sugar, but it never really is a cure, even if symptoms are completely managed. Naltrexone is more like a vaccination that takes a course of inoculations to build up immunity, then a booster each time you will be exposed to the pathogen.

That's why a cocktail of baclofen and naltrexone has such potential. It's not necessary to drink yourself under the table each drinking session for naltrexone to work; Sinclair and Eskapa emphasize that the number of drinking sessions what matters, not the quantity consumed per session. If baclofen could be used to quickly attain moderate consumption, it would save several weeks or even months of the health risks of heavy drinking as the naltrexone dismantles the neural pathways. Then it might not be necessary to take baclofen for life. One would still have to take naltrexone for life, but only before drinking, which gets less and less frequent. And unlike baclofen, naltrexone has no mood-altering or cns effects, so it's not bothersome to continue taking.

The safety of drinking while on baclofen is a concern. We were worried about Lo0p when he started on baclofen, but he made it through. Anyone who does it has to be very,very careful.

Baclofen also can be valuable for the few whose drinking has little or no tie to the opioidergic system, but instead are driven to drink solely due to GABA deficits. These, along with the noncompliant and a few others, are among the 20% for whom the Sinclair method will not be effective.