OMG I am so angry !!

[Brave Hearted]

Sorry guy I am just so mad ! just read a post in general discussion for a guy who is slating that drugs can help cure an addiction ahhhhhhh why do poeple post these things without researching it ???? it can put people off trying something that may make a huge differance to them (like it has to me and many of my friends on here ) Sorry guys just needed to rant . I have posted back to him telling him my feelings ! It would appear he is doing AA which I applaud and would never knock so I did not take kindly to him knocking anybody who is going down the meds route !

[IAD]

OMG I am so angry !!

Drugs curing addication......( That's like burning your barn down to get rid of rats ! Ha!) Drugs can asset you with your cravings.....but it's you that can take care of the addication. Your will power, and decesions will make you AF. IAD

[BEAR]

OMG I am so angry !!

HOW DO I START A POST? I'M NEW AND CANNOT REMEMBER HOW TO DO THIS ONLY POSTED 1 TIME

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP

[Brave Hearted]

OMG I am so angry !!

Hi bear you go to the top of any dissusion group and you will see a thing that say new thread click on that and away you go ! and take the caps lock off too capital letters is shouting lol happy posting !

[bernard]

OMG I am so angry !!

Brave Hearted;757183 wrote: a guy who is slating that drugs can help cure an addiction

(I think you meant cannot, not can, help cure an addiction.)

AA was forming around the same time that the movie Reefer Madness was released, 1936. Both seem rooted in the archaic idea that all drugs are bad, an idea that at that time had some validity. Another popular idea at the time, an early derivative of Darwinism, was that the human body was a perfect design and somehow it was the spirit that was defective.

You're absolutely correct, Brave Hearted, that the damage these modern-day believers do is to those who they lead astray. Such a tragedy to think of the ruination of so many lives because of their self-serving self-righteousness.

[KateH1]

OMG I am so angry !!

Wow! I am stunned that one persons opinion could cause such anger! It is, after all, one persons opinion and really has nothing to do with what anyone else choosed to do for themselves.

I am in agreement with IAD, for some, drugs can help with the cravings and urges, but there is No Miracle Drug to cure alcoholism. At the end of the day, no matter which way out one chooses, it still comes down to hard work, not only with the actual act of not picking up a drink, but, also the inner work. The inner work is that which changes the way that we think and handle life on life's terms.

The important thing here is that we each find our way to sober living. Stop worrying about what everyone esle is saying!

[Dolly Sunshine]

OMG I am so angry !!

It is hard work. I take Bac which helps a ton but I am also seeing a therapist for the underlying causes of my addiction. You have to want sobriety more than you want to drink. I struggle every single day but alcohol was destroying my life. I will take whatever I need to and do whatever I need to to stay sober. As you said Kate we all need to find our way. I don't care what anyone thinks I need to stay sober.

[reneesmiles]

OMG I am so angry !!

Just breathe...

[KateH1]

OMG I am so angry !!

Hey Dolly...Great to see you!

[beatle]

OMG I am so angry !!

I agree with all of the above.

Baclofen IS a wonder "drug" (I don't really consider it a drug per se, but ok)... but baclofen alone will not "cure" you. You can easily drink while taking baclofen. If you don't want to stop drinking, it won't help much.

Baclofen is an AID (and a GREAT one), but it is not a cure. Dr. A says so himself -- it allowed HIM to "end" (notice not "cure") his addiction.

I have been in therapy for years, but only after I started taking bac, could we move on to the issues that mattered. Now I am finally able to address those issues. Before, it was always crisis management (putting out fires).

I can understand Brave's anger and frustration, though. Closemindedness is always upsetting.

[UrbanFool]

OMG I am so angry !!

Some people are really abrasive and just can't help but be a-holes. Let that be their problem and not yours. You've got enough on your plate. Any newbie run off by that so fast wasn't ready to quit anyway.

[Lo0p]

OMG I am so angry !!

KateH1;757328 wrote: Wow! I am stunned that one persons opinion could cause such anger! It is, after all, one persons opinion and really has nothing to do with what anyone else choosed to do for themselves.
There's nothing wrong with someone choosing to remain ignorant. Perpetuating that ignorance to the point where it might affect someone else's life is inexcusable.

There was a thousand-year period in history where the Catholic Church reigned supreme. Scientists innovations were suppressed or ignored. Geniuses were called heretics and were put to death, tortured and imprisoned. Libraries and books were burned. For a thousand years intellectual progress stagnated and nearly halted. For a thousand years mankind believed that the sun revolved around the earth even though it had already been postulated that the opposite was true before.

Today we call that period in our history "The Dark Ages." I am not anti-religious and this is not a comment on Catholicism, it is a comment on something the Catholic Church did.

KateH1;757328 wrote: I am in agreement with IAD, for some, drugs can help with the cravings and urges, but there is No Miracle Drug to cure alcoholism. At the end of the day, no matter which way out one chooses, it still comes down to hard work, not only with the actual act of not picking up a drink, but, also the inner work. The inner work is that which changes the way that we think and handle life on life's terms.!

I generally try to avoid this endless black hole but whatever.

Here is a good explanation of why The Sinclair Method is a cure for alcoholism:

"Q: You actually say that the Sinclair Method is a cure for alcoholism. Isn?t it going too far by using the term ?cure.? After all, many claims for cures for addictions turned out to be unwarranted ? too good to be true. Why and how is the Sinclair Method actually a ?cure? for alcoholism?


A: The term ?cure? is not used lightly, or without deep consideration. Sinclair?s method is equivalent to a cure because it actually restores the brain to the condition such that the craving and interest in alcohol are similar to the way they were before alcoholism was learned. The fundamental neurological scaffolding - the biological pathways causing craving and drinking, which are slowly yet deeply established by reinforcement from the drinking, are actually dismantled. Even after naltrexone has left the body, the reduction in craving and drinking remains. De-addiction occurs because the neural system that has been super-strengthened by reinforcement from endorphins ? the wiring driving the addiction - is dismantled over the course of extinction treatment. In other words, if Bill Wilson, one of the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous in 1934 had been through Naltrexone + Drinking extinction treatment he would have not have found himself experiencing periodic spikes in his craving for alcohol - even after his profound mystical experience which led to the founding of AA.

That was of course 1934. It would be another sixty years until naltrexone was approved by the FDA for alcoholism in 1994. The correct way of administering naltrexone - by prescribing it together with ongoing drinking - is only truly becoming recognized as the treatment-of-choice for heavy drinking and alcoholism since the turn of this century.

A treatment may only counteract the symptoms of an ailment. A cure is distinguished by the fact that it removes the underlying cause of the problem. AA is not a cure and has never pretended to be; it says instead that the people in it remain alcoholics. Antabuse was not a cure: the cause for the craving and drinking were stil present, and Antabuse only tried to establish a barrier against drinking. It is no more a cure than physical barriers when incarcerating an alcoholic provide a cure. In contrast to these and all previous treatment procedures, the Sinclair Method does remove the thing that is causing the alcoholism - the neural pathway that when it fires causes craving and drinking.

To be precise, pharmacological extinction does not remove all of the pathway causing drinking nor even return all of it to the level prior to the learning of alcoholism. In order for drinking to occur, firing must proceed all along the pathway. When alcohol then is drunk and endorphins released, all connections (collections of synapses) in the pathway are made stronger. Similarly, in the beginning of extinction, all of the connections are made weaker each time one drinks while on naltrexone. The pathway is, however, only as strong as its weakest link. Once the state is reached where one of the connections is too weak to fire the next neuron in the pathway, then the drinking stops at least for the time being. Many other parts of the pathway may still be considerably stronger than they were before drinking ever began, but this remnant of previous alcoholic learning is apparently only if you start drinking again without naltrexone. At that point, the remaining strengthened portions help make relearning of alcohol drinking behaviors be faster than the initial learning had been."


Here are the words of some people I know who used to be alcoholics but are no longer because they have been cured of their alcoholism by The Sinclair Method:

"I thought I'd post an update to my ongoing "cure" status.

I've lost track of which week I am, but started the middle of Feb, 2009.

About a month ago, I had a week or so where my drinking spiked up to 20-25 units. Not really sure why. As quickly as this uptick came, it went away. I'm back down in the ~10 units/week range now when I do drink. Some weeks I just don't drink at all. In fact, last Thursday I returned from a 2 week long trip where I drank maybe 3 units the entire time and this was on the way to where I was going.

Alcohol is simply no longer an issue in my life. I can say without reservation that I can take it or leave it. Most of the time, I leave it.

-Q"

"The ones who have not made it yet, will eventually. The cure creeps up out of the shadows and boom, you suddenly have control. Further treatments and time give you more and more confidence and an ambivalence toward alcoholic beverages.

I hesitated in stating that I am cured for a number of reasons, but there is no denying the declining numbers, the persistent lack of cravings, and the realization of complete control over when I drink and moderate control of how much I drink. Today, my wife said she thinks that I have beaten my alcoholism and then cautioned me that "just because you're cured doesn't mean you can drink at some time in the future without your Naltrexone", which was kind of cute because we all know that fact here.

Based on the above facts, after 4 months and 25 days, I am now willing to state that: I have been cured of my alcoholism.

I now pronounce myself happy! TSM worked.
Naltrexone + Drinking = Cure

-Bob"

"I cannot describe it in words but both my wife and I realize I am cured. I am on vacation the last 9 nines. I have had 9.86 units the first week (week 16) of Sinclair. So far in week 17 I have had 5 units. But here is the amazing part - last night my wife and kids went out without me. In the past that would have been a reason to go to the bar next store and get lit up. The thought crossed my mind briefly ( I guess out of habit), but I realized that I DID NOT WANT to drink. I just wanted to sit at home and read - which is what I did. Some weeks I drank just to speed the cure. To paraphrase Bill Wilson, my life is manageable and I have power over alcohol. I am happy, joyous, and free.

Read the book, take naltrexone, drink, keep a journal, and let medical science work.

Best Regards to all,
Tom"

Here is someone I know who hasn't declared themselves cured yet but I thought this was funny:

"The chief problem I have now is " bizarre" behaviour :? As when I went to the supermarket and spent ages gathering different alcoholic drinks not to increase the quantity but to ensure a choice because I just couldn't get really enthusiastic about drinking , each bottle I imagined how it'd be and felt luke warm so kept adding more bottles , when I realized the absurdity it felt so daft that i began to put them all back and walked out empty handed . A satisfied customer
Many analogies could serve but the one that appeals to me is how an amputee
still has sensations from the lost limb although it no longer exists . Alcohol has left such a stain on my thinking , a ghostly pall in my psyche that makes me still haunt the booze aisles of supermarkets - at least for the meantime . Oh well , that's ok ,
could be alot worse ! "

Here is an audio interview of a person cured by The Sinclair Method: http://benbellabooks.com/cureforalco...lairMethod.mp3

Here is a book which describes it with references to medical research that dates back more than thirty years. Frankly, it's more than than you'd care to read, even if it can save your life. The book sums it up quite nicely though: The Cure for Alcoholism

[Lo0p]

OMG I am so angry !!

Here is a graph of how many standard US units of alcohol a friend of mine has consumed on a weekly basis throughout the course of his treatment with The Sinclair Method. He declared himself cured of his alcoholism on week 21:

[beatle]

OMG I am so angry !!

Everything always seems to come down to the nature vs. nurture idea. Either we are alcoholics because of underlying issues that need to be addressed in order for us to conquer our problem, or we have some physiological problem -- genetic, neurological, whatever -- that needs to be fixed so that we can behave normally, with or without alcohol.

I think it is both ways in most cases. However, I think the greatest disservice anyone can do to an alcoholic who wants to get sober, is to suggest, to assert, to preach that the alcoholic's alcohol problem is caused by other issues and can only be solved by addressing those issues.

This approach is causing, and has has caused, an unfathomable and inexcusable amount of needless suffering and death.

Everyone has issues. Some far more horrific than others, and, yes, sometimes (although certainly not always), these issues are/were the impetus, or trigger, that leads/led to their decent into an alcoholic life.

But, I believe most alcoholics (and I am one of them) cannot deal with their "issues" until they are free from their physiological and psychological dependence. It doesn't matter what triggered it; it has to be addressed before the deeper psychological issues can be delved into.

Trying to solve psychological problems first is quite simply putting the cart before the horse.

For the first time in my life, I am able to use my therapy time to deal with the pressing and deep issues, only because of baclofen, which has freed me from using all my internal energy to keep from drinking.

As my therapist says, we've progressed from 3 years of crisis management (at $200/week) to delving into the real work and solving the real problems.

I have been using almost all of my time and energy on my alcohol problem for close to 5 years now. It feels good to be able to channel that energy into the real personal work I need and want to do.

Let's start putting the horse in front of the cart, so that both can do their job.