My Naltrexone Journey

[crown86]

My Naltrexone Journey

Jon

Glad to hear your units are way down. Thats awsome. The best part I am sure you are aware of is how easy natural and sub conciously this is occuring.

The amazing thing to me is I'm slowly losing all ability to drink hard liquor be it straight or mixed and like I have said previously I LOVE THE TASTE of any hard liquor straight. Gin scotch rum whiskey blends liquors that are 80 proof any thing 80 proof straight. I LOVED the taste and LOVED to be drunk.

It's amazing I am primarily drinking beer. Thats how I started in my alcoholism. I will never forget in my late 20's I took a girl out to dinner who didn't drink and I thought I was sophisticated and ordered a scotch on the rocks and could barley drink it. But man o man did I come full circle. I got to the point I hated beer...it was filler..an wine..to me that was for women unless it was homemade, nite train or whats the price a quarter twice whats the word thunderbird...LOL yep got some as a joke one time with an old chilhood friend and forgot how potent the stuff was and then continued to buy it for spell. Was funny I live in the high dollar part of town would have friends over they would ask if I had aany wine..I was yeah I think so look in the freezer...they were like the freezer? I was yeah the freezer and please leave it in the paper bag it's better that way.

I am finding myself getting very Nauseaous on hard liquor after 2. It seems to be continuing which I am loving getting sick from it. Sounds nuts I know but the stuff has gotten me into hell on eath. I still want it, addiction insanity, but when I go to drink it I get sick to my stomach like when I took the woman out to dinner in my 20's. Not antabuse sick, which I have zero experience with jusy what I have read and heard , but a natural nausiousness like when I first started just dabaling in the hard stuff.

I am now primarily drinking beer which is very odd and funny for me. I used to play the moderation game of ok I will only drink beer because the hell starts with anything hard and straight and this would never last. Whiskey or any hard liquor has a so much better buzz and can take me to a black-out land of oz that beer can't even come close to no matter how many I have. It's like I am playing the old bullshit moderation game naturally like I really can't get hard liquor down.

I still romantize the bottle and turn to it for all the same reasons before like happy sad mad or glad and when I am with someone or by myself. But the turning is not a complete swan dive in. The bottle is becoming very inaffective. I am hoping in the next few months I will stop turning to and romatizing the bottle. Time will tell. But I am happy as hell with Liquor making me ill and tolerance obliterated.

The best part about naltrexone and the sinclair method is it is occuring to me "naturally" all I do is adhear religously to take natrexone one hour prior to drinking and the pill does the rest. I was recently reading a post on the TSM site and a guy was like why am I taking a pill to kill the pleasurable effects of alcohol. I thought brother you have not yet suffered enough. I will ALWAYS have this pill on my person till the day that I die. I have 4 in my wallet, two in my car, and plan to ALWAYS have these amounts in these places. I WOULD NEVER DRINK WITHOUT NALTREXONE. I guess you have to stare hell in the face and live in it for awhile to grasp it. I felt really bad for the guy posting, almost like he's kinda in hell or why would he be on a site about quitting but he has zero clue I think of the road the bottle takes you on. Thank God for naltrexone and TSM and me not being THAT guy.

[afterfive]

My Naltrexone Journey

Thanks, crown86, for sharing your experience with Naltrexone. It really works. But I ran into some side effects.

I read Roy Eskapa's book, and obtained some Naltrexone. I began taking it in the afternoon. The second evening was eye-opening. I was on my third beer. A realization hit me: this tastes like water [no, it wasn't light lager either]. I'm getting no buzz from it at all. Same result on the fourth beer: it goes down like water; no warm glow; no pleasant buzz in the head a few seconds later. When it became obvious that no amount of further drinking would give me any buzz, I stopped for the evening.

Unfortunately, I also woke up at 4 a.m., with my mind just fizzing. At first, this was mildly pleasurable. It was stimulative. But after three or four nights of waking up at 4 a.m., I was a sleep-deprived zombie. I had to stop the Naltrexone, just so I could get a night's sleep.

This insomniac side effect may be just my peculiarity. I've found that almost any substance that alters mood, metabolism or serotinin -- be it SAMe, St. Johns Wort, Naltrexone, SSRIs, or whatever -- interferes with my sleep. I started taking my Naltrexone dose in the morning instead of the afternoon, but I still couldn't sleep at night.

No question, Naltrexone does what it's supposed to do. By locking up the brain's opioid receptors (which also respond to alcohol), it eliminates the buzz one expects from a drink. Without any pleasure or reinforcement from drinking, you stop because it's useless. This worked for me, and reportedly does for a majority of people (85% or more).

Sadly, I just couldn't tolerate the insomnia I experienced on Naltrexone. So now I'm embarking on the My Way Out approach, with kudzu and Topamax. Good luck to all on Naltrexone therapy. Having experienced its effectiveness myself, I think it's a promising approach for most people if they can tolerate Naltrexone.

[Lo0p]

My Naltrexone Journey

afterfive, you are not at all the only one to experience insomnia. A lot of us did. However, this side effect goes away rather rapidly, usually within the first week or two. It is very short-lived, as are all side effects of naltrexone that people report. If you'd like to read and research about The Sinclair Method I recommend this website: thesinclairmethod.com • Index page It has MUCH more information than the book.

I'd hate to see you make a potentially life changing decision without first knowing all of the facts. Namely, that the side effect you are experiencing is very likely to disappear within a week if you continue.

edit: It's also likely that half of it is caused by the fact that you are drinking less.

[Cinders]

My Naltrexone Journey

AfterFive,

I also want to add that almost all of us suffer insomnia when we quit drinking anyway. It is a side-effect of stopping the drink.

It goes away with time. It is worth waiting it out because when you do sleep again, you really truly sleep.

Cindi

[crown86]

My Naltrexone Journey

Afterfive

Yep my friend I COMPLETELY know the insomnia your talking about. I was like a zombie for days..This side effect of insomnia went away after a week to 10 days. It was the worst insomnia of my life.

I am with Loop and his comments reagrding the insomnia. And also agree with Cinders. It seems either way we are going to pay a price for what we have done with alcohol. No way to avoid the taxman on this one.

For me I looked at it like well I spent many nights passed out on my kitchen floor, passed out half slumped over in a chair, or even been woken up in my front lawn by a neighbor walking their dog. Can't exactly say I slept like a baby. I am a high functioning alcoholic so after these passed out nights I still got up and functioned as I needed to the next day. If you want to dance you have to pay the band was my attitude.

I figured I will just plow thru the insomnia with naltrexone and was TOTALLY PREPARED even if it did last to keep the TSM going. My attitude was if this continues this might be reason enough not to drink. No buzz as before, weird clear buzz, and being a zombie I started thinking why drink.

I was in such a hellish place I had to do something, and AA was not going to be the way for me. I had done AA for 10 years in my youth and KNEW it was not going to be for me.
I had made up my mind for a FULL TILT COMMITTMENT to TSM after reading their forum and the book The Cure for Alcoholism. It made perfect scientific sense.

The bottom line to me was TSM full committment whatever the side effects and really to me the side effects of alcohol - liver disease,heart disease, destroyed relationships with family friends and lovers, lost oppurtunity's, depression to suicidal levels, and OH THE GUILT and all the rest of what alchol brings. The insomonia looked like a good choice to tolerate and the lesser of two evils.

Either way my friend, I hope MWO works for you, or TSM if not only saying this because you experienced the success of TSM, or anything at all as long as it works for you.


Goodluck and wish you the best in whatever method you decide on.

[brightlite]

My Naltrexone Journey

If you are talking about side effects, the Topo "Dopo" effects were much worse for me. I was on the Nal for about a week, but decided that it did not have any effect on me. Impatient I guess, anyway I am considering giving it another try with the understanding that I may be one of the ones that does not experience any effect right away.

Also, after continued reading and research, I'm very interested in the Nal and Bac combination as Loop is currently taking. To me it seems to address all the issues and works in combination on different neurotransmitters for a more effective approach. Throw in some real will power and support and it might be the answer for me.

[lenaleed]

My Naltrexone Journey

brightlite -- No one experiences any meaningful effect from naltrexone "right away." It is not an anti-craving med. What it does is dismantle the neural pathways that reinforce the learned behavior of excess alcohol consumption. This happens over several weeks or months of drinking sessions, and it cannot consciously be felt. You might want to read Eskapa's book. It costs only about twelve bucks and is not one of those infomercial-in-a-book deals (like the Enterhealth people of Passages Malibu, both of which are books to sell pricey rehab). There are chapters posted on thesinclairmethod.com along with lots of other information about naltrexone.

NO study has demonstrated the efficacy of naltrexone as an anti-craving med. There is the anecdotal exception, of course; a few here have reported it works that way for them (or at least did for a time) and I must respect that.

I certainly can see why the naltrexone/baclofen combination has appeal. Some over at the TSM board are adding baclofen to their regimen, or considering it. For those who are drinking at dangerously high levels or for other reasons can't wait the weeks or months it takes for naltrexone to work, the two could be an ideal solution.

All good wishes for success in whatever you decide.

[NC]

My Naltrexone Journey

I have been taking bac for eight weeks and nal for four weeks. I started nal in case I could not continue to take bac because of somnolence. I am tolerating the somnolence and I now am almost AF from the bac. As stated previously, I am considering continuing the nal while drinking one or two glasses of wine a night to see if after several months of that regimen I can taper down the bac to nothing and just continue the nal whenever I want to have a drink. I know bac is considered safe to take long term, but it just seems it would be easier and better to take nal on a prn basis.

So using bac to become AF early on and then continuing nal to see if it can be the long term solution.
I have posted this question on the TSM site to Dr. Eskapa and hope to see what he thinks.

Any opinions from you all? I know LoOP has told me he is sort of doing the same thing. The problem I think I might have is that I am becoming so happy with the bac that it might be hard to force myself to have a glass of wine a night.

Thanks.

NC

[Cinders]

My Naltrexone Journey

Combination of Naltrexone and Baclofen for Alcohol Dependence:A Pilot Study. - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

Cindi

[NC]

My Naltrexone Journey

Cindi,
Thanks. I am aware of that study as well as other studies by Dr. Garbutt. It should be noted that the maximum dose of baclofen is only 30 mg per day and the study is for 12 weeks only. So, it seems that the bac dose is low with respect to what others are finding effective for them on this forum, and the length of the study is short with respect to the TSM regimen. It will be interesting so see what his findings are.

Again, thanks.

I have posted on the TSM forums, subject "Naltrexone and Baclofen" and had responses from Virgil, Lena, and bob 3d. Also had response from LoOP on this forum with respect to using bac and nal. Any new ideas or other opinions would be appreciated.

NC

[hadit]

My Naltrexone Journey

Hi brightlite,Lenaleed NC and Cinders,Thanks so much for your posts. I have been taking 50mg Nal everyday for about 4 weeks now and it has had no effect.I drink about 1 to 1.5 bottles of wine a day .I take the drug 1 hr at 4.30pm prior to drinking. Am I expecting to much to soon ? I have read that it can take weeks even months for the drug to start doing its job in blocking receptors and the craving to drink. Can you give me any advice? I don't want to give up:thanks: and really need support at the moment.

[crown86]

My Naltrexone Journey

Well guys and Gals this the week ending January 3rd.

I have not kept track of my units. I am going to start again this week but I am starting to feel that the units are of no value to me. I really wanted to tame or quit Alcohol for these reasons:

1. I wanted to no longer hurt those close to me. Since TSM I have not had one alcohol related fight or craziness or bizzare incedent. Which Pre-TSM they were every week.

2. I wanted the depression that only alcohol can cause to disappear from my life so I could begin to rebuild. I still have depression no doubt. But it is not a crazy suicidal why I am breathing depression. It is manageable and again I feel like I can fuction enough to rebuild my life and am begining to see myself as worthwhile again.

For me this holiday season has been pure hell. I am so glad it's over. But I know this for a god given fact - if it wasn't for tsm I would have been drunk every day and night from right before Christmas until now. I broke up with my fiance still crying the blues over it, money is tight, and I have isolated myself from people. I am going to fix the money problem this week and resume my career in a big way or at least go down swinging, I am going to be spending a lot of time in the city around people and friends so I will squash the isolationism. As far as the fiance I am not trying to sound cold it hurts like hell but i am not in highschool so it's not the first broken heart and without booze at crazy levels its tolerable at best right now. The only cure for a broken heart I know of is time and without alcohol time can pass and heal me.

As far as actual units go I drank just about everyday this past week and the whole holiday season. Had friends from the city come between Xmas and new years and for new Years went to Family's house. Hell this is the first new Years I went to bed sober in I don't know how many years and did not have that hangover new years day thing going on. I actually enjoyed and remebered visting with my Family and did not make a fool out of myself. The units are still as far as I am concerned low - average around five per day and one AF day so that would be 30 for the week.

I am still not where I want to be with alcohol I would like lower consumption but I am PLEASED with my results so far. Straight hard liquor continues to make me sick and I am primarialy drinking beer which in the past I hated for the fact it couldn't get me where I wanted to be buzz wise. Beer is fine and all but not CLOSE to a whiskey buzz. I still crave the whiskey buzz but the thought of the mechanic of getting the buzz makes me sick. I never in a million years thought a pill could make me lose my desire for whiskey. I LOVE THE TASTE I LOVE THE BUZZ I LOVE THE ROMANTICISM IN MUSIC OVER WHISKEY. Hence I loved everything about it. Now I love the buzz but cant bear the thought of getting there to the point I pass on it. I have never had a half gallon of whiskey last so long in my house since I can't remember it has made it from kitchen counter to the liquor cabinet.

I am now playing the "I will only drink beer game" and sticking to it with ease and by choice effortlesly.Drinking no more than five which Pre-TSM I could knock back easily 15 or more if it's just beer. So this week hard liquor continues to make me ill, and my tolerance remains obliterated and I'm happy for this. I am positively convinced I am drinking out of habit because when things are bad thats what I do I drink. I am not happy about this and I know I need to re-learn healthy coping mechanisms but for now I am pleased. I look at it like i did not destroy myself overnight I can not fix myself overnight.

I feel for all of you that TSM is not working for. I pray that either it will begin to work or you will find another method or a combination of TSM and something else that does work. Your posts I apprciate as much those "cured" It makes me that much more greatful and figure "there but the grace of God go I"

[crown86]

My Naltrexone Journey

Week 7 ending Jan 10th 2010
Guestimated units mabey 15ish

Pretty uneventful week as far as alcohol goes...LOL and that is a damn miracle..I can't beleive I am writing this..As far as units..again a guestimate as I have not been keeping track. I have almost exlusively drank beer out of choice not my old bs moderation game. Hard liquor is still repulsing me physically but not mentally..wish it would mentally..would have saved me from the porcilan throne thursday evening.

Was over at a friends on thursday night with a few people..the karoke machine got drug out...LOL..I play guitar and love music..so..I slammed six beers pretty fast...like in an hour and a half...man I was wasted. Then the shots came out...I did two...the second one sent me running to the bathroom. No wacky behavior though from me - was in control buzz wise.

The best part alcohol wise about this night - I have not been drunk on a six pack since college and the shots were like in the begining of my drinking career...LOL man up with the boys and have shot..if your mouth starts watering and your stomach rumbles NEVER LET'M SEE YA SWEAT. I am very pleased with this night, was like I had the tolerance when I was 27ish at the begining of my booze love affair. On 6 beers and 2 shots I puked and the night was fuzzy and the next day was hell. I cant remember the last time I had a hangover like this. Take the day off get a steak and cheese close the blinds and watch old John Wayne Movies all day and swear I will never do it again. During the height of my alcoholism hangovers didn't happen - feeling like crap became a way of life.

I am still amazed at myself with the shot thing. Hard liquor has been making me ill lately. I took these shots like the pre-alcoholic drinking, just to be macho with the boys, only difference I was thinking and HOPING and PRAYING I would get sick, just to know TSM is working. I could have passed with minimal effort...ah but the macho thing, the romanticism of whiskey got me. To me mental not physical...need to kill this. I am done puking and very much am sure I will pass in the future.

During my drinking madness when I still went to bars I didn't give damn who had shot, I was drinking them on the side with Crown on the rocks as my main course. I was way past the every guy out with us gets a shot gather in a circle make some stupid toast and drink'm. I didn't need company for them and my buddies were always like damn how many of those you gonna drink. I used to take my thumb and index finger and form a C and tell the bartender "C is for champ, give me another little one". I feel like it's a full circle right back to the begining almost.

Rest of the week was a beer here and there with dinner type thing. If this week could be the rest of my life drinking I would be completely satisfied.

[bernard]

My Naltrexone Journey

Cinders;781881 wrote: Combination of Naltrexone and Baclofen for Alcohol Dependence:A Pilot Study. - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

Garbutt is running this study. He is rabidly anti-baclofen because of his flaming jealousy of Ameisen for being charming and handsome, having a beautiful French accent, and being credited for curing alcoholism -- all things that Garbutt wished for himself, and thought that he rightly deserved.

Watch for the baclofen dose to be 30 mg, and Garbutt to announce that it has no effect.

[brightlite]

My Naltrexone Journey

Crown,

Awesome posts. I know that you are struggling, as we all are. I enjoy reading your posts because they are so real. You lay it all out and think your thoughts as you write. Keep it up. Always be vigilant of the demon and never give up.


Bernard,
I'm pretty sure you will be right about this Garbutt character! That's too bad when jealousy affects the research. He probably is doing it to try to prove Ameisen wrong or discredit him.