Baclofen Dosage

[tiptronic_ct]

Baclofen Dosage

Lo0p;781802 wrote: I remember tip saying something about a debate going on a while ago where people were talking about the speed of titration affecting the 'switch' dose...

I never found it.

Sorry again RedThread, I didn't mean for it to come out like that.

That was mainly Bill.P, who went on to stupidly delete all his posts. Luckily most of the info has been recovered.

I do believe a fast titration helped me, and I also believe that at my maintenance level, taking two doses, fairly close to each other (lunchtime & mid-afternoon) "knocks out" drinking thinking.

Just a word of caution (again): fast titration MUST be done carefully if you're experiencing side-effects. If that is the case, just take it nice and easy.

[tiptronic_ct]

Baclofen Dosage

Thank dog my short-term memory is better these days

I'm not up to thread-trawling to find the original posts (there wasn't a particular thread devoted to the topic) around speed of titration. Maybe an idea for you start one, Lo0P?

So, from memory: the argument around speed of titration is also linked to the cessation or at least dramatic tapering of alcohol intake when starting on baclofen.

I went from drinking 500ml + of vodka and a bottle of red wine a day before starting on bac, to 4 glasses of red wine by the time I commenced.

Which is why it is INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT not to rely only on bac to get you all the way there. Please read things like the Tool Box thread in the Monthly Abstinence Forum. Some really, really good advice to be found on breaking those pesky habits we have around drinking and "witching" hours etc.

[cowgal]

Baclofen Dosage

hi

didn't see this thread til now..................good that you read the book.................I started out slow, then titrated up really quickly w/ no side effects, turned out my brand was a weaker one than I am on now, so the brand does matter, but just let your body let you know how it is going, I went up really high really quickly, was up to 200mg at one point, of course on the weaker stuff..........................now I am at about 100 mg/day and it is keeping the cravings gone................THANK GOD!!!

Best of luck Virgil, doubt I was ,much help, but just thought I would add my experience!!

MA:l

[RedThread12]

Baclofen Dosage

Virgil:

I completely totally beyond absolutely agree with you (and Dr. Ameison, et al) that anxiety precedes the addiction. I have a long story that includes some fairly unique and somewhat extreme experiences (rigorous training and practice in meditation and yoga) that tell me that this is reality. I'll tell it to you in case it resonates with anything you know to be true for yourself.

My early drinking and drugging ended as I went deeper into "spiritual" (I would say more scientific that spiritual, but for now they're in that box) practices. A lot of other self-defeating behavior ended, as well. So these were the "tools" that I have cultivated over many years.

That was a long time ago (1985). Since then, there has been spectacular research done investigating the effects of meditation and yoga. These practices directly address physiological anxiety (some very interesting theories regarding the underpinnings of anxiety are emerging) and fMRI's reveal the functional and physiological changes that meditation makes in the brain! Lucky me, I never knew that I was a fall-down, pass-out, drink-all-day alcoholic until a traumatic event knocked me out of my practices and into "once I start I can't stop" drinking.

After a few years of that I got sober for three years with the help of some good psych meds and AA. However, I never got back to my daily practices, which I now totally understand were how I "medicated" my anxiety from the time I was 30 until I was 43-44. I relapsed in May and could NOT make any progress using the things I had done before. I was a miserable mess.

When I read about baclofen, the idea of addressing the anxiety instead of the drinking not only made sense to me, it offered a way for me to understand my own experience. And believe me, I was totally at a loss as to how to understand how someone who knew what I knew could wind up where I was. Seems AA is right about that - it's not what I knew, it's what I did (or, in this case, didn't do).

I ordered bac online and that is what killed my alcohol cravings. I started the first week in October. I haven't had more than two drinks on any day since the first day, and more AF than not. And there is something about taking the bac that is far more "successful" for me than just not drinking. I have re-established the things that I need to do on a daily basis to nurture my well-being. My friends agree with me that I am more "sober" now, even with a glass of wine or two along the way, than I ever was in three years of not drinking.

I started with 10mg/3xday. I always take it when I wake up - for whatever reason that tends to be my highest anxiety time of the day (maybe something about cortisol?). After three months I am now at 140mg/40 am/40 mid-day/60 5-6 pm'ish. I have to admit I have been a bit enthralled with the being able to drink one-or-two stage. I'm going to keep going up a bit more with the intent to put the AL away completely over the next month. I haven't had any real cravings to drink since Day 1, so it will be interesting to find out what the best maintenance dose is for me. I'm 5'7", 155 lbs.

Here are some things that MAY have benefited me with the bac:
1. Although I was drinking heavily when I started it, I had recently been AF (albeit suicidal) for a couple of weeks.
2. I'm extremely sensitive to physical sensations. I'm not bragging, I'm just sayin', I FELT the bac working an hour after I took my first 10 mgs. Given my drinking history, it's bizarre to say this, but now I can feel the effect of even one glass of wine the next morning - and that effect is heightened anxiety!
3. I am able (and do!) use the "tools" of meditation and yoga daily. This I can do every day (I did for 14 years, made my living, traveled the world studying and teaching to boot!). Other, more externally oriented staying sober tools made me feel suicidal at the thought of doing them every day.
4. I attended a week-long intensive trauma therapy program that is part of a treatment program for addictions of all kinds here in the U.S. A theory gaining credibility is that physical/emotional traumas result in changes to our brain chemistry and physiology that reappear and interfere, often in the form of addictions, later in life. This theory is also consistent with the idea that certain anxieties are in our physiology, not in our minds.

So, obviously, my way out is exactly that. I certainly won't be recommending that anyone attend silent, 30-day meditation courses where the sitting schedule is from 4:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. as a way out of this desperate, deadly disease. I have done that, a few times, and although it kept me from drinking it didn't keep me from being an alcoholic. But I do feel as if my experience lends credence to the "anxiety first" premise. When I was addressing the anxiety, I didn't drink. When I quit, my personal biochemistry delivered me quickly into alcoholic hell. The baclofen has provided me another way to address the anxiety, and I am out of that hell.

And I just want to say again - when my friend came out of de-tox, it was decided that I should hold her anti-anxiety meds because she had been using them to get really messed up. She knows she can get them, as prescribed, at any time, but has not felt the need to take them since she has been on baclofen. Purely anecdotal, but hopeful!

Now, to close this massive missive, I must say that I heartily agree with Tip that it is important to develop as many tools as possible, along with the baclofen. It's been an immense journey for me, and I have learned so much more than just how to not drink. I don't know what your path will be, Virgil, but I know, know, know you can do this. Really.

And LoOp: Thanks for the hugs. I see and greatly admire your commitment to getting as much information "out there" as possible for those of us who are suffering, and I thank you for that. :goodjob: Maybe you were just tryin' to take care of Virgil? I think there's a forum somewhere for co-dependents. Just Kidding, Totally Kidding :h

[Trixiebelle]

Baclofen Dosage

tiptronic_ct;782006 wrote: I do believe a fast titration helped me, and I also believe that at my maintenance level, taking two doses, fairly close to each other (lunchtime & mid-afternoon) "knocks out" drinking thinking.

Just a word of caution (again): fast titration MUST be done carefully if you're experiencing side-effects. If that is the case, just take it nice and easy.

Yeah I have found that out the hard way, back at 60mg a day and might stick at that for a while, til I feel "normal" again.

[Virgil]

Baclofen Dosage

cowgal;782080 wrote: didn't see this thread til now..................good that you read the book.................I started out slow, then titrated up really quickly w/ no side effects, turned out my brand was a weaker one than I am on now, so the brand does matter, but just let your body let you know how it is going, I went up really high really quickly, was up to 200mg at one point, of course on the weaker stuff..........................now I am at about 100 mg/day and it is keeping the cravings gone................THANK GOD!!!

Best of luck Virgil, doubt I was ,much help, but just thought I would add my experience!!

MA:l

Hi cowgal,

You have made some interesting points. Firstly, the bit about 'brand'. The baclofen that I am taking is produced by Teva (UK) Ltd., which I get from a doctor's prescription. Secondly, your current dose of 'about' 100mg/day - so I have a little way to go before I hit that figure.

Thanks.

V.

[Virgil]

Baclofen Dosage

RedThread,

Many thanks for your comprehensive reply. I have read it twice already but I need to read it again to absorb all the valuable points you have made.

Thanks again.

V.

[RedThread12]

Baclofen Dosage

Yeah, it was a lot. Thank you for taking the time to read it. It was really good for me to put on "paper." My personal life's work and my profession are in the field of "body-centered therapies," so I'm sure my current "experiment" will find it's way into that, someday.

Virgil, feel free to PM me if I can help in any way :l

[NC]

Baclofen Dosage

Tip,
Where is the info BillP provided, deleted, but has been recovered? I don't know where to find it.
NC