Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

[shelbysmiles]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

Virgil;794254 wrote: Hi shelbysmiles,

I'm interested in what you say about baclofen from doctors being more potent than that from overseas. Having read a lot of threads on MWO, I was under the (wrong?) impression that there was little difference between the different sources of baclofen. Furthermore, I would have thought that some of the baclofen being prescribed by doctors is actually supplied from overseas. I'll look into this further.

I don't entirely understand your comment "Time your recommended switch would be 120". When I hear the word "switch" in context with baclofen, I equate that word with the dosage at which people become indifferent towards alcohol. But, clearly I have not got to that stage. Perhaps I'm just being a bit thick! For my benefit, would you mind explaining what you meant by your comment? Apologies in advance!

Thanks.

V.

Virgil, I would have to go a ways back to dig up the posts but there were a couple of posters who did get a RX from their Dr filled at a pharmacy, state that it was more potent than the pills they had received from over seas. It has also been stated in several posts and by my own experience that different brands have different potency as well.

My comment about "switch" was directed towards Time 4Change. Her calculated switch for a weight of 105lbs should be around 119mg/day

T4Change, I am doing great with Bacofen. It has taken me a while (around 6 months) but when I finally let myself keep going until I hit the switch and figured out a good dosing schedule it worked. I'm 120lbs and take 150-160 spread out pretty evenly throughout the day. I will be forever grateful for Dr A's book. 95% of the time I have no desire to drink. There are the occassions when my small children drive me so crazy that I could pour a bottle of wine down my throat; but I choose to do something else, ie. read a book, workout, go to sleep. I've been at this dose for a month or so now and I'm not sure when I'll start scaling down. I'm a bit terrified of that!

SS

[Lo0p]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

shelbysmiles;794496 wrote: Virgil, I would have to go a ways back to dig up the posts but there were a couple of posters who did get a RX from their Dr filled at a pharmacy, state that it was more potent than the pills they had received from over seas. It has also been stated in several posts and by my own experience that different brands have different potency as well.

It's not the pharmacy or country that matters it's the manufacturer. MA got pills from her pharmacy that were very weak. They were manufactured by Watson, a MAJOR pharm manufacturer. She then got pills from the same pharmacy when they switched brands that were much stronger.

There definitely is variability. Everyone agrees on that.

[JWHIII]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

shelbysmiles;793864 wrote: I also wanted to mention that the Rx you get from your local Pharmacy can be stronger than what you get overseas. Many people on this site that got the Rx from their Dr have stated that their Baclofen seems much stronger than what that had received from overseas. You might want to take that into account when calculating. My switch was a little higher than what was recommended.

================================================== =====================================

Virgil, I would have to go a ways back to dig up the posts but there were a couple of posters who did get a RX from their Dr filled at a pharmacy, state that it was more potent than the pills they had received from over seas. It has also been stated in several posts and by my own experience that different brands have different potency as well.

Lo0p;794613 wrote: It's not the pharmacy or country that matters it's the manufacturer. MA got pills from her pharmacy that were very weak. They were manufactured by Watson, a MAJOR pharm manufacturer. She then got pills from the same pharmacy when they switched brands that were much stronger.

There definitely is variability. Everyone agrees on that.

Howdy folks,

I wondered about that.

I noticed this myself recently. The "lost" order I referred to in an earlier post finally showed up months later, after I had refrained from Baclofen therapy. I couldn't see throwing it out, so I kept it in a closet for safe keeping.

When I obtained a prescription, I decided to make use of the Baclofen I had purchased from overseas first. It had not expired yet, and the prospect of obtaining more was secure. So I figured it only made sense to make good use of it.

But once it was depleted and I switched over to the prescription regimen from the pharmacy , there was a notable difference in the strength and intensity of it's effects. It wasn't anything to be alarmed about, but definitely noticeable.

shelbysmiles;793864 wrote: I am doing great with Bacofen. It has taken me a while (around 6 months) but when I finally let myself keep going until I hit the switch and figured out a good dosing schedule it worked. I'm 120lbs and take 150-160 spread out pretty evenly throughout the day. I will be forever grateful for Dr A's book. 95% of the time I have no desire to drink. There are the occassions when my small children drive me so crazy that I could pour a bottle of wine down my throat; but I choose to do something else, ie. read a book, workout, go to sleep. I've been at this dose for a month or so now and I'm not sure when I'll start scaling down. I'm a bit terrified of that!

SS

Hi shelbysmiles,

Are you saying that you're maintaining your threshold or "switch" dose as a maintenance dose? If so, you really needn't be leery of tapering down your dose to a more manageable level. Baclofen has done it's thing and you're in the clear.

If and when you feel comfortable with it, just taper it gradually by ten mgs. a day. If you experience a stressful episode at a lower dose, you can always supplement with an additional 10-20 mgs. I've had to do this on occasion. I don't have children, but all it takes is running a few errands in rush hour traffic to stress me out!

If you're concerned over tapering down your dose daily, maybe try lowering it by 10 mgs. every third day or every week as opposed to daily. This might allow you to become better acclimated to a lower dose and give you a better idea of how effective it will be for you. I loved the freedom my threshold dose provided me. But this same liberation can be attained at a much lower dose once the "switch" has been activated.

Take care,
John

[shelbysmiles]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

Really, I'm not trying to start an uproar about Baclofen. I'm simply reporting information that I have found and experienced in the 7 or so months since I have been taking Baclofen. I was merely trying to let folks know that their recommended "switch" may be 120mg but not to be afraid to go a little higher because their "brand" may not be as strong as others.

[JWHIII]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

Hi SS,

I had perceived a desire on your part, followed by grave concern regarding if and/or when to taper down your current dose. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

I had originally intended to also add that I think it's great that you seek relaxation in other activities such as reading a book. This is something I need to work on.

And I can see your point about some requiring a higher dose than their pre-calculated ceiling dose, depending on the source by which they obtain their medication.

A confidant in this thread has pointed something out to me recently... an important figure I had somehow overlooked in my desperate ambition to commence with Baclofen treatment. I wish I would've known about this site a year ago!

What was brought to my attention are the figures found on pages 166-167 of Dr. Ameisen's book (including his latest reprint: "Heal Thyself"). There, a range of 1-3 mg./kg. is plainly stated for suppression of alcohol craving and preoccupation.

I had gathered the range of 1-5 mgs. from his FAQ Page as well as from his Case Report. But I had overlooked a specific bit of information regarding the varying dosage range requirements pertaining to different substances. It's only 1-3 for alcohol...

(ii) In rats, at doses up to 10 times higher (5 mg/kg), baclofen suppresses cocaine self-administration, motivation to consume alcohol and attenuates self administration of cocaine, alcohol, heroin, nicotine and D-amphetamine (Roberts and Andrews, 1997; Shoaib et al., 1998 Xi and Stein, 1999; Colombo et al., 2000, 2003; Fattore et al., 2002; Brebner et al., 2004). Effects are dose dependent for each substance. For alcohol, up to 3 mg/kg are required.

I don't know how I missed this important detail, but I did none the less. I had equated my ceiling dose at 2.5 mg./kg. and thankfully, it was sufficient. If I had utilized the figure of 3 mgs., my threshold dose would've been 225 mgs. In hindsight, this would have been achievable. However, I really don't see the point in surpassing a switch dose.

Once it has become evident that thoughts, preoccupation, and cravings for alcohol have been completely suppressed, I see little point in continuing "the climb".

All three times I've made the ascent and descent, I've found that Baclofen continues at lower doses, the proper balance of neurotransmission it had implemented at a much higher dose (minus the dizziness, drowsiness, headache, and etc.).

I also happened upon another crucial detail I had somehow missed while looking into the other specifics that had been pointed out to me. Dr. Ameisen actually went above the suggested ceiling dose of 3 mg./kg. (3.6 mg./kg.). When I computed this figure with my own body weight, my threshold dose would've been what his was (270 mgs.).

Thank you all for your insight! I'm glad to be here.

~John

[Jenn]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

Hello All,
I'm so grateful for this site & all of the info on it due to everyone being so open to sharing. I don't know if this is the best thread to continue posting on, or maybe it will be one of 2+?. I started on Baclofen on Sunday and have taken 5 mg 3 times a day 9a, 2p, 7p. Today I will take 10 mg as the evening dose, so I don't have to cut another tiny tablet. Then to 10 mg 3/day. I haven't felt anything different at all yet (no headaches or somnolence), but I expect that comes as one is titrating up.... drinking a little less than "normal" 6 -7 glasses of wine yesterday.
I am hoping to buy Dr A's book this afternoon at the bookstore.
Thanks again to all who have posted & thereby helped, and of course to those who responded to my couple of earlier posts....including MA who is still in my prayers and daily Gratefulness site candles....
Jenn

[sami]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

extreme somnolence

finished reading dr. a's book....how extraordinary! it's frustrating that the medical community has been so slow to embrace this. i am currently taking bac that i've ordered online, although i'm planning on working up the courage to talk to a dr. about a prescription. gulp! i'm taking 10 mg 3 times a day and have been so very, very sleepy since i started at 10 mg 2x daily. last week i almost couldn't function----my head would start to nod every time i sat down. drank lots of coffee and would get up and walk around regularly. still....as soon i stopped. Zzzzzz...... read where at least one woman in dr. a's book stopped the bac b/c of somnolence. i'm wondering if this is a problem that anyone else here has had and conquered! :thanks:

[Virgil]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

Hi Folks,

This is just a polite reminder that we need to get more figures from those that have been successful with baclofen. Unless I'm mistaken, we have ten results to date but a few more would be great news.

Please consider adding your data.

Thanks in advance.

V.

[Spectra]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

Male, 75Kg, 40yr, 5'11", pretty fit (other than being an alcy off course!)

Switch at ~180/200mg stayed there about a week before coming slowly down

10mg every two/three days ramp in either direction,

Also: L-Glutamine 3x7mg, Berocca 2x0.5tab, St John's Wort 3x170mg

Notes: The L-Glut is fantastic stuff, highly recommend. Berocca is UK only as far as I'm aware but is a huge hit of vit C and B complexes, there must be similar product available elsewhere.

[craving]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

my indifference to alcohol 'switch' flipped around 200-250mg / day (2.2-2.7mg / kg)
looking forward to keep the levels high for some weeks, then I want to start reducing the dose.

Baclofen is the most amazing thing that has happened to me so far. Craving is ZERO.

[Virgil]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

Hi Folks,

Based on the information that people have kindly offered to date, the baclofen dosage required to reach the 'switch' is 1.1 - 3.2mg/kg body weight. This tallies very well with the figure quoted in Dr Ameisen's The End of My Addiction (pages 166 - 167), which is 1 - 3 mg/kg.

What is interesting is that, albeit based on a small sample, gender does not appear to have much bearing on the required dosage. That could change, of course, as more figures are added in future. Combining males and females, the overall average baclofen 'switch' dosage works out at 2.4mg/kg.

I should point out that, in arriving at these figures, I took the mid-point of the dosage range as my starting point. As an example, for the 240 - 260mg per day range, I would have used the figure '250'.

V.

P.S. I invite everyone to check my calculations. Suffering, as I do, from obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), I have a heightened sense of responsibilty. My calculations are provided in good faith. Oh, OCD, sometimes known as 'the doubting disease'.

[WaitingToExhale]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

Just wanted to wave hello to everyone - happy to see all of the familiar faces! It's odd how I have come full circle from MWO and Topa almost 2 years ago, to TSM and Nal for the past 8.5 months. Now back here ...

Watching closing and wondering if Bac may be my answer.

Those of you that knew me from the other site, know that while I had some early "glimmers" of success with TSM, in the long run it was not my answer - and I threw in the towel mid December. I followed TSM to the letter and am now in the camp that suggests that perhaps it is my daily drinking (Mediterranean Drinker) and/or the fact that I am 98% a wine drinker, that TSM did not work for me.

I suppose my biggest fear now is the fact that I do drink daily. And for a good portion of the day and evening. Never enough to black out, pass out or in most cases make a full idiot of myself, but I can easily consume 1.5 -2.0 bottle of Chard a day. I fear my drinking patterns may be quite dangerous with Bac.

Cheering all of you on while I make my decision. Thanks for sharing all of this information ..

WTE

[WitsEnd]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

For Virgil's baclofen statistics ... the least statistical entry, sorry!

Ok, so I'm female, I weigh (sorry for old fashioned measurements) about 10 and a half stone (don't have scales in house as was - till baclofen - a 12 year long bulimic and that has GONE now). I've put on about a further 3/4 lb with baclofen - but not sure if this is due to end of bulimic purging or bac/weight gain issue.

Titrated up on baclofen from July 2009 till now. Am on no other medication.

5 mg to 25 mg, first 3 days, then extra 10 mg every 3-5 days, listened to what my body told me I could tolerate. great dreams, lots of insomnia, but felt really refreshed on about 4 hours' sleep a night. Panic attacks but reduced anxiety,

Dosage divided equally into 3 and taken at 3 points during day. Was always a 5 pm till 9 pm drinker, so targeted this period.

Began baclofen as full-on drinker, not AF, but by about 70 mg was down to 2 glasses of wine a night, was really cynical and tried to do nothing to quell cravings or help baclofen, as I wanted to see if it worked. By about 165 down to espresso-sized glasses of wine.

Got to 165 mg by Sept then stayed at 165 mg for 3 months. In December titrated up quickly to 225 mg and experienced the switch, a complete cessation of craving, alcoholic thinking etc at 225 mg. Stayed at 225 mg for 14 days, then began to tirate down very slowly - was at 200 mg for a further 3 weeks - switch off cont. Now at 190 mg.

Doses to accommodate larger doses:
50 mg 3.30 a.m.
50 mg 8 a.m.
50 mg 1 p.m.
50 mg 5 p.m.

As I reduce my dose, I intend to keep dose clustered around 1 pm and 4 pm, to tackle my drinking danger point.

[Virgil]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

WitsEnd;799271 wrote: For Virgil's baclofen statistics ... the least statistical entry, sorry!

Hi WitsEnd,

On the contrary, you have kindly provided a wealth of information - for the benefit of everyone.

Thank you!

V.

P.S. BTW, I love your username.

[Virgil]

Baclofen Dosage 'Poll'

WaitingToExhale;799115 wrote: Just wanted to wave hello to everyone - happy to see all of the familiar faces! It's odd how I have come full circle from MWO and Topa almost 2 years ago, to TSM and Nal for the past 8.5 months.

Hi WTE,

Great to see you on MWO!

Also come full circle, having started out on MWO exactly one year ago, almost to the day. I was on TSM for 9.5 months (38 weeks). I truly hope that baclofen is going to be my saviour and am very optimistic.

It will be good to see what you decide to do and, whatever your choice, here's wishing you much progress.

V.