Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

[Chocolate Mousse]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

8

I did come down fairly quickly from the bac. As I was not taking it for long about two weeks and had only titrated up to 40mg - 50mg daily but i was fine. good job! How are you getting on?

[eight days a week]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Ah, so glad you came off it without any problems at all Mousse

I'm ok thanks, still drinking way too much (up to the equivalent of two bottles of wine a day) but still taking my Nal, and titrating up on the Bac.

Looking forward to a better future!

[Brave Hearted]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Hi all thanks for that Moussie, I only take the nal as and when a couple fo times a week at the most and use it to nutralise the effects of al not reduce the craving as for me thats what the bac does. Sorry to hear you are off the bac, lets hope the nal works for you !! rooting for you !

Bhxx

[Charlieboy]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Hey there

I'm from London and sounds Brave Hearted, 8 days and Choc Mousse are from the Uk! Hi!
I have only just discovered Baclofen. I have a tendency to go on very horrendous binges and thought I would give it a go? Where in yr opinions is best place to order it? How do I start and do I take it forever? Can I expect to be able to moderate my drinking on it or at least try or is this dangerous? That is if I'm honest my ultimate aim. But who knows, perhaps Baclofen will take away that desire....seems to have done for othrs. I think anxiety, especially social anxiety and that feeling of awkwardness in social situaations(especially when everyone is drinking alot) is one of the main reasons I go on benders so I am excited that this may help? Wd love to hear how its helped u
Sorry so many q's
p.s I am 32, 6'0, about 11 stone, I thought that wd help u recommend me the correct dosages...
Many Thanks, hope to hear from u
Charlieboy

[Chocolate Mousse]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Hi charlieboy

and :welcome:

I have copied this from Zenstyle to give you info but you will get more here, but just to get you started:-

Ordering: (Disclaimer: I am not 'recommending' 4RX.com, simply stating they are the cheapest online pharmacy I?ve found for Baclofen and also the fastest delivery.)

4RX.com Buy Generic Lioresal is where I order mine at .28c/pill. 200 x 10mg costs $56.00 + $18.75 shipping. For 400 x 10mg the shipping is $27.75. (The shipping went down since my last order! Dammit!)

As a returning customer, 4RX gives you the choice of 10% off or 20% more pills. The extra pills are the best deal.

I?ve also ordered Baclofen from Canada Online Pharmacy at .74c/pill. The pills from both places are exactly the same - same blister packs, pills, etc.

In my case, the 4RX delivery takes 9 - 14 days. Canada Online took 22 days.

Here's a safe titration schedule to begin Baclofen: (Disclaimer: this is a personal opinion.)

(15mg) 3 x 5mg daily for 3 days.

(30mg) 3 x 10mg daily for the next 3 days.

Then add on 10mg daily and stay with that for 3-5 days before progressing to the next amount, depending on how it reacts with your system.

If you're not tired you can titrate faster. If you're tired, just take your time. It's different in each individual. Some people experience more somnolence than others in the early stages of taking Baclofen. Let your body guide you as to how fast you titrate.

There's a debate whether one reaches their "switch" at a lower dosage if one titrates slowly. I titrated slowly (to 100mg in 5 weeks). I was fine at 90mg, I added on the last 10mg just to be sure. I've now titrated down to 80mg + 20mg p.r.n. (if I'm going into a drinking situation or I feel a craving).

I read an article from a reputable website where they recommend, at 80mg/daily, to take it 4 x 20mg, which is what I do. Otherwise, depending on what your schedule is and when your cravings are worst, you can choose to take larger doses at certain times of the day.

Everyone?s body and elimination of Baclofen is different. There is no ?set in stone? amount to titrate to. Please use Dr. Ameisen?s titration as a guideline for yourself.

Dr. Ameisen?s Titration:

Ameisen titrated up to 3.6mg per kilo (270mg/daily) at which dose he became indifferent towards alcohol.

He stayed at that dose for 12 days then, due to the fact that he was experiencing somnolence, he titrated down to 1.6mg/kilo (120mg/daily) and he stayed at that dose for a long time. Today he continues to take 30-50mg/daily.

Whilst titrating up, and at the lower dosage of 120mg/daily, he took an additional 20-40mg p.r.n. (on an as-needed basis/once daily) if he was experiencing cravings ? this would produce a state of deep relaxation within the hour, followed by somnolence.

(1 kilo = 2.2 pounds.)

Interesting Facts:

As well as alcoholism, Ameisen had a pre-existing anxiety disorder ? the lower dosage of 120mg/daily took care of both anxiety and symptoms of alcohol dependence. (He came off his anxiety meds.)

Interestingly, before experimenting with high dosage Baclofen, Ameisen had tried Naltrexone (50md/daily) and Campral (2g/daily) for 12-18 months each but discontinued as they didn?t stop his cravings or relapses. He then went onto Baclofen (180mg/daily) for his anxiety but didn?t exceed that dosage as he was unaware that higher dosages were safe. He took that for 12 months - it didn?t suppress cravings or relapses. He then tried Topamax (300mg/daily) for 3 months and discontinued as, again, no reduction in cravings or relapses.

He researched Baclofen and realized it had the potential to suppress cravings and alleviate anxiety simultaneously. He calculated the amount needed for body weight based on a study in rats and the fact that neurologists were using up to 270mg/daily (long term) for multiple sclerosis and 300mg/daily in spasticity.

He then went back on Baclofen at 30mg/daily, adding 20mg/daily every third day. He used 20-40mg p.r.n. From Day 1 anxiety was reduced, muscular tension began to subside and sleep was more restful. It took him 5 weeks to reach 270mg/daily at which point he was indifferent towards alcohol.

His daily consumption prior to Baclofen was typically 750ml of Scotch a day.

He?s been abstinent since January 9, 2004.

Dr. Ameisen's Book:

"The End of My Addiction" by Oliver Ameisen, M.D. Available at Amazon.com or your local book store.

The following is my synopsis of the available facts pertaining to the use of Baclofen. (I may have erroneously omitted pertinent information.)

Baclofen

Class:
Skeletal muscle relaxant, centrally acting.

Description:
It is an agonist specific to mammalian GABAB receptors. It's beneficial effects result from actions at spinal and supraspinal sites. A very beneficial property of baclofen is that tolerance does not seem to occur to any significant degree in that baclofen retains its therapeutic anti-spasmodic effects even after many years of chronic use. (Baclofen can also be used to treat hiccups.)

Mechanism of action:
Baclofen produces its effect via modulating the GABAB receptor, similar to the drug GHB which also has the same mechanism of action and similar effects. However, there are some pharmacological differences in that baclofen appears to have reduced abuse and dependence potential. The modulation of the GABAB receptor is what produces baclofen's range of therapeutic properties.

Pharmacology:
May inhibit transmission of reflexes at spinal level, possibly by action (hyperpolarization) at primary afferent fiber terminals, resulting in relief of muscle spasticity. Baclofen has CNS depressant properties.

Absorption:
Rapidly and extensively absorbed.

Elimination:
Primarily by the kidneys in unchanged form.

Baclofen is used for:
On Label: The treatment of spastic movement, especially in instances of spinal cord injury, spastic diplegia, multiple sclerosis, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (Lou Gehrig's Disease) and trigeminal and glossopharyngeal neuralgias.

Anxiety: Baclofen has been shown to be as effective as diazepam in uncomplicated alcohol withdrawal syndrome.

Alcohol Abuse: An Italian study showed that it was effective in promoting alcohol abstinence in patients with severe liver cirrhosis.

Addictions: Dr. Olivier Ameisen, a French-American associate professor of medicine and a cardiologist at Weill Cornell Medical College of Cornell University, reported in 2004 in the journal Alcohol and Alcoholism that he successfully used Baclofen to completely suppress his own alcohol addiction. In his paper, he called for randomized trials of high-dose Baclofen to be conducted to test the therapeutic model he had proposed. He renewed his call for clinical trials in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). His therapeutic model was reproduced by Dr. William Bucknam, who published a case report in Alcohol and Alcoholism, and by Roberta Agabio et al. who published another case in Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology. Ameisen believes, based on his own experience and other anecdotal evidence, that Baclofen acts on some mechanism within the brains of addicts to suppress cravings brought on by addiction to various substances such as alcohol, cocaine, and heroin.

Ameisen, who currently is a visiting professor of medicine at State University of New York Downstate Medical Center, authored Le Dernier Verre (The Last Glass, titled The End of My Addiction in English) to inform public opinion and physicians. Since his book has been released, hundreds of patients have been treated in academic centers and rapidly become "indifferent to alcohol". Also, clinical trials are finally being mounted as a result of public pressure. Recently, based on Ameisen's therapeutic model, some trials have been conducted in using Baclofen to treat cocaine addiction. While no final study has been released, people have said once they took Baclofen they felt their desire for cocaine plummet almost overnight. There is a report that Baclofen has beneficial role in the management of reflux disease.

History:
Historically Baclofen was designed to be a drug for epilepsy in the 1920s. The effect on epilepsy was disappointing but it was found that in certain patients spasticity decreased. Baclofen was and is still given orally with variable effects. In severely affected children, the oral dose is so high that side effects appear and the treatment loses its benefit. How and when Baclofen came to be used in the spinal sac is not really clear but this is now an established method for the treatment of spasticity in many conditions.

Drug Interactions:
CNS (Central Nervous System) depressants - May cause increased sedative effects.

If you are taking other medications you may check for their interactions with Baclofen at: Drugs.com | Drug Interactions Checker

Adverse Reactions:
Cardiovascular: Hypotension, palpitations, chest pain.
CNS: Drowsiness, weakness in lower extremities, dizziness, seizures, headache, numbness, euphoria, depression, confusion, lethargy, insomnia, hallucinations, paresthesia, asthenia, anxiety, agitation.
Dermatologic: Pruritus, rash, alopecia.
EENT: Tinnitus, blurred vision, taste disorder, nasal congestion.
GI: Nausea, vomiting, dry mouth, constipation, diarrhea, abdominal pain, anorexia.
Genitourinary: Urinary frequency, enuresis, dysuria, impotence.
Respiratory: Dyspnea, pneumonia, hypoventilation.
Miscellaneous: Hypotonia, slurred speech, muscle pain, ankle edema, excessive perspiration, weight gain, back pain.

Precautions:
Pregnancy: Category C .
Lactation: Excreted in breast milk.
Renal Function: Administer with caution. Dosage reduction may be necessary.
Epilepsy and psychotic disorders: Use with caution because of potential exacerbations.
Stroke: Baclofen has not significantly benefited patients with stroke; these patients also have poor drug tolerance.

New Information on Pregnancy and Breast Feeding:

Pregnancy:
There is a medical case report about a very bad case of Baclofen withdrawal in a newborn baby. It would therefor be highly inadvisable to take Baclofen if you are or think you will get pregnant.

Breast Feeding:
Thomas Hale, the author of "Breastfeeding and Mothers' Milk", says that Baclofen is generally safe and well tolerated in babies who are breastfeeding. However, his information comes from mothers taking the normal 30mg or so dose. We have no idea how it will impact breastfeeding babies at higher doses, so Physician supervision is a must for breastfeeding mothers.

Overdosage:
Symptoms: Vomiting, muscular hypotonia, muscle twitching, drowsiness, accommodation disorders, coma, respiratory depression, seizures (oral), drowsiness, lightheadedness, dizziness, somnolence, respiratory depression, seizures (intrathecal).

Patient Information:
? If dose is missed it should be taken within 1 hour. Do not double up on doses.
? Full effectiveness of drug may not occur until several weeks after initiation of drug therapy.
? Do not discontinue medication abruptly - hallucinations or seizures may occur.
? Diabetic patients - false elevation of blood glucose may occur, monitor blood glucose carefully.
? Avoid intake of alcoholic beverages or other CNS depressants.
? Avoid sudden position changes to prevent orthostatic hypotension.
? Report the following symptoms to health care provider: dizziness, nausea, hypotension, urinary frequency, retention, painful urination, headache, seizures, weakness.
? Baclofen may cause drowsiness, use caution while driving or performing other tasks requiring mental alertness.

Withdrawal syndrome:
Discontinuation of Baclofen can be associated with a withdrawal syndrome which resembles benzodiazepine withdrawal and alcohol withdrawal. Withdrawal symptoms are more likely if Baclofen is used for long periods of time (more than a couple of months) and can occur from low or high doses. The severity of Baclofen withdrawal depends on the rate at which Baclofen is discontinued. Thus, to minimise Baclofen withdrawal symptoms, the dose should be tapered down slowly when discontinuing Baclofen therapy. Abrupt withdrawal is most likely to result in severe withdrawal symptoms. Acute withdrawal symptoms can be stopped by recommencing Baclofen.

Withdrawal symptoms:
May include auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, tactile hallucinations, delusions, confusion, agitation, delirium, disorientation, fluctuation of consciousness, insomnia, inattention, memory impairments, perceptual disturbances, anxiety, depersonalization, hypertonia, hyperthermia, formal thought disorder, psychosis, mania, mood disturbances, restlessness, and behavioral disturbances, tachycardia, seizures, tremors, autonomic dysfunction, hyperpyrexia, extreme muscle rigidity resembling neuroleptic malignant syndrome and rebound spasticity.

To avoid withdrawal symptoms:
It is imperative that you keep a back-up supply of Baclofen in case of all eventualities. If an order goes missing, or you forget to place an order, you will then have enough Baclofen on hand to avoid having to titrate off it too quickly.

Trade names:
Lioresal
Kemestro
Vioridon
Pacifen
Bacmax
APO-Baclofen (Canada)
Gen-Baclofen (Canada)
PMS-Baclofen (Canada)
ratio-Baclofen (Canada)


Zenstyle's Baclofen Titration:

Started Baclofen on 5/23/09

15mg/daily = 3 days
30mg/daily = 3 days
40mg/daily = 1 day
50mg/daily = 2 days (Titrated too fast (for me), plus I?d been drinking and the side effects were heightened, so I titrated back down)
40mg/daily = 2 days
30mg/daily = 6 days (I started a 30 day AF here)
40mg/daily = 4 days
50mg/daily = 2 days (Felt like I could titrate faster at that point as it was established in my system)
60mg/daily = 2 days
70mg/daily = 2 days
80mg/daily = 2 days (This is where I felt the start of the switch)
90mg/daily = 4 days
100mg/daily = 6 days

7/1/09 ? titrated back down to 80mg + 20mg p.r.n.

Everyone's titration is different, depending on the individual. If you found this thread through a Google search, please check out the rest of the Baclofen threads in the Meds Forum of My Way Out. You will be able to find other people's titration experiences there.

[Charlieboy]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Many thanks

Incredibly useful...many thanks

Does it tend to lead to abstinence or do people find they can indeed remain moderate?

Cheers. I will probably order mine from Pharmacy Online in Uk, i have heard it mentioned here. If anyone recomends this, please let me know

Tks

[eight days a week]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Hi charlie,

Nice to meet you here, stay in touch

I ordered Bac from Inhouse, and was very happy with the service - though you'll be hit by a customs charge if you order over ?18's worth (I think you can order lots of little orders of ?17 with free-shipping - take a look!)

All the best to you, looking forward to seeing how you get on

eight

[Virgil]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Charlieboy;796570 wrote: I'm from London and sounds Brave Hearted, 8 days and Choc Mousse are from the Uk! Hi!

Hi fellow Brits,

I'm also another UKer. Lived in and around London for the last 34 years. Still get into London every few months. So, hello from me!

I should add that communicating on forums is a pleasure that crosses all boundaries - be they national, international or whatever. It's just that we Brits are often in the minority on some of the major forums and I feel a special need to say 'hello' to my fellow countrymen.

Nuff said. Don't want to be accused of hijacking Choc Mousse's thread.

V.

[Brave Hearted]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Hi Charlie and welcome, I am indeed in the UK I have researched it and 4rx is the cheapest place to get baclofen. I mod on baclofen, if you want to read how I do it and I have posted quite a lot ( not got the time just now to give you a full run down) go to the memberes list at the top and find me and your can then click on my previous post if you wnat and read my experience and how I have fortunaltey been able to moderate my drinking ( I too was a binge drinker). YOu may also like to look at naltrexone as quite a few people (me included) choose to combine the two drugs with good results. Good luck to you charlie .

How is it going on the Naltrezone Moussie ?

[beatle]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Virgil;796826 wrote:
...I should add that communicating on forums is a pleasure that crosses all boundaries - be they national, international or whatever.
V.

yes, it's all about communication, crossing all borders-- be they national, international, rational or irrational:wd:

[Chocolate Mousse]

Chocolate Mousse's Baclofen Journey

Hi BH

Hope you are good, you certainly seem to be by your threads and good luck in your new relationship, i really mean that:l Well I've just finished my first week on Nal. My drinking came way down. it is hard for me to get an average of how much I was drinking previously as I too am a binge drinker, but I definitely noticed a difference on the Nal straight away. Drinking too much but still at a lot lower level and cravings much lower. I got no side effects as such apart from all the good stuff! I am keeping an account of my drinking/cravings/af and will keep this up.

Much love to us all but particularly Mary Anne (any news?)

CM xxx