eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

[eight days a week]

Hi guys

I'm pretty new here, but found having a progress thread deeply beneficial to me on another forum I used to be an active member on, and so I hope folk don't think me too selfish to start one here too.

As well as forcing me to track my progress (and my daily units), it gave me a place to express my emotions at times when I needed to (I am pretty isolated and don't have much support, so to get things off my chest now and then is invaluable to me).

I tend to write a book in most of my posts, so in this one I'll give a short intro and a summary of where I've been and what's happening now. I intend to make a second post with the full story, for those who might be having trouble sleeping and need something to send them off to the land of nod!! My situation is a little complicated (but I guess most of ours are!)

The short version: I've been taking Nal as outlined in Dr Eskapa's book (following The Sinclair Method - take Nal one hour before drinking) for five and a half months now. In early December I felt on the cusp of being 'cured' by Nal. I felt I was only drinking out of habit, the pleasure from it had all gone. Drink had lost its magical allure. At that point I believe if I had followed the advice to start having AF (and Nal) free days, the upregulation of endorphins and positive reinforcement of alternate activities may have led me along the path to a true 'cure' through Nal.

Unfortunately, I suffer from Generalised Anxiety Disorder, and outside stresses in December led to a huge rise in anxiety, and I turned to the old reliable - the booze - to get me through it, because the meds I was being prescribed simply didn't help enough. I was soon drinking as much as I always was, got into quite a bad way again, and looked for additional help via Baclofen, which I'd first read about a long time ago.

Things have been getting a lot better over the last few weeks. Whether or not, had I come through that sticky patch, and just continued with the Nal, and would have been totally 'cured' eventually (it takes much longer it seems than the book states; at least six months for most) I will never know, because I was got so desperate I've also now started Baclofen.

So, I continue with the Nal, and over the last ten days or so have added in the Bac. Because I take diazepam for my anxiety and also have been drinking I've titrated up very slowly - am now up to 40mg a day. Even doing so slowly I've had tremendous problems with somnolence and dizziness/confusion/lack of co-ordination at times, but that's probably greatly to do with the 'cocktail' I'm on as a whole, and not just the Bac.

Drinking + Bac + diazepam is definitely not recommended by me, but it's all I've got right now. Luckily I am mostly at home and so relatively safe.

I don't know if it's the Bac at work yet, but in the last few days I've effortlessly gone from 24 UK units a day (about two bottles of wine) to 17 - a very encouraging drop! Tonight will be about 16. My anxiety is definitely, subtly, less pronounced, and I've been able to drop my diazepam use slightly without any extra anxiety. I'm also sleeping longer, deeper, and more pleasantly than I have for a long time.

I'm facing a juggling act here with the Nal and Bac. I want to be relieved of this awful illness first and foremost, but ultimately I will need to know what role each med is doing and what's doing the most work. I don't want to take two meds for the rest of my life if one's unnecessary! But the way I see it right now is that Bac's giving me a break from the hole I was in, not least through helping my anxiety. While I get back more on my feet I'll of course continue with Nal, because I have absolutely seen the positive effects of it on the 'pleasure' side.

I see myself adjusting Bac up and down, experimenting, and hopefully eventually reaching a good place. And I am hopeful

So, that's the short version!! Ladies and gentleman, fasten your seatbelts for the full enthralling story in my next post!!

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

About me: I'm a 34 year-old guy living in England. I've always been an anxious type and struggled with stress and (I believe) a touch of OCD since childhood. Since discovering drink almost twenty years ago I found something that not only relieved my anxiety, particularly socially, for many years, but something that I absolutely loved the endorphin 'rush' from - so much so that I could never have enough.

From university onwards I've had at least a couple of pints of lager every night, and most nights at least a couple more. I've also taken every opportunity to binge myself silly when given the opportunity, and got into all kinds of ridiculous situations along the way.

Six years ago both my parents fell gravely ill at the same time, and I gave up a successful ex-pat life abroad to come back and help them full-time. Ever since then I've been a carer for disabled parents, been increasingly socially isolated, and drunk even more to cope.

Looking back there hasn't been an anxious or stressful time in my life when I haven't used drink as my only coping mechanism. I need to learn the skills to deal with such events without the booze, or - Nal or not - I will most probably always continue to drink to wipe out my emotions....but as I've learnt suppressing emotions by whatever means always leads to more emotional trouble further down the line.

Further trauma and drinking meltdown In the autumn of '08 a series of incredibly traumatic events led me to start drinking 24/7 for the first time ever, a situation I very quickly got stuck in. I was diagnosed with Panic Disorder, Generalised Anxiety Disorder, and co-morbid (what a lovely word!) Alcohol Dependency Disorder (aka, I am an alkie!)

Three in-patient detoxes followed in the next five months. At the third time of trying I was then effortlessly abstinent for four months, partly because I'd learned my lesson, but mainly because I had the benefit of a full-time daily support program, which especially gave me support with my anxiety.

After that finished I was isolated again, stuck at home as a carer, with booze always in the home. I realised life as it was set up for me then wasn't conducive to complete abstinence, so I started The Sinclair Method, taking Nal one hour before I drank each and every time.

Recent medicationI had a few collapses back in to 24/7 drinking, and was prescribed diazepam to help recover, and for anxiety. I've been taking up to 12mg daily ever since August (now down to 8mg) so I'm now dependent on that (which I hate). Usually I took it just during the day to keep me calm, with drinking taking over for the same effect at night.

I was continually pushed towards an SSRI by my doctor and psychiatrist for my GAD, but I've tried them before and not been able to cope with the side effects. In the end I suggested a beta-blocker to my regular doctor which has anti-anxiety effects, and he put me on it.

It helped a huge amount, and this period of reduced anxiety coincided with my feeling that Nal (TSM stylee) was becoming a cure for me. Unfortunately, as a beta-blocker is a heart med, my doc thought I'd better get my heart checked out too, and they found I have an arrhythmia as well as an unusually fast heart-rate. So, they switched my beta-blocker to a more cardio-specific one (with no anti-anxiety properties).

My anxiety shot through the roof over the next few weeks, and then some external stressful events pushed me back to the booze 24/7. In desperation, I decided to give Bac a go too.

So, here I am I've seen a specialist who's prepared to prescribe me Baclofen and also continue TSM on Nal because of the benefits I've felt. I've seen my cardiologist who's agreed to put me back on the beta-blocker that helped my anxiety, but at a higher dose that will offer me more cardio-protection. Who knows, that in itself may have been enough for TSM alone to work? I'll never know now, at least not yet, as I'm now on Baclofen, which seems to be helping a lot so far.

Anything else, you want to say eight, you are boring the pants off the forum here? Yes, there is, thank you very much! I enjoy writing, growing plants, art, and video games. My dream is to get myself fit and able to lead a normal life, and then I want to help others, and pursue my lifelong dream of being a writer. I'm considering charity work, but am also interested in complementary therapies, and tai chi and yoga. My dream is to travel the world again as I did in such a carefree manner in my younger days, though I am wiser and more cautious now, of course.

So that's it then, finally??? Yes, impatient person who is writing all these bolded parts! That's my story, more or less. I hope one day it may help others, as well as being a huge tonic for me to tell my story. From now on I'll just record my units drunk and progress here. Please anyone feel free to use this thread to discuss any issues that come up either from what I or others write.

In the spirit I mean to continue then, for the record:

Monday 18th Jan - 24 UK units
Tues 19th - 17 units
Weds 20th - 17 units

Thank you for letting me introduce myself

eight

[BGH]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Hi Eight!

Hi there - good to read your story - not boring! Everyone has a story and none of them are boring, in fact most people are far more interesting than one would think once they loosen up and share.

I'm struggling too but have only been on Nal for 3 1/2 months - I know you, Eight, have seen my posts on "the other site."

Just recently upped my dose from .25 Nal to .50 which is the recommended dose, and already seeing renewed control. But the struggle continues because of anxiety and depression.

I've thought about starting Bac too but worry about the cost. If doses have to be increased upwards every few days one would end up taking many dollars worth each day - not really in the cards for me.

I have not read the Dr. A book but Eight do you know if one would have to stay on the Bac forever? Or once "cured" just rely on Nal and give up the Bac? I've not seen this discussed and you may have a short answer for me until I can get the book. Good to see you back!! Hope all is well

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Hello dear friend, how lovely to see you here

I'm doing pretty well thanks, your good self?

I would say stick with the Nal for now BGH, as you've been on it for such a short time, and are seeing great results already from the increased dose.

I know we've talked elsewhere about the 5-HTP that seems to stave off my depression (reminds me, must take that and my vitamins soon and get to bed!) The anxiety is a harder one for me right now, but as someone who's suffered from depression in the past you absolutely have my empathy on both fronts.

Bac is very cheap indeed compared to Nal. I think the dose I'm taking right now is costing me pennies a day, and it's already helping my anxiety. But you're right, if it has to go upwards all the time then the cost will increase probably to dollars a day

I've read Dr Ameisen's book and he went to a very high dose till he lost interest in alcohol, and then came down to a much smaller 'maintenance' dose once he felt he was cured (and by all accounts he still is!) He takes it every day, whereas with Nal you would take it only when you choose to drink once 'cured'.

I'm doing things differently from Dr A though. Once they change my beta blockers back to the anti-anxiety ones that also stop my heart pounding all the time, it may give Nal enough time to work for me. In the meantime the Bac keeps my anxiety at bay and is helping me off the diazepam (which I hate for the side effects). If I can do that at the amount of Bac I'm taking without increasing too much it's far cheaper than the extra drink or two I'd have to calm my heart down. If Nal doesn't work enough I may go all out on the Bac, but I think I will always take Nal as it has worked at a meaningful level for me.

Sorry, I guess I'm a slightly complicated case!

All the best to you, please do keep in touch through here

[startingover]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Hi there Eight, just wanted to welcome you and say I loved your writing style!
I dont take meds, other than ADs, but I have managed to get sober and make some really good friends here, so hope you stick around, keep posting and enjoy a bucketload of support that this place has to offer.

[Virgil]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

It's great to see you on MWO, 8! Just like old times, eh? I think we've found our new home.

I love reading your posts and I'm sure you'd make a great professional writer. Perhaps you could combine some of your many interests with writing.

It's good to see that baclofen appears to be helping your anxiety - already. Sadly, for me, the baclofen has not had that effect, as yet. In fact, while I've been on baclofen, my anxiety has been sky-high at times but that may (hopefully!) just be coincidence.

Your good friend.

V.

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

startingover;794158 wrote: Hi there Eight, just wanted to welcome you and say I loved your writing style!
I dont take meds, other than ADs, but I have managed to get sober and make some really good friends here, so hope you stick around, keep posting and enjoy a bucketload of support that this place has to offer.
Thank you so much startingover for your kind words. I'me sure it was a rather indulgent intro, but I needed the distraction of writing last night, and my greatest hope is that one day my posts may help others in a similar position.

The support here seems absolutely tremendous, I am so glad to have found this place

Virgil;794278 wrote: It's great to see you on MWO, 8! Just like old times, eh? I think we've found our new home.

Yes my friend, it feels very comfy here, doesn't it, people have been very kind already

Virgil;794278 wrote: I love reading your posts and I'm sure you'd make a great professional writer. Perhaps you could combine some of your many interests with writing.

It's good to see that baclofen appears to be helping your anxiety - already. Sadly, for me, the baclofen has not had that effect, as yet. In fact, while I've been on baclofen, my anxiety has been sky-high at times but that may (hopefully!) just be coincidence.

Your good friend.

V.

Thank you also for your warm words V. And what an idea to combine my passions! But, as I've written elsewhere, I'm so sorry to hear that the anxiety has been so high - boy do I understand how that feels. Fingers, toes, and everything else crossed that it's nothing to do with the Bac.

By the way, if anyone would like to read about my progress on TSM until this point please PM me, it's all written in my usual 'careful detail' (just to put it as kindly as I can to myself!) on a forum that I would no longer recommend to anyone. Many of the members are lovely, incredible people, but I have great reservations about that site...and so I won't endorse it publicly, or advertise it anymore.

I guess perhaps the most interesting aspects of my progress thread there may be my initial side effects from Nal, as well as how I later thought myself 'cured' by TSM on the endorphin side, only to descend back into drinking (almost) as badly as ever before due to anxiety, just a few short weeks later. That is the 'rollercoaster' of a ride that is The Sinclair Method so many have experienced in a nutshell (or rather, in the case of my thread, a forest of nut trees!!)

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Well, I don't intend to post here daily about everything, but whilst I am here, yesterday saw 40mg of Bac, and 19 UK units (almost two bottles of wine) over an eight hour period from about five hours after waking. 4 x 2mg of diazepam (I don't seem to need it as much for my anxiety now I'm on Bac - this is very welcome indeed).

Today has seen 25mg of Baclofen so far, I may try to push 45 today - why not? 6mg of diazepam (due to my GAD and a nasty panic attack I needed 4mg of that just to be able to leave the house first thing and get through seeing my useless psychiatrist), and so far 12 UK units of alcohol in the last five hours, five hours after waking (i.e. from lunchtime). Today looks like being around 20 units again, but spread over a longer period.

I think I could have tried to have done the day not drinking until the evening if I'd been on the Bac, but I wouldn't have been able to drive out this morning on that as well as the diazepam, so I couldn't take any till I got home

Oh well, onwards and upwards - a day at home tomorrow, so I can take the Bac all day long, not worry about SEs, and truly see how it affects my need to drink

eight

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Yesterday saw 8mg diazepam (1mg taken irregularly when felt needed for anxiety, as is usual for me).

40 mg Bac - with the sedatives and drink as well I feel unpleasantly woozy and disoriented, so I didn't think I could manage the extra 5mg. I'm going to stay on 40mg for a few days I think. I've also been getting the numbness in my arm especially, so until the side effects pass I won't go higher.

17 units of alcohol over about ten hours. The funny thing is that I wanted to drink more to feel totally relaxed (I have a very high tolerance for alcohol as long as I'm eating properly). I don't know if it's the cocktail of meds (plus alcohol), the Bac, or the Nal, but I just couldn't stomach any more booze. I've had this feeling on Nal before, but it's interesting that it's come back in the last few days on and off.

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Yesterday was the same as the day before for the meds. I'm glad to be consistently down to 8mg diazepam a day rather than the 12mg I was on, and aim to get this down further over the coming weeks. I $%&ing hate the stuff (if you'll pardon my typing!)

Unfortunately I drank 21 units over twelve hours yesterday. I started playing online video games late last night, and there is just so much 'oh just one more' (remind anyone of booze?) about them I stayed up till three, and drank more as a result.

The theory of TSM is that you have to 'extinguish' certain triggers and behaviours that you associate with drinking. Playing video games (yes yes, I am 34!) is a huge one for me that is not nearly extinguished yet.

Today's looking like the same sort of total, because my friend who is helping me most with this (but doesn't understand either the anxiety, the heart, or the booze problem, really) and lecturing me to cut down on my units took me for a pub lunch - much earlier than I would have drunk otherwise. And the irony is he probably drove back home right on the alcohol limit, which I would never do!!

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be a daily blog, but I feel the need to write right now. I need the distraction.

Your friend, best wishes to all,

eight

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Hmmm, drinking 20+ UK units a day, 8mg diazepam, managed 35mg of Bac yesterday (took my Nal of course, that's a given).

I don't think I've been eating enough the last few days.

Not sure if that's connected but at the end of my drinking yesterday I woke up on the floor - I must have fallen off my chair. This kind of thing never happens to me at these kinds of alcohol levels, so I can only blame it on the Bac + booze + benzo mix. Not good. I feel stuck where I am right now though and don't know how to get out from here.

8

[hangingon]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Hi Eight,
I just sent you a pm before reading this last post. I hope you are feeling better and be thankful you did not break any bones. Today is a new day.
hanging

[crown86]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

8

Glad I found your thread. Sound like you are on one heck of a mix. glad your under and MD's care with it all.

Waking up on the floor eh? That use to be a common thing for me...could be the kitchen floor..the home office floor..the front porch or the dreaded lawn with the neighbors waking me at 6am walking their dogs.then I would wake up scratch my head like how the hell did I end up here ?..hmm well it really doesnt matter...damn I need a drink to rid the fog and fuzzies.

It can only get better my friend

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Thank you so much my friends

crown, I have been drunk like that before, oh my goodness, plenty of times!! - but the Bac + diazepam + booze combination seems absolutely lethal. The lack of proper eating may be a biggish factor, but I've raely felt as spaced out as I did last night - and this stuff is meant to be helping me!!

Oh well, things aren't so bad today, and tomorrow is yet another day. Life goes on

eight

[crown86]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

8

You better start eating right or I am going to show up at your house and force some of those fish and chips down your throat LOL

Your Yank friend

Crown