eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

[Spectra]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

eight days a week;798796 wrote: 26 UK units of alcohol. I suppose it's not too much really over a 14 hour period -

Hi 8,

Okay it's lecture time, your weekly allowance is 21 to 28 units. Don't try and kid yourself, 7x your recommended limit IS too much. Lecture over.

You've made a great start, you're here, and you CAN do this.

Three years ago I was smoking 30/40 a day, a pint or two at lunchtime or on the way home from work, then a couple of bottles of nice red of an evening - and I'd lived that way for as long as I can remember. I tried cutting down slowly for over a year but it didn't work.

Having tried everything to give up smoking in April 2008 I tried Varenicline/Champix. It worked like a dream and I've never been tempted since, not even close. But it taught me something (I believe) about the way my brain works, and that is that I'm sensitive to certain neurotransmitters. So I started looking for something similar for my alcohol addiction, and found MYO and Baclofen.

Baclofen, or any medication or supplement, cannot make you stop without some effort on your part. Wanting it to happen isn't enough. Trust me - how many times do you think I opened that next bottle of wine thinking "hmm, just a couple of glasses, I'll make up for it tomorrow"? I found that a high dose of Baclofen made me feel so wrecked that drinking on top was complete total self-indulgence. Within days of starting Baclofen I knew that I could get my life back, but I also knew I had to make some effort.

I'ts not going to be easy, but you'll find all the help you need here.

p.m. me if you like

Take care

S

p.s. my personal favourite was "it's not too much, I do it all the time" what kind of insane twisted logic is that, doing it once a week is bad doing it every night is..... what? I dunno???

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Dear Spectra,

Firstly, thank you so much for your support, including your such kind offer of personal contact, I may very well take you up on that

The weekly limits I think are an arbitrary government figure, just the same as the 'five a day' fruit and vegetable nonsense - I've had seven drinks mixed with healthy fruit juice today, so in their eyes I'm way over that already, (luckily I see through their nonsense, so had a lovely big mixed salad and loads of veggies with my homemade pasta tonight). I've seen alcohol specialists who think that two, three or even four pints a day is fine along with the occasional day off, and scoff at the government recommended allowances.

THAT SAID, I know I've been drinking way too much, and am cutting it down as we speak. Tonight will be up to six UK units less than last night. I'm moving back in the right direction after about five days of a blip.

My comment about not being too bad, I meant for someone who is such an alkie as me. Also, drinking over that time frame is not TOO bad for my liver (thank goodness I have a strong one - my latest tests all came back perfect - and this is for someone who drank a LOT more than this for a sustained period earlier this year. Quite frankly, I'm amazed, but know I can't push my luck much longer). On a night out with friends I would probably do 15 units in four or five hours, easily, which is more of a worry on the liver front imho.

Spectra;798897 wrote: Baclofen, or any medication or supplement, cannot make you stop without some effort on your part. Wanting it to happen isn't enough. Trust me - how many times do you think I opened that next bottle of wine thinking "hmm, just a couple of glasses, I'll make up for it tomorrow"? I found that a high dose of Baclofen made me feel so wrecked that drinking on top was complete total self-indulgence. Within days of starting Baclofen I knew that I could get my life back, but I also knew I had to make some effort.

Thank you so much my friend Yes, I know a lot of effort is needed on my part, there is no magic bullet, and I have that strength in me. I will do it, with my willpower and strength along with the help of Bac (perhaps), the continued Nal, and the change in my beta-blocker to quell my racing heart and my GAD (this is just as crucial as the rest imo - in fact it might well be the key component).

I'm trying to make all the effort I can. It's just been a bad week, though getting better through my own efforts

Bless you, thank you so much for your kind words and your support :l

eight

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Well, I didn't want to update daily, but this hasn't been a great week (although it's getting better!) so it really helps me to post here. I'm very grateful to this website for allowing me to do so.

Yesterday was the same on the meds, but I brought my drinking down to just over 20 UK units, which I was pleased with. At that drinking level, over so many hours, I barely ever feel tipsy, it just takes the edge of my anxiety. I do hope the beta-blockers will have an effect on that, but it's going to take another eight or so days for them to kick in.

I avoided taking any Bac shortly before bed last night, mindful of the info that it can leave you breathless. Unfortunately, I don't know whether it was that or drinking 20% less yesterday that meant I didn't wake up for once with dry mouth. This is all a bit of a juggling act of many different things for me right now...

What I did notice is that I didn't wake up breathless, which was very welcome. I also took 10mg Bac as soon as I woke up (along with all my other meds) and it seemed to help me stay calmer for longer before needing a drink. The thing is, I'm too scared not to take my beta-blocker for my heart as soon as I wake up too, and I've noticed breathlessness with that also (even before I started the Bac). An hour later I felt that same sensation, but no idea what it's due to

I think I may be taking Bac the wrong way? Maybe I need a bigger dose in the mornings to stave off cravings? It certainly seemed to work to some extent today, even though I'm still on very low dose. I think I'd been seeing it as similar to Nal - a progressive med. Take it for a while and it'll eventually cut the cravings in general. But, I'm starting to see it may be a totally different kettle of fish - I need to take it more during the day to have success, need to gradually up my dose, and it appears much more time-reliant upon dosage than the theoretical 'cure' with TSM (which says just take Nal 1 hour before you drink)???

Today I'm aiming for 45-50mg, up from 40 (which I've been on for quite a few days now). It feels like time to step up a little bit.

Best wishes to all

eight

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Yesterday:

19.2 UK units alcohol (down 1)
7 mg diazepam (down 1mg)
45mg Baclofen (up 5mg)
(sings in Christmassy voice) And a Natrexone an hour before I drank.

I hope for the same today. A reduction to 18 units would be marvellous, though.

[drink2much]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

HI Eight, I think you are doing great - just hang in there. I do think S is right when s/he says that we have to make an effort, no medication is just going to leap out at us and miraculously make us think "a drink, no, not me, I really don't want it" (well, Nal didn't do that for me, no way)

Maybe Nal works alongside other therapies/efforts, but I currently don't think that TSM (which suggests that if you take Nal one hour before drinking, drink all you want, and keep drinking as much as you want, then one day you'll wake up and discover you are only having 2 drinks a week!) is going to work for me.

I'm with you on the govt limits for drinking - and great to hear that your liver tests were good. But I agree, 26 units is on the high side.

Spectra, going to pm you about baclofen - I don't know much about it.
Thanks
D2x

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Thank you my friend!

The promise of Nal through TSM, and to an extent Baclofen on the Ameisen model is indeed that it's effortless. Others have seen it, but I personally can't believe it fully till I have experienced it myself. So I'm expecting to have to put in effort all the way.

I'm beginning to think that the 'wash out' days when you go AF and get Nal out your system, have upregulation of the opioid receptors and positive reinforcement of alternative behaviours may be key for some people. Unfortunately, I'm not there yet...

I agree - 26 units is ridiculous. I'm lucky with my liver - I believe the typical liver processes 1 UK unit per hour, but I know mine works much faster than that from the many breath tests I've taken (at rehab and by doctors - never by the police on the road). But it's only a matter of time before it starts screwing with my other organs. I just pray I can continue this slight improvement, every day.

Best to all

eight

[Lo0p]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Spectra;798897 wrote: Baclofen, or any medication or supplement, cannot make you stop without some effort on your part. Wanting it to happen isn't enough. Trust me - how many times do you think I opened that next bottle of wine thinking "hmm, just a couple of glasses, I'll make up for it tomorrow"? I found that a high dose of Baclofen made me feel so wrecked that drinking on top was complete total self-indulgence. Within days of starting Baclofen I knew that I could get my life back, but I also knew I had to make some effort.

I'm not trying to single you out Spectra, as I see this statement repeated time and time again around here. I just wish that the people saying it would qualify it as a personal experience. It flies in the face of mine which is completely, 100% the opposite of what you've said here.

I fall asleep, every night, with 4 bottles of wine IN MY ROOM that have been there for months, a kitchen cabinet STOCKED FULL of a selection of liquor and a fridge with a twelve pack in it. I drink whatever I want, whenever I want to. I drank 17 drinks in January, which is as much as I drank in ONE DAY last summer. I drank these 17 drinks because I forced myself to, to try and keep extinction going with TSM.

Wine was my DOC, every night when I fall asleep there are 4 bottles of it 10 feet from my head. I don't even think about them. When I do think about having a drink I don't think 'not tonight, you can do without it', I think 'uggh, no thanks'. When the one day a week comes where I promised myself I would drink to keep up with TSM, sometimes I just can't do it. I just plain don't want to.

I have to make an effort to drink, not the other way around. This is just my own personal experience with TSM and baclofen.

[crown86]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Loop

I agree, for myself TSM was effortless on my part..when the cravings came I daink through them..now the cravings don't come much and when they do and if I drink..they are mild..I cant get past 3 beers liquor has been complete erased from my mind all from TSM not me.

I am MINDBLOWN how effortless is was on my part I did everything the way my drunk ass usually did except I took a pill 1 hour prior. I keep waiting for the floor to drop it was so easy. I really though it was bullshit when I first heard of TSM..all I can say for myself..it's very real and saved my life.

I know it doesn't work for everyone but it did for me.

[crown86]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

8

It sounds like doing better thats awsome...you sound way more positive than back in December my friend..keep it up...hope you ate that steak

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

I really appreciate everyone's input on this thread, I think every post so far has given me something important to think about, thank you guys

Yesterday was the same as the day before, but with 9mg of diazepam as I felt I needed a bit more.

I think with the Nal especially, it seems that for some people it's more effortless than others. In early December I felt 'cured' on the endorphin level, but continued to drink out of habit. Then with a crisis I drank more and more, and ended up getting into a bit of a state. I think for Nal to make a difference to my life either I need a bit longer on it, or to start having AF days, which is beyond me right now. I've come to a personal conclusion that for some people the AF days, with the upregulation of endorphins and thus positive reinforcement of healthy alternative behaviours, may be key, and that if so I may be one of those people.

I've been taking 10mg Bac as soon as I wake for the last few days. From tomorrow I'll make that 15mg I think in the hope it helps keep cravings at bay for longer. The side effects seem to be wearing off more and more, apart from the tingling at times.

I'm also tempted to have a day on double the diazepam to try to get my drinking way down. I think if I have a day or two of much reduced units (12 is my long-term 'maintenance' drinking level, which Id be more than happy with short-term) I could get back on track.

Any thoughts / advice?




crown - haven't had that steak yet my friend, alas. Will get on the case today!

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

2nd Feb (yesterday here with just six minutes to go if I post quick :P)

7mg diazepam
50mg Bac
50mg Nal as per TSM, at least one hour before drinking, as always

Almost 23 UK units of alcohol

I played video games last night till the early hours of today. This is a huge trigger for me - sitting in front of my big TV, headset on, playing wargames. The adrenaline goes up, the beer keeps flowing. If TSM is ever going to work for me it needs to extniguish this trigger (or I need to play games AF on a Nal wash-out day for the extra endorphin reinforcement of a pleasurable activity).

Funnily enough I haven't felt too bad today, and my AL total looks like being much lower. My outlook seems to be changing slightly, that may be the beta-blockers kicking in, or...?

Best to all!

[drink2much]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Hi I do know what you mean by triggers. Could you change your game/sit somewhere different/so something else for a few days?

I never had wash out days when I did pleasurable activities the whole time I was on Nal. TSM assumes that you don't drink every day. Hmmmm.

Keep posting your progress and I do hope the Bac kicks in soon

D2x

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Many thanks d2m

By the theory of TSM I think I should carry on the trigger behaviour so that it's extinguished by doing it while drinking on Nal, but as I'm trying to cut down right now I think I'd better just avoid the video games for the time being, you're quite right.

TSM assumes you have AF free days, yes. The book seems to suggest that these will eventually occur as a natural part of the process, but they haven't yet with me! I thought you had one day a week AF when on TSM?

Yesterday was much the same in the end as the day before, but now up to 55mg Bac. I didn't do enough physically during the day so stayed up later and as a result drank more than I'd intended (like Pringles, once I start I just can't stop!) Gotta get busier today and tire myself out!

Hope everyone has a great day

[craving]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Good to see you over here. I am following your progress thread. Really hope this works for you!

[beatle]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Don't know why, but I haven't been on this thread before. (Maybe the thread title was misleading -- that is, in relation to how the thread progressed?)

Anyway, very interesting reading here. I've lots of thoughts and responses, but unfortunately not the time to write out all my various ideas, questions (and sometimes answers).

Perhaps I should just address one thing that might be causing misunderstanding.

Lo0p;799506 wrote: I'm not trying to single you out Spectra, as I see this statement repeated time and time again around here. I just wish that the people saying it would qualify it as a personal experience. It flies in the face of mine which is completely, 100% the opposite of what you've said here.

I fall asleep, every night, with 4 bottles of wine IN MY ROOM that have been there for months, a kitchen cabinet STOCKED FULL of a selection of liquor and a fridge with a twelve pack in it. I drink whatever I want, whenever I want to. I drank 17 drinks in January, which is as much as I drank in ONE DAY last summer. I drank these 17 drinks because I forced myself to, to try and keep extinction going with TSM.

Wine was my DOC, every night when I fall asleep there are 4 bottles of it 10 feet from my head. I don't even think about them. When I do think about having a drink I don't think 'not tonight, you can do without it', I think 'uggh, no thanks'. When the one day a week comes where I promised myself I would drink to keep up with TSM, sometimes I just can't do it. I just plain don't want to.

I have to make an effort to drink, not the other way around. This is just my own personal experience with TSM and baclofen.

I *think* that Lo0p's post was describing his experience with using baclofen together with Nal (according to TSM). From my understanding (from following Lo0p's progress), he could not have come to the point he has come to without the baclofen. It sounds to me like it is the baclofen working here, not TSM, since he is having a hard time following TSM because he just doesn't want to drink.

On the other hand, Lo0p is one of few who have reported complete disinterest in, in fact distaste for, alcohol when taking baclofen. I certainly have not experienced that (yet, anyway), although baclofen does cut way down on the reward mechanism associated with alcohol (for me), much as Nal is supposed to do in TSM. So, since Al has less allure, I naturally drink less. And when I do drink, it is mostly out of habit.

To change the subject, I think the food/eating issue deserves more attention. There has been some discussion of this on the Holistic Healing forum (and A LOT about supplements there, too)... do any of you go there (to Holistic Healing)? It used to be a hopping place, but it seems to be stagnating in recent months (maybe because I hopped over to this forum?:H)

I have a lot of thoughts (and experience) in the food area as related to alcohol (unfortunately).