eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

[Greg]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Best wishes 8!

Even though many of us would consider 70 mg/day to be a low dose of baclofen, it should be kept in mind that this is almost the maximum recommended dose of the drug under normal circumstances, so you should not be surprised if you already experience benefits (and of course some side effects). Only specialised use of baclofen goes above 75-80 mg per day, such as its use in serious neurological conditions and of course alcoholism.

I hope you find it to be extremely helpful.

[craving]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

so you almost doubled your dose of baclofen from the other day, and you drank 10 UK units less

40mg -> 70mg
25 UK units -> 15 UK units

i do not need a science education to figure where you will be if you move to 150+mg :H and later on maybe above 200+mg ...

Baclofen is going to help you my friend :good:

[craving]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Thought that might be helpful to see how Baclofen works



on the left side is a normal brain of an addicted - all red is craving
on the right side a brain threated with "experimental medication" - this experimental medication is BACLOFEN.

Quote from the leading medical who was doing this experiment :
Instead of the brain saying GO GO GO, it's ... I don't know - does not seem like it is worth going.

here the original movie http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=VPCABjMq3 3g&v=byain0Vo5mo[/video]]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Note: This experiment is based on cocaine addiction - the mode of action is similar to the one of Alcohol. The results would be equal.

[corkit]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

My husband and I have been on Nal now for 6 months and though we've seen some changes we're very interested in baclofen as well. Do you have to stay on Baclofen for a life time? Is it like Nal if you plan on drinking you should always take Nal first?

corkit

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Thank you so much for the encouragement guys, it means an awful lot. All I have in the offline world is a sister who doesn't understand and is not very caring, and a friend who's very supportive but doesn't understand at all.

There is much to reply to here, I hope to do so tomorrow. The last few days I have just been trying to get myself back on track.

corkit - yes, Baclofen you will need to take a 'maintenance' dose for life, which is why I tried Nal first.

So, hopefully a proper reply to all your kind messages tomorrow!

For the record then, yesterday:

9mg diazepam
12 UK units of alcohol
70 mg Bac

I think it will end up being the same today, certainly no more alcohol. The extra diazepam I've felt I've needed in the last few days, as my drinking level has come down. I haven't felt able to increase the Bac yet as I am still drinking and taking diazepam.

I am seriously considering my expert's advice that I try a home detox on a higher level, at the same time as increasing the Bac (beyond what he is prepared to prescribe, but shhh!). Already the Bac seems to have added an extra dimension of not liking alcohol even above and beyond the Nal, which is very encouraging

In the meantime I've arranged the first meeting to set up an inpatient (public) detox on Monday as back-up, as it'll take six weeks or more to get in there. I hope to be way better well before then, but you never know, and I'm determined to get myself better by whatever means necessary.

All the best to everybody

eight

[craving]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

eight days a week;809411 wrote:
I think it will end up being the same today, certainly no more alcohol. The extra diazepam I've felt I've needed in the last few days, as my drinking level has come down. I haven't felt able to increase the Bac yet as I am still drinking and taking diazepam.

8 - are there any cross interactions between diazepam and Baclofen?
As far as I know you can combine those things without problem ?

[bloggy]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Well Done 8 - You are going in the right direction!!

Keep it up!!

[Lo0p]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

eight days a week;809411 wrote: 12 UK units of alcohol

Holy F* 8! That's like 7 beers where I come from.

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Yesterday:

8.75mg diazepam
11.5 UK units alcohol
70mg Baclofen

(50mg Naltrexone under TSM, as always, at least one hour before drinking)

What's interesting is that as my diazepam and Baclofen have increased slightly, my drinking has quite effortlessly come down. As I've written, I believe TSM has already stopped my endorphin pleasure from alcohol, but I still drink because of anxiety. Baclofen hasn't seemed to help this so far, at least not noticeably, at 70mg per day. It has for the last few days though made alcohol less appealing in a different way to the Nal, somehow.

Lo0p's previously written that he believes the two (Bac and Nal) may be working in a synergistic fashion for him. I wonder if the same thing is happening for me? Interesting indeed, definitely something to keep an eye on! If I had felt no effects on the endorphin (pleasure) side from TSM after five months I might have given up on it totally, and just started Bac. But, the fact that I have long felt a change to my endorphin response to alcohol by taking Nal encouraged me to follow the two protocols in tandem.

One thing is clear - I continue to drink because of anxiety. Ultimately, either the Bac will reduce this so it's not an issue, or I will need to start dealing with the underlying causes. Some, like, Dr Ameisen, are feelings of unreasonable anxiety that have been with me for my whole life, and for no apparent reason. I believe my brain's always been chemically off-kilter in a sense. Long-term (once I'm off the booze!) I'll be experimenting to see if things like Tai Chi can help re-balance this aspect of me, as they seem to have in the past. Others are things that have affected me over the last few years especially, and are things I need to work through, in some cases with professionals (bereavement being one of them).

A proper reply to everyone who has kindly contributed to follow in about ten minutes or so...(depending on how long-winded I get :H)

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

crown, thank you so much for your support, my Yank Buddy! Yes, I'm determined, and yes I will get there. The journey's a bit scary, of course, but once the anxiety's down hopefully it should be an adventure! Hehe, I had the steak but the person who bought it for me chose me a lame, cheap piece of meat...yuk. You might need to fly over to bring me those fish and chips after all

craving - thank you for your drinking figures. It seems you were drinking a bit less than me most of the time, and a lot less than me some of the time. Also, your drinking career was a lot shorter I think. So it'll be interesting to see how the Bac compares for me to you when I manage to increase the dose.

That picture of the brain is fascinating, I will have to check out the video link

Greg - thank you for the encouragement! My specialist will let me go up to 100mg, I think. Of course, I am ordering from the internet, so I have extra, and am prepared to go as high as I need (or, as I can) to try to reach the 'switch'. I'm quite light, so I think around the 200mg mark or maybe just a little more may be enough for me.

craving;809579 wrote: 8 - are there any cross interactions between diazepam and Baclofen?
As far as I know you can combine those things without problem ?
Well, they both separately make me slightly sleepy and woozy. And I'm extremely sensitive to medicines.

There is no medical harm to the body, my specialist is sure, taking both together. But, I have to be careful safety-wise. That is why I haven't increased my Bac more quickly. Of course, alcohol makes all the side effects of both stronger, and I am still drinking. When I have a day that I do not have to do anything much, I may take a bigger dose of Bac early in the morning to see what the effect is. It may help me to cut down on the diazepam and the drink.

I do not want to quit the drink entirely (yet!) I am very scared of stopping suddenly, so I hope to taper down. That said I wouldn't mind going to just a couple of drinks straight away if extra Bac enabled me to do that.

bloggy;809616 wrote: Well Done 8 - You are going in the right direction!!

Keep it up!!

Thank you kindly, bloggy

Lo0p;809877 wrote: Holy F* 8! That's like 7 beers where I come from.

Is that a lot over 12 hours?! I mix drinks with 2 or just less UK units each (that's 50ml or just over of alcohol at 37.5%) so that's half a drink per hour over that time. I'm quite happy with that from where I came from in the last week or two, especially since my stomach problems are getting better and I'm eating more) :-) I may have one extra drink tonight. I don't know why, I really really fancy it Today will be my first day at 80mg Bac, I think tomorrow I may push to 90mg if I can, with a slightly bigger dose first thing.

Wish me luck this week, it could be a big one for me!!

Best to all

eight (hundred details more than anyone is interested in most probably :H)




(But, posting here is such great support for me; not only speaking to you guys - which is tremendous - but helping me get my thoughts - such as they are! - in order.)

[hoping4better]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

WOW, 8!!!! You've gone from having 24 or more units in a day to 12 -- in less than a month! I'd say that's quite an accomplishment. Especially if you are drinking all day long. I'm amazed.

Trying to get my dr onboard with the baclofen. I gave her some studies (thanks, Lo0p!) but haven't heard back yet.

You should be very proud of yourself.

[Mettaphorica]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

I'm probably not welcome here, but wanted to say, you are doing well, 8. Now a woman half way across the world can sleep at night not thinking about you all the time. It's also good to see you have some additional support and back up. it seemed at first you didn't have any and I was worried that you were really all alone (one can only glean so much from posts). You are probably right about the anxiety--you may be wired that way. Plenty of studies suggest that some people just are. I am, but I also had a bit of a problem childhood to cause it, and although meditation certainly helps, it doesn't take it away completely--I've learned to live with it and try and pursue things that matter to me anyway. Perhaps in time with the right tools and right support, you can do this, too. When you feel like dealing with anxiety and "stuff", a good therapeutic approach to try is ACT (Acceptance Commitment Therapy). It has had good results with anxiety, often better than CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy), which is the gold standard for treatment. There are self-help workbooks based on ACT for anxiety that you can pick up, if you wanted to look further into it and start reading about it for yourself. It's worth checking out, when you're ready. Well done, though.
cheers
Mettaphorica

[bloggy]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Mettaphorica;810273 wrote: I'm probably not welcome here, but wanted to say, you are doing well, 8. Now a woman half way across the world can sleep at night not thinking about you all the time. It's also good to see you have some additional support and back up. it seemed at first you didn't have any and I was worried that you were really all alone (one can only glean so much from posts). You are probably right about the anxiety--you may be wired that way. Plenty of studies suggest that some people just are. I am, but I also had a bit of a problem childhood to cause it, and although meditation certainly helps, it doesn't take it away completely--I've learned to live with it and try and pursue things that matter to me anyway. Perhaps in time with the right tools and right support, you can do this, too. When you feel like dealing with anxiety and "stuff", a good therapeutic approach to try is ACT (Acceptance Commitment Therapy). It has had good results with anxiety, often better than CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy), which is the gold standard for treatment. There are self-help workbooks based on ACT for anxiety that you can pick up, if you wanted to look further into it and start reading about it for yourself. It's worth checking out, when you're ready. Well done, though.
cheers
Mettaphorica

I don't know why, Mett, given that there are thousands of threads here you have decided to jump on here as a completely newbie (7 POSTS) and get on 8's case.

Let me please rewrite your post as somebody who does not have an issue would have written it.

QUOTE=Mettaphorica;810273]I'm probably not welcome here, but wanted to say, you are doing well, 8.

Are you a medical professional/someone important in 8's life? if not who are you to say he/she is doing well?


Now a woman half way across the world can sleep at night not thinking about you all the time.

Sleep Woman - 8 is certainly not the most desperate person on this board. And I very much doubt the most desperate one will want your particular form of sympathy.



It's also good to see you have some additional support and back up. it seemed at first you didn't have any and I was worried that you were really all alone (one can only glean so much from posts). You are probably right about the anxiety--you may be wired that way. Plenty of studies suggest that some people just are. I am, but I also had a bit of a problem childhood to cause it, and although meditation certainly helps, it doesn't take it away completely--I've learned to live with it and try and pursue things that matter to me anyway. Perhaps in time with the right tools and right support, you can do this, too. When you feel like dealing with anxiety and "stuff", a good therapeutic approach to try is ACT (Acceptance Commitment Therapy). It has had good results with anxiety, often better than CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy), which is the gold standard for treatment. There are self-help workbooks based on ACT for anxiety that you can pick up, if you wanted to look further into it and start reading about it for yourself. It's worth checking out, when you're ready. Well done, though.

Please, Mett, I was going to go through alll your issues, but it isn't worth even reading. Get of 8's case maybe and look at your own?

Just a suggestion.

Eight, you are doing well, keep on. Don't know and don't care why you are getting negative feedback - keep on with what you are doing, progress is being made. Just remember more of us are routing for you than are not.

[eight days a week]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

Sunday:

8.5mg diazepam
70mg Bac
13 UK units AL

Yesterday:

8mg diazepam
55mg Bac (just didn't seem to fit in all my doses through the day)
10 UK units AL - this is the least I've drunk when not abstinent or sick for the last two years :thumbs:

Now the trick is to keep it up!

I have no idea if this is due to:

1) The Baclofen
2) Slowly working hard, little-by-little, to drag myself out from the hole I was in
3) The Nal finally working as it was meant to
4) Breaking through my personal 'ceiling' (or in this case 'floor') of 12 UK units, after which I have always found it hard to control where to stop (even when not even feeling tipsy)
5) A combination of one, more, or all of the above

hoping4better - thank you!

Mettaphorica - You are welcome here! Everyone is free to post what they want, just as I am free to respond honestly about how what they say makes me feel. I am sad that my situation affected you so. Even though it didn't help at the time, I do know you posted out of great concern. Thank you for the recommendation of ACT - I'll look into it, and maybe others will too. Money is tight, but I have the option of free CBT as soon as I am functioning daily at a consistent level, so I can at least try. Tai Chi has almost totally eliminated my general, lifelong, background anxiety in the past, so I am dreaming of starting that again when I can attend evening classes.

Best wishes to all

eight (units in one day and I'll be skipping up the road like a loon!)

[craving]

eight days' intro and Bac and Nal (Sinclair Method) progress

eight days a week;810925 wrote:
8mg diazepam
55mg Bac (just didn't seem to fit in all my doses through the day)
10 UK units AL - this is the least I've drunk when not abstinent or sick for the last two years :thumbs:

I have no idea if this is due to:
1) The Baclofen

It is the Baclofen. This drug is a miracle.
Try to keep up the dose on Bac - the reduction you have done yesterday might slap back today or the next day. I have noticed lately an additional layer of effect on Baclofen.

There seems to be an immediate effect on larger dose - which initially stopped my craving, but then there is also a second layer of action that is showing delayed effect - a sort of add-up effect it seems.

I increased the dose, and I felt fine, then 24-36 hours later I was feeling pretty "drunk" on Baclofen (without drinking anything).

This also confirms the other day when I reduced from 250mg to 150mg - all was fine - the next day 24 hours later the craving set in!

It is highly important to keep the dose on Baclofen constant. Threat it like Diazepam :H