Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

[beatle]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

eight days a week;798353 wrote: Natural is the way to go in my book wherever possible! I can't seem to find melatonin for sale over here in the UK, but I take 5-HTP to keep depression away, and it worked almost instantly and quite dramatically for that. On the other hand, I've heard of a friend or two that noticed no difference taking it. I guess we're all different, and need to experiment to find out what works for us.

I've heard it can aid sleep, but perhaps it's just really subtle on that front. It doesn't make me sleepy, but may well help on a less obvious level.

Let us know please how you get on!

I agree, natural is always the the best -- not just in theory, but also in practice. What I mean is, drugs almost always have a down side (which usually comes to screw up everything) -- either side effects, built-up tolerance and/or addiction, or interactions with other drugs.

[beatle]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

double posted -- sorry!

[Cinders]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

I believe Melatonin is not approved for OTC use in the UK. Not absolutely sure but do recall others talking about that.

5HTP, I have never tried, but I do get sleepy and sleep very well if I take L-Tryptophan. Those two are related. I believe 5HTP is the result of processing L-Tryptophan.

One before bed works very well.

But, I do recommend Trazodone as a medical approach. I found it worked well, I didn't get the horribly groggy feelings I couldn't overcome during the day, I did wake up groggy but not too bad. Baclofen does make me groggy, too, though and it takes a couple of good cups of coffee to shake that off.

Sleep is important and I think the lack of sleep that most of us go through after we sober up is the cause of many early stage relapses. We want sleep!!

Do whatever it takes to start getting a good night's sleep so that you do not relapse because of it.

btw, my daughter went sober without anything except an occasional Melatonin. She said that the first week was hell, Melatonin or no Melatonin, but after that, the Melatonin helped and then within a month, she was sleeping without anything. Just as a warning about her, though, even as a small child she slept well. She used to come to me and tell me it was time to tuck her in. :H:H

Good luck to all who are having issues with sleep. Find whatever works, use the safest approach that does, and go with it. Sleep IS important. AA knows what they are saying when they tell us to observe HALT (Hungry Angry Lonely Tired.)

Cindi

[Greg]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

One thing I won't be using too close to bedtime from now on is baclofen! It works to help cravings during the afternoon and early evening but if I take it any later than that I'm likely to sleep 2-3 hours at most. It's not just a stimulant effect either...it keeps me up running to the bathroom!! I don't experience any daytime over-sedation from it, which is one good thing.

I don't think melatonin is OTC-approved here in Australia either. It's supposed to work for some/most people who take it. 5-HTP is not approved here either, and L-tryptophan was strictly regulated to be by prescription only (and at a ridiculously small allowable dose from memory). I tried L-tryptophan many years ago before it was regulated, and it did work quite well from memory. Cinders, if you don't mind me asking, what dose of this amino acid is available per tablet where you live?

I have to check the status of trazodone here aswell, as I'm not sure it's prescribed by doctors anymore. I'm sure it was only ever approved as an antidepressant, but could easily be prescribed off-label as a sedative. My experience of taking other anti-depressants as sleeping pills is that they seem to all rely on an anti-histamine property, just like the sedating anti-histamines doxylamine, diphenhydramine, promethazine, and a few others. I have had a couple of good nights' sleep with antihistamine drugs but tolerance to the sedative effects seems to happen very rapidly. I'm not saying trazodone has this problem however.

I agree that natural is better than drugs whenever possible and available. Cinders your daughter courageously chose to get sober without medical assistance and it's great she was able to succeed. I would have done this except for being warned that my level of drinking was such that non-medicated withdrawal could be medically dangerous. However it didn't get me hooked on the Valium used for the first 4-5 days and I'm still happy to be sober.

[tiptronic_ct]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

Sleep... an elusive concept these days.

I haven't slept well ever since I went AF, not to mention the insomnia caused by bac as I titrated up.

I've tried all the "natural" remedies - they're utterly useless, even at 4x the recommended dose.

Luckily, my psychiatrist won't prescribe a sleeping tablet, and I have asked him to keep refusing. I don't trust myself with them.

A good night's sleep would be way better than sex, though :H

Just to be able to remain switched off for an uninterrupted 6 hours would be magic. I haven't slept solidly for more than 2 hours at a stretch in more than 5 months. I'm sure there must have been times when I did, but it doesn't feel that way. I seem to be functioning OK work-wise, but when will this end???

[beatle]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

I once posted an extensive listing of natural sleep aids on the Holistic Healing forum, accompanied by explanations and evaluations (based on both my and other's experiences).

I cannot find this thread (or post) by search. I have never had luck with search on this site.

Can anyone find this? Key words are: sleep, beatle, melatonin, 5-HTP, tryptophan, valerian and lithium orotate (the best natural sleeping aid for me -- not to be confused with lithium!)

As for availability of these natural products, valerian is the only one sold OTC in Skandinavia. Even the antihistamines are restricted.

I know melatonin, 5-HTP, tryptophan, and lithium orotate are all sold OTC in the U.S. -- which is where I get all my stuff from ... They are cheap (especially melatonin), and you can just order them from an online provider.

Meanwhile, if someone can find that thread (or maybe it's just a post), I think it would be helpful for many here.

[Greg]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

I would add kava kava and possibly a Brazilian herb "erythrina mulungu" to the list. Kava has almost been banned in Australia now but the Mulungu is still available. I haven't tried it yet but am ordering some as a trial.

Beatle I couldn't find your post either, since you have posted quite a bit on natural supplements. I'll search again tomorrow. I order my natural supplements online aswell.

[Cinders]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

Regarding Kava Kava, I know that if the supplier is not ethical and uses stems and leaves in the product, cases of liver toxicity have shown up.

Google on it and you will find it.

So, use care with all supplements, as well as prescription meds. They can affect our bodies, too. Natural does not always mean safe.

Love,
Cindi

ps Beatle, the rehab I went to does not allow the use of antihistamines (Benadryl here, other names elsewhere) as a sleep aid because they have found that people can abuse those, too.

[tiptronic_ct]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

Cinders;799049 wrote:
ps Beatle, the rehab I went to does not allow the use of antihistamines (Benadryl here, other names elsewhere) as a sleep aid because they have found that people can abuse those, too.

Seems the only thing I'm good at abusing (or used to be good at) is alcohol.

I've even tried antihistamines (Phenergan). It worked for about 2 weeks to give more or less 5 hours sleep, then did nothing much...

Next step is meditation, I guess. That is so not me

[Cinders]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

Tip,

You truly might want to try the Trazodone. I am not sure what they call it in SA.

It was given to me in rehab and it works great. A good sound sleep.

I don't have to take it anymore, the Bac/Neurontin (Gabapentin)/Verapamil mix I am on makes me so sleepy, I can't stay awake past 9:00 at night and I sleep a good 6 hours.

What is horrible is I have to wake up and take them again.

I haven't a choice, though.

But, back to you!!

The Trazodone works well for almost everyone. Several here have taken it.

It is prescription only.

Love,
Cindi

[beatle]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

Greg;798728 wrote: One thing I won't be using too close to bedtime from now on is baclofen! It works to help cravings during the afternoon and early evening but if I take it any later than that I'm likely to sleep 2-3 hours at most. It's not just a stimulant effect either...it keeps me up running to the bathroom!! I don't experience any daytime over-sedation from it, which is one good thing.

Last night I took my last bac dose 3 hours before I went to sleep (I used to take it right before sleeping, because at low doses it helped me sleep tremendously). Last night I slept much better and much longer than I have for the past couple months (and with far fewer trips to the loo:waving. I can't believe it could make such a difference.

[Cinders]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

Geez, I've been posting for a while how it is much better to take the Baclofen 3 - 4 hours before sleeping.

Nobody listens to me. :upset:

It does make a tremendous difference.

Love,
Cindi

[Greg]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

Cinders;799231 wrote: Geez, I've been posting for a while how it is much better to take the Baclofen 3 - 4 hours before sleeping.

Nobody listens to me. :upset:

It does make a tremendous difference.

Love,
Cindi

Don't worry, I have definitely listened to you (and others) on this point and never take baclofen close to bed time anymore!

I'm still looking into trazodone to see its status here in Australia...have to talk to my doctor by phone later today so will ask him about it.

Yes kava made from any part of the plant that isn't the root has been linked to liver toxicity. There has also been a suggestion that kava extracts using acetone as the extraction solvent are linked to this, but maybe that's because they were using stems, etc. to extract from. I wouldn't use any form of kava except pure root powder, as used by traditional Pacific Island cultures. The strict ban in Aus has been due to liver toxicity fears and also the abuse of kava in some indiginous (Aboriginal) communities. Unfortunately this ban has stopped Tongan and other Islander people from conducting traditional kava drinking rituals that were helping them socialise, and now their youth are getting stuck into alcohol as a substitute for the kava. This is leading to alcohol-fuelled violence that wasn't as much of a problem before the ban. Kava is only allowed in tiny amounts in capsules now, and to import large amounts you need to prove it is for medical or scientific use. I've applied to the government for this use.

I have used antihistamines for sleep in the past and was taking large doses of Phenergan while AF at one stage. I experienced the rapid tolerance to antihistamine sedation that many talk about. I haven't abused antihistamines because I've never actually felt a buzz of any sort from them, just dopiness. I guess some people find a way of abusing almost anything...I think I've read that hallucinations can occur with high doses so maybe that's the abuse potential.

[beatle]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

Cinders;799231 wrote: Geez, I've been posting for a while how it is much better to take the Baclofen 3 - 4 hours before sleeping.

Nobody listens to me. :upset:

It does make a tremendous difference.

Love,
Cindi

The reason I never took notice is that until recently, bac has made me sleep well, so I probably glossed over those posts. :sorry:

My sleep has only been disturbed in the past few weeks, and even then I did not make the connection with bac, as I was changing time zones rapidly, and so I put it down to jetlag.

So I only took notice when I saw these posts in recent days. Honestly. :exclamation:

Also, as we all know, memory impairment is a side effect of bac

[Greg]

Baclofen and sleep...any answers??

Has anyone here heard of a medication called cyclobenzaprine (brand names Flexeril, Cycoflex) ?? It is listed as a skeletal muscle relaxant and sedative...openly stated as being a CNS depressant that is also prescribed as a sleep aid. The only trouble is that it sounds very much like baclofen (except its recognised use as a sleep-aid) so the two could interact seriously. It could also be potentially addictive like many sleep medications. I'm just wondering if anyone has heard anything much about the medication.

P.S. Edit : Don't worry about the above medication, as it's apparently just an antidepressant type drug that exerts sedative effects via antihistamine actions. Other antidepressants that have antihistamine properties are prescribed as sleep aids, and most/all only work for a couple of days in a row because of the very rapid tolerance (in most people) to antihistamine sedation. Trazodone may be somewhat different however.