Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

[Virgil]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

beatle;805159 wrote: I guess the short answer (which I never manage to give) is: YES

beatle,

Now, that's what I want to hear!

I really am hoping that baclofen deals with both the alcohol dependency and its underlying cause (in my case) - anxiety. My anxiety of recent has been debilitating and resulted in a lot of depression. Although I'm currently seeing a therapist on a weekly basis, it's painfully slow progress. Baclofen could speed things up. Fingers crossed!

V.

[ThirdMan]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

Just thought I'd add that, as Greg wrote, kimikk and carleena might very well have been experiencing alcohol withdrawl symptoms. For me personally, in spite of severe drinking but perhaps because I was relatively young, I had anxiety attacks but never anything of the severity of DTs which seem less likely unless you have been drinking hardcore for quite a while. Either way, benzos will be helpful for the first few days and if the attacks don't subside after several days of sobriety and weening off the benzos then I'd say you have anxiety attacks which contrary to their name can feel 100% physical. And they can come when you don't feel particularly "stressed." Weird, I know. And the reason it kicked my drinking into high gear is that, much like a benzo, alcohol will also stop them in their tracks but of course at the same time perpetuate them when you are sober.

[beatle]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

Exactly

ThirdMan;805934 wrote: Just thought I'd add that, as Greg wrote, kimikk and carleena might very well have been experiencing alcohol withdrawl symptoms. For me personally, in spite of severe drinking but perhaps because I was relatively young, I had anxiety attacks but never anything of the severity of DTs which seem less likely unless you have been drinking hardcore for quite a while. Either way, benzos will be helpful for the first few days and if the attacks don't subside after several days of sobriety and weening off the benzos then I'd say you have anxiety attacks which contrary to their name can feel 100% physical. And they can come when you don't feel particularly "stressed." Weird, I know. And the reason it kicked my drinking into high gear is that, much like a benzo, alcohol will also stop them in their tracks but of course at the same time perpetuate them when you are sober.

I would have said this, but ThirdMan did it better.

Anxiety attacks for me are purely physical and, unfortunately alcohol is the ONLY thing that can stop the physical symptoms immediately. Benzos take a little time to get into the system, so are pretty useless unless you take them as a precaution.. and, as Third says, anxiety attacks can happen at any time, and usually there is no attributable cause, so you can't really prevent them unless you are on the benzos (or alcohol, in my case) all the time.

[eight days a week]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

beatle;805965 wrote: I would have said this, but ThirdMan did it better.

Anxiety attacks for me are purely physical and, unfortunately alcohol is the ONLY thing that can stop the physical symptoms immediately. Benzos take a little time to get into the system, so are pretty useless unless you take them as a precaution.. and, as Third says, anxiety attacks can happen at any time, and usually there is no attributable cause, so you can't really prevent them unless you are on the benzos (or alcohol, in my case) all the time.

That's why I turned to drink in late December '08. A traumatic series of events which occurred daily for months sent me to the doctor's in search of help. 'Oh no' they said 'we can't give you more than 5x2mg tablets of diazepam in a month to help you cope, because it's addictive' (that seems to be the policy at my local general doctors' practice). What happened? I had nowhere else to turn but booze, which I'd always consumed too much of anyway. Almost a year and a half later, I've been drinking ridiculous quantities, have been up to and over what they refused to prescribe me in month for anxiety attacks daily for six months now, have a high physical dependence on alcohol as well as benzos, and have been unable to work or lead a normal life ever since.

Please, don't get me started on the National 'Health' Service here in the UK!!

[Greg]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

Obviously this is a very serious problem for some people, and one that is not simply going to go away by itself if a person is denied benzos. Normally I would advise people to avoid benzos but if they are going to drink instead to deal with panic or other problems, or drink with benzos to boost the effect, then a more open attitude towards benzos could be needed. Of course this then comes down to finding a doctor who has an open-minded attitude.

I'm wondering if a week-long detoxification from alcohol could at least clear it out of the system, after which the need for continued use of benzos and the ongoing use of something else like baclofen or naltrexone could be worked out? If doctors were familiar with TSM and baclofen treatment this would be made a hell of a lot easier. As already mentioned the benzos don't work as quickly as alcohol so maybe they do need to be taken regularly by some people with panic disorder and other serious anxiety problems. Things like SSRI antidepressants certainly don't have an immediate effect either.

Personally I have issues with anxiety and depression which seem to be being helped somewhat by baclofen, but by no means completely solved by it. Having an existing problem with benzos makes me wary of going back up to high doses of them so I am planning on asking my doctor for a trial of pregabalin (Lyrica) or a similar anticonvulsant that has been said to help with anxiety. I am not drinking currently but if I don't find answers to my own emotional problems then I fear that a return to alcohol won't be too far away.

[kimikk]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

It is just so hard for me to believe that I had a panic/anxiety attack. I am forty years old and never experienced anything like that before. And if I have ever felt physically unstable I was able to wait it out or at least it would go away or something. I have even stopped drinking in the past when I was younger and did so without any physical withdrawals. Anyway, I am still making every effort to be a/f although I can't say that I have been abstinent. 2 out of the 7 days this week I have had a few beers. My intentions are to not drink but situations are hard for me at times and I give in. So is Baclofen somewhat similar to Lorazepam? Does anyone know and does anyone have any info or advice to give?

[beatle]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

kimikk, it does not sound to me either like it was an anxiety attack, especially if you have never had one before.

(yeh yeh, I have to say this: I am not a doctor and this is not meant to be medical advice): I am fairly certain that what you experienced was a result of ceasing alcohol. It doesn't matter if you have or haven't detoxed before. Everybody's different, and most importantly, every situation is different. I had a seizure once while detoxing, although I had never had a problem with that before. But prior to the seizure, I also hadn't slept well, hadn't ate well and hadn't consumed enough liquids.

If you are trying to be AF and you are managing to be 2 days a week, you can become completely AF by decreasing slowly your AL intake. The most important thing is that while you are doing this, you eat well, take supplements, drink lots of liquids (the non-alcoholic type, of course), and get good sleep.

To answer your question: baclofen is not similar to lorazepam. But they may serve similar purposes in terms of detoxing. I mean, both will help you if you want to, or need to, stop drinking cold turkey.

Lorazepam is a benzodiazepine (known as benzo)-- it is strong and effective for short periods of time, particularly for anxiety and detoxing. It is also highly addictive and has many side effects.

Baclofen has less of a proven track record in detoxing, but studies seem to indicate it might be equally effective for detoxing as benzos. Baclofen is not addictive and most probably has better results taken long-term (unlike benzos).

Most people here are using baclofen to help them attain, or more usually sustain, sobriety. Baclofen appears to mitigate the cravings that often lead to relapses in drinking.

For those of us with major anxiety issues, baclofen also appears to be helpful.

[eight days a week]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

beatle;806279 wrote:

...

To answer your question: baclofen is not similar to lorazepam. But they may serve similar purposes in terms of detoxing. I mean, both will help you if you want to, or need to, stop drinking cold turkey.

...

Baclofen has less of a proven track record in detoxing, but studies seem to indicate it might be equally effective for detoxing as benzos. Baclofen is not addictive and most probably has better results taken long-term (unlike benzos).

1) I'd like to know where you have read evidence that Baclofen has any 'similar purpose' to benzos in alcohol detox (actually I'd like to see much more than that, I want to see clinical reports, as you appear to be handing out medical advice here).

2) Likewise - beatle please tell us where these studies are, or quote them.

3) Less importantly, I'd be personally interested to hear of how lorazepam is used in detox. Here in the UK they use librium, (though I have heard of diazepam used, usually in home detox in areas that support that).

[beatle]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

eight days a week;806295 wrote: 1) I'd like to know where you have read evidence that Baclofen has any 'similar purpose' to benzos in alcohol detox (actually I'd like to see much more than that, I want to see clinical reports, as you appear to be handing out medical advice here).

2) Likewise - beatle please tell us where these studies are, or quote them.

3) Less importantly, I'd be personally interested to hear of how lorazepam is used in detox. Here in the UK they use librium, (though I have heard of diazepam used, usually in home detox in areas that support that).

I believe I made it completely clear in my post that I am not a doctor and am not giving medical advice.

If you google it, you will find studies about both benzos (including lorazepam) and baclofen being used in detox. There are also studies comparing benzos to baclofen. Very interesting stuff. But not mainstream, of course.

I can assemble the information later myself -- but first I must get the lunches packed and the kids to school.

[cowgal]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

hi

For me, the bac helped not only w/ anxiety, but al indifference, then also, I have a tendency to worry and obsess, (guess it could be considered OCD??) but many other things as well, that is why I am so hoping I can go back on it, at a very low dose and titrate slowly now that I am once again AF,and going to stay that way for a while..........

hope this helps...............:l

best of luck to u!!

MA:l:h

[eight days a week]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

beatle;806334 wrote: I believe I made it completely clear in my post that I am not a doctor and am not giving medical advice.

If you google it, you will find studies about both benzos (including lorazepam) and baclofen being used in detox. There are also studies comparing benzos to baclofen. Very interesting stuff. But not mainstream, of course.

I can assemble the information later myself -- but first I must get the lunches packed and the kids to school.

Your caveat was ambiguous imho beatle, as it was written in one paragraph, whereas the parts of your post I quoted read to me like fact. I look forward to reading the studies you mention, though I'm a bit concerned that you say they're not 'not mainstream, of course'. Are there any respected studies?

[gyco]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

hi virgil,all agree to diagree,ive tried all ways,lying cheating an d the rest,drugs,i dont have a problem stopping,staying stopped and wanting to is theanswer,theres not a doctor out there that would give you or i a drug if they new the truth,my opinion, i do wish well in your journey gyco

[gyco]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

forgot to add think about it took me 10 years its all in the 1st drink thnxagain

[beatle]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

Eight, I'm sorry you feel that way and I apologize if my comments have bothered you or been misconstrued. I certainly never meant to offer medical advice, and I believed I made that clear, just as I also believed that we all understood that what we say here is just sharing of information and experiences. I will be sure to make that more clear in future.

What I wrote was based on extensive research and personal experience, no more, no less. If my manner of communication offended you, I am sincerely sorry.

I cannot repeat years of research, nor can I share years of personal experience. All I can offer, and that in goodwill, is what I have learned and experienced through the years. I can, and suppose I must, re-do my research so as to provide you, and others who might require it, some of the material on which I based my comments.

This will, of course, take a good bit of time, so meanwhile, here is a simple article, which cites its sources at the end -- if you want to look up the studies at the end, it may provide a starting point.

Baclofen in outpatient treatment of alcohol withdrawal syndrome | Journal of Family Practice | Find Articles at BNET

[eight days a week]

Another Question About Anxiety, Alcohol Baclofen

beatle;806609 wrote: Eight, I'm sorry you feel that way and I apologize if my comments have bothered you or been misconstrued. I certainly never meant to offer medical advice, and I believed I made that clear, just as I also believed that we all understood that what we say here is just sharing of information and experiences. I will be sure to make that more clear in future.

What I wrote was based on extensive research and personal experience, no more, no less. If my manner of communication offended you, I am sincerely sorry.

I cannot repeat years of research, nor can I share years of personal experience. All I can offer, and that in goodwill, is what I have learned and experienced through the years. I can, and suppose I must, re-do my research so as to provide you, and others who might require it, some of the material on which I based my comments.

This will, of course, take a good bit of time, so meanwhile, here is a simple article, which cites its sources at the end -- if you want to look up the studies at the end, it may provide a starting point.

Baclofen in outpatient treatment of alcohol withdrawal syndrome | Journal of Family Practice | Find Articles at BNET

Absolutely no offense whatsoever taken here, beatle! I was just concerned at the way your post read. It seemed to offer, in parts, your own opinion as medical fact, and as we all know (and you, very clearly, understand that as well as any here) that can be dangerous.

I guess it may be a timely reminder to us all (and certainly to myself) that people who come here might not understand that a lot of what is shared here is personal experience and research. I think it's possibly harmful to take that as a given (again, a reminder to myself as much as anyone else to make that very clear).

I thank you very much for the link, that is surely worth some more investigating I've never heard of Baclofen used in that way before (it's hard enough - nigh on impossible in fact - to find a UK doctor even prepared to prescribe Baclofen for alcohol misuse! And I've never ever heard of Lorazepam used for chemical detox, I'd be very interested to hear more about that.)

I hope you will understand, but we have gone way off-topic here. I'd like Virgil's thread to get back on track, if possible. So, can we start a new thread to continue this discussion?

All the best,

eight