GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

[bernard]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

jeffeff, Dude!, welcome!
I loved your line, "Picture it: Millions of drunks (drunks!), shaking, reeking, ranting, showing up at doctor's offices across the country expecting a handout of pills once word hits the street of the 'cure.'"

I can picture that! It conjures up a remake of Night of the Living Dead. Maybe then physicians--and the worst of all, psychiatrists--will take notice and start oiling some hinges to their rusted-shut minds.

[Brave Hearted]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

Ha Ha great line Bernard, "oil the hinges to their ruste-shut minds" you have hit the nailon the head there !! I went to my doctor and all she suggested was I enroll in AA , ummm not for me (I respect it has worked for many but for me the whole doctirne and figures dont stack up !) I have contemplated going back and asking her to prescribe Bac , but I really dont have the energy to run that particular gauntlet, its much easier to order online and do it in private . And I wonder is society as a whole ready for a "cure" for alcohlism ??? does not quite fit the mind set that many have of 'drunks' being a bunch of low class citizen , who lack self controll and will power, who dont deserve any form of sympathy or support ??????? Anybody who is addicted to drugs, gambling, cigarettes or food gets more help than anybody with an al problem !!! because all the others cant help it , we can !

[phuongtim39]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

Brave Hearted;818912 wrote: Hi Nat

Thank you for writing this well presented and informative atrical, it makes very interesting reading. I myself have been on baclofen since last Aug and its changed my life after 30 years of distructive drinking, just hope the prodictions of taking it out of circulation do not prove right ! Although I buy mine online surely they could not ban it world wide ? I am sincerely hoping not ?.

I feel its just a shame that Martin did not have such good results as some on here have had, have you considerd doing another artical and including some of us in it ???, we come from all over the globe and have differant drinking historys and methods of getting the baclofen. It has helped lots of us with varying types of al problems, you dont have to be getting out of bed and reaching for a bottle everyday for al to wreck your life. Just a thought and my thanks and best wishes to you !

BH x

I accept with information:There is in fact a way for drug companies to make money from baclofen, despite its being out of patent, and that is to develop a new, long-acting delivery system. The existing formulation of baclofen is metabolized in a matter of hours, as you know, meaning that people who take high-dose baclofen have to swallow bunches of pills at regular intervals throughout the day.

[natepenn]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

Hi everyone--Sorry not to be back here sooner. I did want to respond to a few questions and comments people have made in this thread, and to say that I greatly appreciate the thoughtfulness of everyone who's posted.

The commenter who observed that Alkermes is producing its own baclofen compound for the market is right, and the initial drafts of this story featured a lengthy scene at Alkermes headquarters in Boston in which I spoke with Dr. Pops and several other officials there about this drug. In particular I wondered why the company had chosen to test naltrexone and baclofen together rather than separately. (If they've now decided to test them separately, that's news to me, but it's been a while since I've been in contact with Alkermes.) The answer was simply that they believed naltrexone to be more effective than baclofen in combatting the urge to drink; baclofen, they thought, could be useful mainly in alleviating the symptoms of withdrawal. Incidentally, I also spoke with them about Vivitrol, their expensive injectable naltrexone compound, behind which they'd mobilized a major marketing campaign. Has any of you tried Vivitrol? I'd be very curious to know.

As you might expect, the Alkermes people were skeptical, if not outright dismissive, of the claims Dr. Ameisen makes for baclofen. They're scientists who put their faith in placebo-controlled, double-blind trials, and they hear about untested miracle drugs all the time. It may also be true that they weren't testing baclofen by itself because it's out of patent and doesn't offer them the kind of return on investment that a new proprietary drug--like their naltrexone/baclofen formulation--does. For the record, when I asked them if this was the case, they responded that it wasn't.

I should add that their (relative) open-mindedness about baclofen distinguishes them from Big Pharma. Alkermes is a small biotech, it's no Pfizer, and if there's an enemy in the industry, an embodiment of corporate complacency or indifference, Alkermes is not it.

In any event, what I wanted to say in reply to the commenter is that the GQ story had to be cut for space and that as a result the entire scene at Alkermes headquarters was lost. All that survives of it is Dr. Pops' comment, which now lacks the context I originally provided. In earlier drafts, you were meant to wonder precisely what the commenter wondered--i.e., to what degree is Dr. Pops' comment motivated or colored by his own vested interests?

To answer another question people raised: In ending the piece as I did, I was trying to show that alcoholism, in its extraordinary complexity, defies a single-bullet cure. Baclofen effectively treats a higher proportion of people than any other medication we've ever had, upwards of 50%, but the it's not going to cure everybody, and people who try it must maintain realistic expectations about it. Certainly Martin hasn't been helped by his sense that he's alone, or practically alone, in his frustrating half-response to the drug.

Also: At one time during the reporting of this story I suspected that a great conspiracy against baclofen was afoot, Big Pharma training its sights on the intruder who would seek to overturn its hegemony. I know some people here share this suspicion, at least in some degree. A lot of reporting persuaded me that this isn't the case, or at least not so far. Frankly, I think nobody in the medical establishment took baclofen seriously enough to deem it worthy of being suppressed. That may change in the future. We'll see.

Finally, another excised section of the piece dealt with the Balkanized state of the addiction field. People in this world agree on hardly anything--is inpatient rehab effective? does AA really help you stop drinking? are the existing medications actually useful enough to warrant our prescribing them? is sobriety the optimal goal? is alcoholism even a disease?--and thus there's been no concerted effort to champion baclofen, a medication that depends on word of mouth because it doesn't have an army of drug reps promoting it. I think this may be part of the reason so many physicians haven't heard of, and therefore won't prescribe, baclofen. I asked an NYC addiction psychiatrist whether he'd been inundated with appointment requests after he'd begun prescribing baclofen; he said no, and that he didn't expect he would be until the New York Times Lifestyles section wrote about baclofen. I hope the GQ piece helps somebody, somewhere, by getting the word out; that's why Martin agreed to take part, and that's why I wrote it.

[corkit]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

Natepenn, you have no idea how you helped with the GQ article. My husband and I are going to see Dr. Levin that was in your article tomorrow. He totally admires Dr. Ameisen and fully believes in BAC. I will find out as much as I can on what is being done to promote BAC.

[craving]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

corkit;827792 wrote: Natepenn, you have no idea how you helped with the GQ article. My husband and I are going to see Dr. Levin that was in your article tomorrow. He totally admires Dr. Ameisen and fully believes in BAC. I will find out as much as I can on what is being done to promote BAC.

FINALLY a psychiatrist that uses his brain.

Just had a meeting with my psychiatrist. He got me to lower Baclofen to 75mg - as that is the max for him - everything else is insane.
Then he wanted to prescribe me Topamax for something else, and told me for cocain addiction he would go up to 250mg/day ....

In other words : for Baclofen, lets look what the holly book says - ok says 75mg max - thats it. But for Topamax, it says max 100mg - lets make it 250mg.

I really do not get those guys!!!!!!! Have not made a new appointment. For Baclofen I never needed the Psychiatrist. I never needed an idiot telling me I can not go up higher, when I was at 300mg and it was never life threatening.
And he is not even interested into it for helping others of his clients. I am just really pissed.

Greetings to this great psychiatrist you found. Send him my regards, and I admire HIM !! :H

[jeffeff]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

Brave Hearted;827113 wrote: I went to my doctor and all she suggested was I enroll in AA , ummm not for me (I respect it has worked for many but for me the whole doctirne and figures dont stack up !) I have contemplated going back and asking her to prescribe Bac , but I really dont have the energy to run that particular gauntlet, its much easier to order online and do it in private . And I wonder is society as a whole ready for a "cure" for alcohlism ??? does not quite fit the mind set that many have of 'drunks' being a bunch of low class citizen , who lack self controll and will power, who dont deserve any form of sympathy or support ??????? Anybody who is addicted to drugs, gambling, cigarettes or food gets more help than anybody with an al problem !!! because all the others cant help it , we can !

I got kicked out of doctor's offices TWICE when I used to go to them seeking "treatment for my alcoholism".

The first time was by my general practitioner, whom I'd been seeing for maybe three years. He was well acquainted with my drinking and all of the problems associated with it. I forget what exactly I was seeing him about that morning, but he was about to change my prescription from whatever it had been to valium(!), when it was as if he suddenly remembered something. He got out his stethoscope, had me do the ?breathe deeply? thing, and that?s when he smelled the couple of beers I?d had for breakfast that morning. He freaked out, stormed out of the office, and that?s the last I saw of him.

The second time was by a psychiatrist whom I had only seen once before, when he?d given me the names of four medications he could put me on, and I think I was supposed to research them or something, and on my next visit tell him which one I was interested in.

Six weeks later (that was as soon as they could schedule me), I returned for my follow-up, with the notes I?d written down about the various meds in hand. I didn?t get very far before the good doctor smelled the couple of beers I?d had for breakfast and cut me off in mid-sentence. He had that Kennedy-esque way of interjecting ?er?ah?? everywhere. ?Don?t er?ah?come in here er?ah?drunk.?

I remember seeing a half-dozen or so other therapist-people who were not of the prescription-empowered type, and who did not literally throw me out, but nevertheless regarded me, the drunk, as if I were an IRS auditor or a Jehovah?s Witness or somebody. I remember one guy looked at me as if I?d just rear-ended him traffic while he was running late for a meeting. He didn?t throw me out of his office, but he did say that he couldn?t do anything for me until I stopped drinking, and that I should go to an AA meeting and get a sponsor. I remember another lady looking at me with the detached horror of a juror listening to testimony at a child molester?s trial. In her defense, though, I don?t remember her specifically telling me to go to AA.

All of the above, however, were happy to collect my $60 co-payment.

[craving]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

jeffeff;827905 wrote: I got kicked out of doctor's offices TWICE when I used to go to them seeking "treatment for my alcoholism".

The first time was by my general practitioner, whom I'd been seeing for maybe three years. He was well acquainted with my drinking and all of the problems associated with it. I forget what exactly I was seeing him about that morning, but he was about to change my prescription from whatever it had been to valium(!), when it was as if he suddenly remembered something. He got out his stethoscope, had me do the ?breathe deeply? thing, and that?s when he smelled the couple of beers I?d had for breakfast that morning. He freaked out, stormed out of the office, and that?s the last I saw of him.

The second time was by a psychiatrist whom I had only seen once before, when he?d given me the names of four medications he could put me on, and I think I was supposed to research them or something, and on my next visit tell him which one I was interested in.

Six weeks later (that was as soon as they could schedule me), I returned for my follow-up, with the notes I?d written down about the various meds in hand. I didn?t get very far before the good doctor smelled the couple of beers I?d had for breakfast and cut me off in mid-sentence. He had that Kennedy-esque way of interjecting ?er?ah?? everywhere. ?Don?t er?ah?come in here er?ah?drunk.?

I remember seeing a half-dozen or so other therapist-people who were not of the prescription-empowered type, and who did not literally throw me out, but nevertheless regarded me, the drunk, as if I were an IRS auditor or a Jehovah?s Witness or somebody. I remember one guy looked at me as if I?d just rear-ended him traffic while he was running late for a meeting. He didn?t throw me out of his office, but he did say that he couldn?t do anything for me until I stopped drinking, and that I should go to an AA meeting and get a sponsor. I remember another lady looking at me with the detached horror of a juror listening to testimony at a child molester?s trial. In her defense, though, I don?t remember her specifically telling me to go to AA.

All of the above, however, were happy to collect my $60 co-payment.

at least they accepted your money as a proof of their good will :H

seriously. I am not surprised. I only went to my doctor AFTER I have solved my alcohol problem on my own with Baclofen, and still I was screwed over. :upset:

[ATLThrash]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

Were any of you scared with the on line BAC in terms of increasing dose etc or the ramifications of ordering it? I am totally paranoid about the police showing up at my house if I ordered or said anyting on line that was controversial--- in GA they are proposing a bill to track any prescriptions of controlled stuff-- which I understand the legit need for in many ways but it keeps the truly ill from getting stuff. And my psychiatrist who is a risk taker with many things would not prescribe BAC and said even if he eventually di dhe would never ever do it at the Amieson dose.

[corkit]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

Craving, I didn't find him (psychiatrist) on my own this is the doctor who worked with Dr. Ameisen to help Martin in the GQ article. I took a stab at calling him, got his answering machine and thought this guy will never call me back but in 2 days he called me made an appointment 3 days following and was the most KIND man I've talked to about AL. He is very close to Dr. Ameisen and when we see him I'll try to ask him as many questions as I can about progress with the medical community and BAC. If anyone has specific questions you would like me to ask just let me know.

[craving]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

ATLThrash;827937 wrote: Were any of you scared with the on line BAC in terms of increasing dose etc or the ramifications of ordering it? I am totally paranoid about the police showing up at my house if I ordered or said anyting on line that was controversial--- in GA they are proposing a bill to track any prescriptions of controlled stuff-- which I understand the legit need for in many ways but it keeps the truly ill from getting stuff. And my psychiatrist who is a risk taker with many things would not prescribe BAC and said even if he eventually di dhe would never ever do it at the Amieson dose.

DEA is for drugs only. Nobody will ever give a sh%$ about you getting a muscle relaxant, that doesn't make addicted, neither is on any lists of possible drug abuse. Baclofen is not abuseable, therefore no pol*ce on earth will care about it!

[azuldog]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

Not to worry

I bought mine online. Got held up in customs but that was during the big snow storm in NY.
No problem. Many people here have done the same. Eventually my MD did Rx me some Bac but only after I gave some abstracts from The Lancet. And only at the max 80mg level, and for 'muscle spasms'. So far I'm not worried that the DEA is going to come to my house.
They have other concerns and Bac is not on their Scheduled list.

go for it..................azuldog

[ATLThrash]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

I must go to the wrong docs

My docs are strict about all prescription meds including muscle relaxers-- I guess there was some guy who was a musician in Athens, GA that killed himself with an OD of them this year. I have taken flereril when my back was hurt once and I was warned about it and taking too much and I am pretty sure it is not just me they warn. It is a muscle relxer too. I guess maybe I am too hard wired with the med community-- I suspect that there are alot of issues with them and big pharma but I though I have ben sick alot I have generally not taken medication to get well-- I have pain meds for break through migraines and I do not take them much-- maybe I base my experience on seeing how doctors who give pain killers are-- I am sure that must be it. I just never have gone the on line route and I knwo that some of those who use it are thought to be abusers because otherwise they coudl get meds the regular way-- is it not prescription in other countries by any chance? It seems that way by some of the threads I have seen.

[azuldog]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

be at peace

No, with InHousePharmacy you do not need a script. If you are paranoid then you should not order online. For me the alternative is worse.

good luck, azul

[bernard]

GQ article about Dr. Ameisen and baclofen

My understanding is as follows:
1. Only DEA "scheduled" drugs are illegal to mail order from overseas. Baclofen is not a scheduled drug, and that's why it can be ordered by the likes of us even though you are supposed to have a prescription to do so. Scheduled drugs are ones that have been adjudged to have abuse potential, such as valium.
2. Docs are mainly worried about scheduled drugs, since it is these that can get them in trouble most easily.
3. For baclofen, the FDA-approved maximum dose of 80 mg/day. Anything above that is still legal, but is an "off-label" dose.
4. Using baclofen alone, it appears to be impossible to take a fatal dose since no one has succeeded in doing so even after taking grams of it on one shot. Further, all of such people made full recoveries.
5. That alcohol-dependent patients get routinely abused, shunned, and given bad information by physicians (in the US at least) is a fact beyond any rational debate.