Can baclofen keep you stopped

[Guest]

For ever lasting Sober....... thats the main thing....... Baclofen can lend a hand in that area ...... but staying stopped!!!! and not getting drunk in the future at the begining again is the hard part i do believe baclofen can short cut you to a stage where you have the opportunity to change youre THOUGHTS and obtain a LONG LASTING sobriety but that takes a lot of work!!!! the drug doesnt do that work for you..... any way you look at it..... there is no pill that completley wipes out addiction in my opinion.... its much more deeper than a brain temporary thing that needs a chemical tweak... just popping a pill that stabilizes the Gabba B receptor in my myopic view is not a cure as such...... Baclofen gave me the clarity to look at the choice of personal emotional destruction I have undertaken in my life .I wish to make a new choice and that is to be sober for the term of my natural life ....there in lies the cure of my addiction if i can get and cure that bit of my brain that made that first choice to undertake slow suicide by drink..... i do believe there is a way out of the nightmare that is addiction.I can now make the choice with hard work to undo that mistake..For me Baclofen allowed me to make a rational choice that the haze of alcohol prevented me doing....Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
All the best in this major fight we have to win if not we die.
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[Lo0p]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

The Sinclair Method is the cure for alcoholism. Baclofen is a band-aid, a damn good one, but it's just a band-aid.

^^ My opinion, but I also converse daily with people who have been cured. And I don't think I'm that far off myself. The baclofen makes it impossible to tell.

[brightlite]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

Great thoughts Reggie. Are you still taking Bac and are you currently AF?

Oh I decided to cut an paste your words for my toolbox.

[bernard]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

Lo0p;832577 wrote: The Sinclair Method is the cure for alcoholism. Baclofen is a band-aid, a damn good one, but it's just a band-aid.

My opinion, but I also converse daily with people who have been cured. And I don't think I'm that far off myself. The baclofen makes it impossible to tell.

Someone should write an essay on this debate about a "cure," and why it only occurs in the context of alcoholism. If it were diabetes, is a pancreas transplant a "cure" (never mind the lifelong anti-rejection drugs), but monitoring blood sugar and daily insulin injection only a "band-aid?" So everyone should hold out for the transplant, right? Traditional baclofen users, such as victims of spinal cord inury or cerebral palsy, typically take it for the rest of their lives. Do we make them feel bad for using a "band-aid?"

What we have are treatments in general, and drug therapies in particular. Any of the recognized drugs that produces success for the individual is far better than using alcohol, regardless of whether it's a lifelong therapy or only temporary.

Any individual drug doesn't work for every patient. In particular, I think which one works depends on which of the many effects of alcohol makes you want it. If it's alleviation of anxiety, baclofen is probably the best thing to try. If you like the dopamine high, maybe TSM is the way to go. Acamprosate for some is the mythical "artificial alcohol," with its inhibition glutamate and enhancement of GABA.

So why do we trifle with the definition words like "cure?" If the benefit outweighs the risk--a no-brainer if it works--does it really matter what you call it?

[Lo0p]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

bernard;832696 wrote: Someone should write an essay on this debate about a "cure," and why it only occurs in the context of alcoholism.
It doesn't. It's quite common when a new cure comes out for anything. Antibiotics were not considered a cure for ulcers until years after Barry Marshall showed that they were. And it was hotly debated.

bernard;832696 wrote: Do we make them feel bad for using a "band-aid?"

I take 175mgs of baclofen a day and I don't feel bad.

bernard;832696 wrote: So why do we trifle with the definition words like "cure?" If the benefit outweighs the risk--a no-brainer if it works--does it really matter what you call it?

I recently had what is called acute cholecystitis which is an infection of the gall bladder. They treated my symptom (extreme pain) with narcotics. At one point, when they put me on a patient controlled analgesia machine for 3 days prior to surgery, I had no pain and felt totally 100% disease and symptom free.

Then they put me under and gave me the only known cure for my disease. They surgically removed my gall bladder. Today I am pain free AND my disease is gone.

TSM is a cure in that it LITERALLY removes the disease of alcoholism from your brain. It removes the maladapted network of neurons that comprises your drinking behavior. This is an actual physical phenomenon, and it is permanent, almost like an alcoholic lobotomy. People that have been cured by TSM are NOT ALCOHOLICS anymore. The only reason they must take naltrexone before drinking still is because they are genetically predisposed to alcoholism. It is taken prophylactically at that point.

I make the distinction because I know that it is. You don't have to.

[bernard]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

Lo0p;832720 wrote: It's quite common when a new cure comes out for anything. Antibiotics were not considered a cure for ulcers until years after Barry Marshall showed that they were. And it was hotly debated.This is not an example at all because the debate was whether antibiotics were a useful treatment at all, not whether they were a cure. It should be easy to name a valid example if they are common.

Lo0p;832720 wrote: I take 175mgs of baclofen a day and I don't feel bad.My critique is about what you wrote--which is a reflection of a commonplace line of thinking--and how it makes others feel, not what you yourself feel.

Lo0p;832720 wrote: I recently had ... my gall bladder [removed]. Today I am pain free AND my disease is gone.

I'm sorry for your painful experience, and glad to hear about your full recovery.

Lo0p;832720 wrote: TSM is a cure in that it LITERALLY removes the disease of alcoholism from your brain. It removes the maladapted network of neurons that comprises your drinking behavior. This is an actual physical phenomenon, and it is permanent, almost like an alcoholic lobotomy. People that have been cured by TSM are NOT ALCOHOLICS anymore. The only reason they must take naltrexone before drinking still is because they are genetically predisposed to alcoholism. It is taken prophylactically at that point.

If it's a cure, you shouldn't need a prophylaxis for the rest of your life.

This thread is about whether a person having a hard time with abstinence should take baclofen. The consensus is yes, baclofen is likely relieve the unwanted urge to drink, thereby preventing a relapse. Thus, the treatment under your definition would be prophylactic.

My point is that debating whether balcofen is a "cure" is an exercise without reward, and could only confuse those looking for help.

[brightlite]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

Someone wise once said, "I have a drinking problem, when I don't drink there is no problem".

Of course we did forget abstinence as part of the "cure". Although some will disagree that you have to be abstinent to be cured.

I know there is a lot more to it than that and it is a disease. The neuropathways in the brain have been altered. Rehabilitation is needed. How to achieve that is a combination of factors and everyone is different. Nal and Bac certainly help to achieve or acquire a state of abstinence. The brain has been damaged, just like a liver can be damaged. Maybe someday they will have brain transplants....that would be a cure. (sorry bad joke)

Here is a question....do you think that someone that is taking Nal and moderating is "cured"? I would say the brain is not cured, but the individual's phsyche, self-esteem, self respect probably has benefitted. I guess that is debateable.


Allen Carr wrote that everyone who drinks are only at different stages of becoming an alcoholic, some are futher along the slippery slope than others. Not sure if i agree with that, but once an alcoholic I believe it is very hard to return to moderation. Although some have claimed to have done it.

I am not an AA'er but have heard that their motto is "Once an alcoholic....always an alcoholic" or maybe it was "once a drunk....always a drunk". I don't really like that saying because I think if you can rehabilitate the brain, you can be considered "cured". How long does it take to rehabilitate the brain???? That is the question! "Take these pills and in 1 year, you will be cured!!" Don't we wish it was as easy as a doctor saying that to us?

In my opinion, the only way to be "cured" is to completely reverse the damage done.

Nal may work effectively towards that, Bac definitely works on the Cravings. A combination therapy may be the best of all worlds and of course will power and a prolong period of abstinence is required for a real cure to happen. In my opinion, of course.

[Lo0p]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

bernard;832741 wrote: This is not an example at all because the debate was whether antibiotics were a useful treatment at all, not whether they were a cure. It should be easy to name a valid example if they are common.
Good News - A Cure For Ulcers | CDC Ulcer

Excerpts:
"Good News - A Cure For Ulcers!!"

"Ulcer Facts
Most ulcers are caused by an infection, not spicy food, acid or stress.
The most common ulcer symptom is burning pain in the stomach.
Your doctor can test you for H. pylori infection.
Antibiotics are the new cure for ulcers.
Eliminating H. pylori infections with antibiotics means that your ulcer can be cured for good."

This is a document published by the American CDC. In 1997, the CDC launched a campaign to educate and reinforce the fact that antibiotics are indeed the cure for up to 80% of ulcers. There was debate and passive resistance the whole 13 years leading up to that point.

bernard;832741 wrote: My critique is about what you wrote--which is a reflection of a commonplace line of thinking--and how it makes others feel, not what you yourself feel.
Baclofen saved my life. I was highly suicidal and would be dead right now if I had not found it. That being said I'd be misleading people if I misrepresented it. I wrote it because it's the truth and was meant to make people "think" not "feel".

bernard;832741 wrote: If it's a cure, you shouldn't need a prophylaxis for the rest of your life.

prophylactic ?adjective
1. defending or protecting from disease or infection, as a drug.
2. preventive or protective.

If you withdraw the naltrexone at the end of treatment, the disease is still gone. If you try really hard you can catch it again, but that's just it, you have to catch it again.

bernard;832741 wrote: This thread is about whether a person having a hard time with abstinence should take baclofen. The consensus is yes, baclofen is likely relieve the unwanted urge to drink, thereby preventing a relapse. Thus, the treatment under your definition would be prophylactic.

I think you're talking about the other thread started by greg. This one is about a medicine providing a long term solution. Or more specifically "the drug doesnt do that work for you..... any way you look at it..... there is no pill that completley wipes out addiction in my opinion.... its much more deeper than a brain temporary thing that needs a chemical tweak..."

He's right, it doesn't. TSM does. It does all of that.

bernard;832741 wrote: My point is that debating whether balcofen is a "cure" is an exercise without reward, and could only confuse those looking for help.

Then debate about it with the OP. Or don't "trifle" with it at all. I've chosen my terminology, there is no debate in my mind. You use your words and I'll use mine. "Confused" newcomers should know that there is a difference and they can make up their own mind.

Due to the haste with which I wrote this (because I didn't want to) it may sound like I am mad or well...short. I'm just short on time and am not upset at all.

[Guitarista]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

Great post Reg, and thought provoking thread.

Best wishes all.

[Henrietta]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

Can Baclofen keep you stopped??

...the perfect topic/question for me right now!

I could really use the help of all you long-timers please. I?m going on 2 months AF on baclofen. I hit my switch at 130mg and all was going very well. I slowly began to tirate down. When I reached 50 mg, the cravings returned in earnest, along with a hellacious craving for sugar of all things! So far I haven?t had anything to drink. Instead I increased the baclofen up to 70 mg and I?m holding. As I wrote in another post, I?ve always known that this disease is a multi-headed monster. I also knew in my heart I knew one drug was never going to fix it all and Baclofen has just given me the much needed breathing room to figure what else I need to do. But this setback has really demoralized me.

Is it permanent? Did I go too fast? Please, if anyone else has experienced this, I would love your advice!

[Lo0p]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

I think it's just dose-dependent suppression Henrietta. You haven't done any lasting damage. Get your dose back to where you are comfortable and go from there.

I know that for me, it takes me at least a week before I really know whether or not a dose is going to work for me long term. And if I go too low, it takes me a few days at a higher dose to get rid of cravings.

[Lo0p]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

A lurker from the TSM forums declared themselves cured this morning. I hope they don't mind the reprint:

TSM board lurker wrote: Wel, guess what? You were right.

Something happened about two weeks ago. After having my usual weekly evening of drinking (I had about four glasses), I haven't had a craving since. I guess the extinction process has finally reached the tipping point at which I have no further desire for alcohol. I even went to a couple of dinners at friends' homes during which a glass of wine was placed in front of me. Just to push the envelope a bit (I can be like that), I picked up the glass to smell the wine. Nope. Didn't want any. Just plain DID NOT WANT IT. I haven't had a single craving for two weeks now. Yes, the random thought has crossed my mind (wouldn't a glass of wine be nice right now?) but the thoughts have come and gone in an instant. This is FANTASTIC. I actually think I can say I'm cured.*

Thank you so much for your encouragement. We have got to get the word out about TSM!

*As long as I always have Naltrexone with me, just in case, of course."

"Thanks, Corkit. It feels AWESOME. Life is GOOD. I remember feeling this way years ago, back before I had a drinking problem.[Bold mine] Life seems full of potential once again. In another post I compared it to that scene in The Wizard of Oz when Dorothy first opens the door of her house and everything suddenly changes from black-and-white to technicolor. Like living in a new world.

It took me a total of 29 weeks to say I'm cured. A little longer than some, and part of that was that my drinking level had dropped so low that the extinction process had probably slowed way down. Someone else posted that when your cravings are extinguished, you will know it: the difference is not subtle. That person was right, at least in my case. One week I was thinking I might be destined to be a once-a-week drinker forever, the next week I had no desire to ever drink again.

Pretty cool.

You will get there!!!!!

This person takes no medication and is no longer addicted to alcohol. There may yet still be "relics" of alcoholism left in their brain and when they arise they can simply take nal and drink through it, further extinguishing the problem.

They can stay abstinent as easily as giving up lima beans forever and never take any medication again. Or drink if they want to whenever they do, and take a pill to avoid becoming re-addicted in the long run.

If we met this person "years ago, back before [they] had a drinking problem" would we have called them an alcoholic?

No.

That is the state their brain is in now. They are not an alcoholic, but genetically predisposed to become one. That is why they will take naltrexone before drinking again, as a prophylactic.

[gratitude]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

hey loop,
did you try tsm? i know you said you were on bac, right? did you do a combination? do you moderate or are you af? sorry for the ?'s. its been awhile since i've followed mwo. thanks gratitude

[Lo0p]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

Hi, yeah I'm doing TSM and bac.

The problem is I reached my switch on bac very easily and the point at where I'm at in my life right now I'm not interested in drinking at all. It is fully my intention to take nal before I drink every time I do, but I'm just not doing it all that often currently.

Moderate is kind of a funny word for me. I drink whenever I want to, however much I want. Which is about 10 times so far this year.

I may even back off the baclofen at some point to speed up the process. I'm an amateur bodybuilder and currently sitting at a bodyfat level of about 9%. That kind of shape and AL don't mix too well and well, I feel great right now so I'm putting off my cure until later.

[gratitude]

Can baclofen keep you stopped

wow.congrats. i am an avid cyclist with some upcoming races this summer. i got into the leadville 100 mountain bike race in august so i'm psyched about that. exercise helps me tremendously.i am sure you understand that. so good to hear you are doing well. thanks for answering. grat.