Baclofen accelerating ageing

[Maxfrombx]

Hello all,

I'm a firm defender of baclofen, using it myself.

However, I find it causing hair loss, but, morevover, accelerating aging. I found several posts on this forum discussing theses issues.

Baclofen is an old drug with good background. But if one searches the odds related to the drug, he'll find hundreds of adverse reactions/deaths related to it.

I'm a firm believer that baclofen is way better than chronic alcoholisation.

Anyway, it seems that "there's no easy way out, there's no shortcut home". > No miracle pill coming without any side-effect, especially at the dosages required for alcoholism cure.

I was looking at Ameisen's interviews from different periods, and was also struck by the aging he seems to undergo, even considering the beard he adopted.

Looking forward to your opinions. Apparently this forum requiers 2 posts to provide links, so I'll put them with spaces.

http ://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1382/ameisen1.jpg

http ://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7285/ameisen2.jpg

[christyacc]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

I have noticed hair loss and graying since I started...I am willing to trade off.

[Maxfrombx]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

My father just called me and talk about a radio interview with Pr Ameisen and baclofen.
He told me, "I don't know what's this guy has been through, but his voice is alarming, that's an hopeless voice. Your guy is just confirming that we have almost no background in this field".

I was defending the "hero", but at the same time, was also questionning the miracle cure in the back of my mind.

[Maxfrombx]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

OK here are the pics:

[eight days a week]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

I see no significant difference in those photos whatsoever. A grey-haired man grows a beard (as many men of any age do), and guess what? It has a lot of grey in it.

Judging someone on their voice is absolutely ridiculous.

You are aware that the high dosage required to reach the 'switch' is only for a short time? And that after that one needs only to take a far smaller 'maintenance' dose daily?

Maxfrombx;841460 wrote:

Baclofen is an old drug with good background. But if one searches the odds related to the drug, he'll find hundreds of adverse reactions/deaths related to it.

Links please.

[Maxfrombx]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

I see no significant difference in those photos whatsoever.
Well I do, in the videos, however.

Judging someone on their voice is absolutely ridiculous.
It depends. You can judge a tired voice as well as an energetic/enthousiastic voice. There's definitly some limits however.

You are aware that the high dosage required to reach the 'switch' is only for a short time? And that after that one needs only to take a far smaller 'maintenance' dose daily?

Of course. But the maintenance dose can be fairly high. Even at 100mg, it's equal to 10G of Phenibut a day, which is a massive dose.

Links please.

Baclofen Side Effects

Here you can find a "few" reports about baclofen (379), by physicians across the planet.
Reported deaths: 45, reported hospitalizations: 210
Some involves polymedication. But others are reports of severe adverse effects at low doses.

Please keep in mind that I'm a baclofen defender. Just swallowing 50mg right now. I just think that we have to keep our eyes open.

[hopefulspirit]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

Do we need this right now? I don't see any evidence. The fact that the guy has been doing this for over 12 years.. OF COURSE he aged. I can't imagine SE's worse than the debilitating consequences you will have if you keep drinking or more so, drink heavily. And how he sounded on a radio shoe (3rd party nonetheless) could have so many factors if even relevant.

Wide eyes open is great but keep them that far open the next time you open (insert fav. drink here)...

Please understand that I appreciate your concern/post but I don't think two aged images and a 3rd party account of his radio demeanor is valid.

For the record, I am up to 120 and have a history of hair loss but have ZERO issues right now. Likewise, less drinking means I am losing weight and my appearance has improved for the better. My physical confidence is UP because of this drug.

I would also encourage you to compare your reported deaths/hospitalizations to alcohol/drug addiction deaths/illnesses. Are you kidding me? Let's not exclude the victims the drunk drivers in this account.

Sorry... Had to vent on this. Bac is my hope and it's working. Normally, I would not be able to type this at this hour.

HS

[tryagain]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

The doctor just looks tired to me - and considering his work load spreading the word with this I think it is no wonder.

Even if it has aged him a bit, I think looking a bit older than your years is better than dead. I will worry about that if I come to it.

I looked at the SE page, and came to the conclusion many of theose cases could have had those 'side effects' anyway with or without the bac.

I will not let these things put me off and I hope others dont either.

I also wonder about the rest of your life thing. I dont see why it has to be a forever drug personally. If someone takes it for 2 years and cravings are completely gone and the person never desires a drink then during those 2 years new patterns and new ways of reacting to situations will emerge, and after 2 years those new ways will be the natural way the person reacts. I think when at that stage it would not be unrealistic to stop taking bac, maybe have a dose at hand for a while if the person felt they needed to take it.

That is what I am hoping for anyway.

[Cinders]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

Dr. Amiesen is at an age where we do age quickly.

I, myself, saw it in my parents and many others.

You hit your late 50s and the signs of aging accelerate.

My parents never took Baclofen.

Later mid-life does suck. We go from what is acceptable in society to old.

I kind of look forward to being old because I never thought I could get there due to this disease.

I have much to live for in terms of grandchildren and am even thinking I might make it to see my great grandchildren like my non-drinking parents have.

But, I vividly recall how much my parents aged in those late 50s to early 60s years.

It is called life.

Love,
Cindi

[tm1210]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

50s to 60s IMO is when you do see alot of changes in people. I seen it in my parents especially my dad. Its the age where you start looking like a proper grand parent if that makes sense!? By the way I can't really see much diffenence in those 2 pics posted above. It also probably doesn't help that the guys had a pretty hard life.

[beatle]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

I agree with every single post here, and appreciate each person's contribution in elucidating these issues.

And I do think max is voicing legitimate concerns. No need to convince him that Bac is better than the alternative. In his first post he wrote:

"I'm a firm believer that baclofen is way better than chronic alcoholisation." He also states that he will continue to use bac, despite his concerns.

I think max was just bringing up some pertinent issues and I found them very interesting -- especially the part about deaths from bac.

I am certain I had heard that bac had never caused a fatality (or had never been know to cause a fatality), so this is very surprising (to say the least).

I looked at that site and I see that almost every single patient who died (or was hospitalised) was being administered multiple medications, including benzos, even more than one benzo in some cases. Some of the patients who died were taking as many as 10 strong medications at the time of death. I believe this makes the cause of death (or hospitalisation) difficult to determine, and it is certainly doubtful that the patients died from just baclofen. I hope this eases the minds of those who may have been as shocked as I was.

Regarding aging:

I noticed the same side effects as most others. My greyless hair started to grey (although I am over 40, so this is not a surprise!) and my face appeared to start sagging more. However, after a couple months of this, the process seemed to stop, and even reverse itself (at least as far as the sagging goes). I think it is a matter of your body getting used to the baclofen. At first, the muscle relaxing affect causes the sagging, but as your body learns to cope with it, your facial muscle pick up again.

I hope this also eases the minds of others who may worry about accelerated aging.

Thank you max, for bringing up these issues.

[Henrietta]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

I call bullshit

You come here and present yourself as an advocate of Baclofen to somehow prove how fair minded you are, right before you label it as dangerous, deadly, and the fountain of rapid aging thrown in just for good measure. You?ve just released my inner pit bull?

Your compelling evidence point by point:

Hair loss and accelerated aging in general: everything you cite on this is completely anecdotal. Just what you?ve casually picked up from surfing websites or talking to your dad. As someone else here has already pointed out, many of us are middle-aged. Many of us have long histories of hard drinking, along with neglecting nutrition and our general health. Many here also probably partake in that other vice that goes so well with drinking: cigarette smoking. (Just a wild guess, but as long as we?re throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks, I wonder if Dr. A, being a Frenchman of a certain age, could possibly be a smoker? Hmmm)

You say,

"Even at 100mg, it's equal to 10G of Phenibut a day, which is a massive dose."

This sentence is sheer idiocy. To even invite comparison between two fundamentally different drugs requires an Olympic-worthy leap in logic. Two. Different. Drugs. Yet you happily conflate the two without offering a shred of scientific evidence to support your point. Actually, you don?t even bother to MAKE a point, you're just using shadowy innuendo to engage in fear-mongering.

Then there's this pearl:

"Here you can find a "few" reports about baclofen (379), by physicians across the planet.
Reported deaths: 45, reported hospitalizations: 210
Some involves polymedication. But others are reports of severe adverse effects at low doses."

These 'reports' are NOT scientific studies of any kind. Random cases are not the same as clinical trials. Anyone, anywhere, reporting on any side-effect can file a report on this website with no metrics gathered, no histories taken.

This particular website gives the same number of reported deaths from ADVIL (45), and cites over 500 hospitalizations from it as well. Care to raise the same hysterical alarm for Advil as you do for Baclofen?

Then you really throw down the hard evidence. Two pictures of Dr. A and an account of his 'hopeless' old man voice as reported by your dad. Well that settles, doesn't it?

Baclofen has seen many of us safely and successfully to the other side. It has saved lives, mine included. I'm all for full disclosure and getting the facts out there so everyone can make good, informed decisions. That's not what you are contributing here.

What I find most despicable about your post Max is that the whole time you're spouting nonsense, you are also claiming to be an unbiased advocate of Baclofen. There?s a lot of intelligent people on this site who will see through your bullshit immediately. But there are also a lot of frightened people here who are just staring out and learning about Baclofen. They are coming here in good faith. They are desperate, vulnerable people who are just about out of options. And you show up here in a Trojan horse to pedal fear and disinformation.

Just what are you selling Max? My guess in you are from the rehab industry. Or maybe from a pharma company that?s trying to re-package baclofen for fun & profit. Who cares. Shame on you anyway.

Henrietta

[Cinders]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

Henrietta,

Cool it.

On this website, people are allowed to post what they think.

If you had posted your response without the anger, I believe it would have been very helpful. But, now there will be those who are "up in arms" because you have posted such anger.

Do not get angry.

Post the facts and only the facts, ma'am.

As my hubby says, "Truth shall overcome, as long as emotions do not get involved."

Cindi

[Cinders]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

ps I am a math major. I do so much better with just the facts.

[beatle]

Baclofen accelerating ageing

Henrietta, perhaps our posts crossed, but I hope you will read (or reread) my post.

I truly believe max was bringing up valid concerns without bashing baclofen.

He says: "I'm a firm believer that baclofen is way better than chronic alcoholisation."

And calls "bac" a "miracle pill" and acknowledges that side effects are to be expected:

"No miracle pill comes without any side-effect, especially at the dosages required for alcoholism cure."

Max shared his non-emotional personal thoughts and concerns about baclofen, and it's difficult for me to interpret his post as disingenuous.

Granted, he got a little defensive when others on this site reacted so negatively and emotionally. The comparative pictures and the pathetic voice discussion were sidetracks and diverted from the serious themes of side effects and death.

I understand why others jumped on max -- it's easy to feel he does a disservice to bac by putting forth concerns -- concerns which may be unfounded and merely hypothetical... and certainly (clearly) incendiary to some.

Nonetheless, I believe this was a sincere post which initiated an interesting and valuable discussion.

Like Cindi, I like to know the facts. We should all be working together to find the facts.

And I'd like everyone to feel free to ask questions, voice their concerns, and air their ideas.