If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

[Guest]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

This is exactly what I do believe - I too spent years trying to work out my underlying reasons for my anxiety and couldn't find them because AL was covering everything up. To recover you must remove AL first of all which is the physical/biological part which can be achieved by pharmacological means, it's only then you can start addressing the reason for using AL. Yes I have had the addiction mechanism explained as part of a detailed lecture some years ago, and I do know it's all linked in with GHB/GABBA receptors and the like. I also understand fully the biochemical mechanisms involved that reawaken if you do take just one drink and how that then sets off future, acute cravings.

Meds are not a cure for the illness as a whole, however they can help with removing the actual physical and biochemical addiction mechanisms thus allowing the underlying problems to be addressed.

[Road to Recovery]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

Ukblonde;870785 wrote: I had thought this thread was a debate but can see only positive experiences would be accepted here. I posted as someone who HAS tried meds and am very informed having read and researched just about every way to solve drinking problems. Most people I have spoken with in person including Drs, 'Specialists', counsellors, therapists usually comment on my level of knowledge, as well as experience on the subject of alcohol problems.

I suppose all that reading and personal experience is wasted as you have already decided I have not got a clue. Great pity and I won't post in this section again as I can see my experiences with meds as well as battling this disease just isn't welcome with some people here. I will have to assume those posting positive experience are proven experts so their comments can be the only ones valid.

I am sorry but no one knows what alcohol addiction does to a person but us alcoholics. Those Doctors, therapists and "specialists" have no clue what it feels like to have no control over this addiction unless they have gone through it themselves which I think I am safe to say 99% have not - except Dr Ameisen who clearly realized the benefit of baclofen. I wonder where he may be if he was still trying to "sort out his feelings"...
I fully and completely agree with Otter.
UK, I believe there is a section on MWO that people can post in regards to "natural" ways of beating this addiction - maybe you would recieve more positive feedback there than this thread where people are trying to discuss the benefits of baclofen - not the lack of usefullness of drugs.
As always - In My Opinion.

[Guest]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

If you would like to read my post above I do actually state I don't doubt that these drugs DO help deal with the AL part of the illness and never have done. I understand and have tried some of these drugs and do not discredit them for what they actually do - it's just that there is usually a second part underlying part to the illness that can't be fixed with a pill. I also do know that it is only us who know what it's like. I quoted what others had said because someone on here asked how 'qualified' I was and since I'm already a self-confessed alcoholic thought I was expected to have some other proof on top of that. I actually have seen first hand how damaging professionals who have not been alcoholics can be in alcohol treatment and recognise above anything that only alcoholics are the best people to understand this illness.

I feel like I'm typing in a different language right now and not getting anywhere despite actually agreeing with people on here.

So once again for the benefit of those not reading what I'm typing I DO BELIEVE THESE DRUGS DO HELP GET PEOPLE AF I.E. REMOVE THE NEED OR CRAVING TO DRINK. I'm simply saying however it doesn't solve the underlying causes and infact have said it does then help people to realise and work through the underlying stuff.

If actually saying these drugs might or do work in actually getting people AF is not what you want in this part of the forum then I'm not sure what you do want.

All I know is that having people making personal comments without knowing me nor my experiences as well as obviously misinterpreting my posts has left me with mixed feelings. I thought this was a forum where everyone could openly discuss stuff and people were here to help each other. I'm frustrated at logging in and seeing stuff on this thread which is almost a personal attack when I've not disputed the action of the drugs in question - merely said they don't solve the whole issue, which is completely true. Because of the way it's made me feel I've decided not to log on for a few days as I don't feel comfortable with this site any more. Perhaps I will in a few days time.

[beatle]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

I think the concept that you have to deal with your underlying issues as a way to deal with your alcohol problem is putting the cart before the horse.

Of course it is two-fold (at least )...Yes we all have underlying issues. I've spent decades in intense therapy, soul searching, sincere and wholehearted efforts to find and deal with my issues. I believed that these issues, and my inability to deal with them, was the cause of my alcoholism.

But like diabetes and depression, alcoholism is a disease (and I believe it is defined as such by the world health organization and the American medical profession). People with this disease can't control it anymore than any other disease.

We can't cure it through therapy. We can't cure it through determination.

UKblonde tells us how depression medication saved her life. She wasn't saved by looking deep into herself and confronting her issues. She couldn't do that until she received medication.

After starting baclofen and getting control of my drinking, I have finally been able to do some real work on my issues/past/experience.

My therapist said this:

"Until now, we've been putting fires out. Now we are finally making real progress on the underlying issues you need to deal with."

This was after 2 weeks on baclofen.

Horse first, cart second. I'm sitting behind the horse now.

[Anna B]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

Hi--I haven't posted in a long time b/c it's been a crazy busy teaching semester for me. But now that things have quieted down, I'm starting to more thoroughly read through everyone's posts. This one caught my attention.

My experience w/ baclofen is that it has been an amazing anti-craving drug for alcoholism. I've been taking it since summer of '09 (so almost a year) and have had a lot of success but also many bumps in the road (largely due to huge amounts of work and personal stress). So, unless you are an anxiety-free, depression-free, worry-free, etc. kind of person, it may not be a cure-all for your drinking problem. That said, I've never encountered any kind of medication before that would actually remove my desire to drink. However, the "bumps" in the road I've experienced in the last year have not been due to baclofen but due to my in-born inability to deal with stress in my life. I'm starting cognitive-behavioral therapy to deal w/ anxiety now that i have time to do so.

Despite the bumps, I'm a million times better with baclofen than without.

Also, I appreciate everyone's points of view and postings on this board--even when we disagree. Obviously, we're all just trying to get better. Or, for the people who already are better, we're just trying to help. So keep posting!

--Anna

[Anna B]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

beatle;870982 wrote:
My therapist said this:

"Until now, we've been putting fires out. Now we are finally making real progress on the underlying issues you need to deal with."

This was after 2 weeks on baclofen.

Horse first, cart second. I'm sitting behind the horse now.

Beetle--I love this post. So wise and so true--and expresses my sentiments exactly. Thanks.

[Otter]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

I have to agree with beatle. I went through years of being told by doctors that my wife could not be helped until she wanted help and that she obviously did not want help because she continued to drink. No psychiatrist would help or even diagnose her until she stopped drinking. It was a circle of utter despair. So, I looked into the mental health "thing" to find a diagnosis and some help and found that, even if my wife stopped drinking, there weren't office blocks full of psychotherapists waiting to dispense cognitive therapy to alcoholics who had come off alcohol. In fact, there weren't any. I then met a neighbour who was former head of a charity called Mind. I went to their office. I found a part time lady behind a desk in a nearly empty room. She gave me a leaflet about Mind which had a phone number in it for the head office. I phoned the number and spoke to a part time lady in another city who answered phone calls and told people where their local Mind office was.

Then I bought a a book about bipolar called "An Unquiet Mind" by Kay Redfield Jamieson the world's leading authority on the illness and read it from cover to cover only to find out at the end that her entire learning about the illness had been superseded by advances in the study of neurobiology and that, in her words, bipolar was no different from any other kind of depression. Then I discovered that 80% of people with bipolar had underlying alcohol problems so it wasn't possible to say that they actually were bipolar at all.

I then bought a self help book on cognitive therapy for people who had experienced problems with their parents when they were young. It recommended drawing up tables and keeping diaries of thoughts. I tried to get my wife to read it but it just did not help her stop going out and getting a bottle of vodka every day. In the end I think she threw the book at me.

UK, you can do all the soul searching you like. I have had it though, so I won't be contributing to this debate. Best wishes.

[Guest]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

TO clarify this because people are still presuming I'm saying only therapy will stop people from drinking;

(1)I do not for one moment believe that therapy will stop a problem drinker from drinking AL(in fact it often only makes things worse).

(2) I do believe several things including the drugs mentioned DO help people stop drinking

(3) Only after stopping drinking may any underlying issues be addressed via counselling et al.

I have tried it the other way around myself (ie counselling before stopping drinking) several times, and it didn't work.

I don't know why people think I was saying you must go via counselling/soul searching before you can stop because I for sure know that does not work.

Apologies for any confusion and I hope this finally after many attempts makes things clear. Otter I am agreeing with you here and have done all along.

[beatle]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

I think we are all on the same page now.

It's easy to misword a post, misinterpret a post.

But we're all on the same page now.

[beatle]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

Ukblonde;871084 wrote:

(1)I do not for one moment believe that therapy will stop a problem drinker from drinking AL(in fact it often only makes things worse).

(2) I do believe several things including the drugs mentioned DO help people stop drinking

(3) Only after stopping drinking may any underlying issues be addressed via counselling et al.

Yes, we are definitely all on the same page.

[Sunnyvalenting]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

baclofen can work quite well

I think the reason that more alcoholics are not on the meds is , at least for baclofen, the lack of clinical studies at the higher doses which seem to be needed for alcohol dependence. Therefore, when seeking treatment these options are not proferred.

I disagree that the person who fails in their attempts to quit is to blame or lacks will power. I believe the cravings are the reason that a person "relapses" or fails to even get a few days without distress. For me and for 4 others that I know of personally, the cravings are GONE and we can now plan a day, week, month and life without booze. It is such a difference!

The concept of craving is scientifically sound. Ir has been seen on PET scans with cues of less than 33 miliseconds. It occurs at a sub conscous level and oftentimes we often don't even know what triggers the impulses. The Baclofen for me is the simplest and most effective answer. I worked on this problem for a decade before I found out about this medicine. Meanwhile I lost my marriage. I would have loved to have known about this before all that happened

[Sunnyvalenting]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

I think the reason that more alcoholics are not on the meds is , at least for baclofen, the lack of clinical studies at the higher doses which seem to be needed for alcohol dependence. Therefore, when seeking treatment these options are not proferred.

I disagree that the person who fails in their attempts to quit is to blame or lacks will power. I believe the cravings are the reason that a person "relapses" or fails to even get a few days without distress. For me and for 4 others that I know of personally, the cravings are GONE and we can now plan a day, week, month and life without booze. It is such a difference!

The concept of craving is scientifically sound. Ir has been seen on PET scans with cues of less than 33 miliseconds. It occurs at a sub conscous level and oftentimes we often don't even know what triggers the impulses. The Baclofen for me is the simplest and most effective answer. I worked on this problem for a decade before I found out about this medicine. Meanwhile I lost my marriage. I would have loved to have known about this before all that happened

[Otter]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

I don't think this community is about "debating" at all. I have for the first time seen alcoholism in a positive light. I have found in these posts real help and encouragement which I have not had from any quarter for the past 6 years of almost unendurable agony. My little boy, I hope, can look forward to having a happy relationship with a mother who can contribute to his life and not be a curse upon it. The human spirit is alive in these pages. Out of great misery often comes greater understanding and contentment.

[Pink Angel]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

Thank you Beatle!! YES it is a disease. And when in the depths of depression you do not have the ABILITY to 'look inside yourself' or change your thought patterns with CBT. You simply are lucky if you manage to ask for help without suicide. The drugs WILL help with the disease and give you the mental ability to look at other aspects.
I do not believe that EVERYONE has an underlying problem to deal with, maybe some. I believe some of us became alcoholics simply because we enjoyed drinking and the feeling of being drunk and became addicted to it like many other things.
However, arguing about it or trashing one anothers beliefs is detrimental. We are all here for the same reason surely we can agree on that.

[Brave Hearted]

If these meds/supps work why do we still have a drink problem?

Hi Henrietta, you put it into word just how I feel I am a true baclofen convert would sing it from the roof tops ( well if it would not be commiting professional susicide i would) but I like to think I do my bit to put htw word out.

I have untill recntly been doing just what you said you would not do 'I’m not going to beat AL and then curl up and die because not everything has fallen into place.' But I had a life wake up calltoday so going to take some positive step to enjoying and living my sober life.

Grange in my opinion there are numerous reasons why everybody is not taking baclofen and one of the biggest is the people themselves, we have been brainwashed by rehab, AA, doctors, the media and society to believe we are bad and weak willed not sick os lots of people feel like they are weak all over agian resorting to a drug to help cure them !! All I say is just like AA give it 6 weeks and if you dont get on with it go back to your misery !

Grange you join the sad ranks of many of us who have lost our partners because of our drinking, I dearly wish I had found baclofen even a few years ago things would have been very differant, but perhaps thats part of the pathway. I think discussing our views is very theraputic as as RJ called this site we all have to find 'our own way out' and we have to do what feels and sits right with us ! good luck to all I just know baclofen is mine and I thnak god for bringin me here everyday of my life