My Baclofen Experience

[RudyB]

My Baclofen Experience

interesting, pony. i shall try that. i have that need to sink some beers sometimes, i do. thanks for the tip. will let you know how it goes.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

My Baclofen Experience

I went bac through your thread a bit to catch up and WOW! I can't believe how powerful your thoughts are. Too much to even quote, but I learned a couple of new things to throw in my toolbox.

moglor;1114452 wrote: It's as though they can tell from me saying "Hello" that I'm a pathetic drunk.
Yes, well. hmmm. I'm guessing that there is nothing pathetic about you. I've met you here before. Read the good, bad and ugly. I felt pathetic when drunk, too. Probably was pathetic since I was consumed by my patheticness. Not so much, now. I am, like you were when you were taking your meds, after having reached indifference, on fire. Able and ready. Eager, even. Still full of doubts and stuff, but whatev. Who isn't???

Seethepony;1031991 wrote: Hey Moglor, it was reading your story that finally persuaded me to give baclofen a try - back in August. For that I'm eternally grateful!

It's really good to hear you sounding so positive and confident. Your story deserves to be forever stickied at the top of this forum for all newcomers to read. I was really lucky that it was there when I needed it.
What he said.

Ne/Neva Eva;1032479 wrote: Mog,
Your post moved me so much that I've printed it out and added it to the trusty bac notebook.
It moved me so much that I cried a little when I read it.
I forwarded it to my husband. And cut and pasted it to the friends and family who know about baclofen.
And I think I'll bump it from now on when newbies wonder if this stuff actually works.
Thank you.
Karen

What I said.

moglor;1019288 wrote: Today is 8 weeks alcohol free. I have been at 150mg/day for about a week, and I have noticed a slight trend in increased thoughts about alcohol. I'm not sure if these would develop into cravings at a lower dosage, and I'm not keen to find out. I will remain at 150 for another couple weeks and see if anything changes.

I'm back on the wagon with respect to the gym too, going twice a week for now. Hopefully I'll be able to ramp that up more soon. My diet and sleep schedule are still adjusting to the antidepressants and being alcohol free, so I'm pretty wiped out in the afternoon/evening.

...

This last 8 weeks is the longest period of sobriety I've had since my sophomore year in high school (age 15.) Once I turned 16 and had a driver's license, I began smoking cigarettes and weed, and occasionally drinking. Once I turned 17, I got into LSD and various other drugs, and more liquor.

I suspect my brain is starting to rewire, and is trying frantically to sort out the last 20 years...

-Moglor

Great food for thought, there, Mog. With medicine in my toolbox I can sort out and suss out the rest, because the AL becomes a choice and not a need. Bac has been a panacea of sorts for me, or at least I've credited it with such. Truth is sobriety is a panacea for almost ALL that ails me. I'm loathe to delve into the rest of it, but I will. dammit. Like the not having kids thing. Or the fact that it's too late for me to be a supermodel. (as if.) That some people aren't going to like me simply because I'm not x, y or z. (which is really unreasonable, come to think about it, and hurts my feelings.)

Glad you're sharing this part of your journey. Looking forward to hearing more and to what we all know is the end result. Be safe. Be well. Take heart and have hope!
love,
Ne

[moglor]

My Baclofen Experience

Closing in on day 2 AF, 200mg/day. No real cravings to speak of, but I know if I drank a beer, I wouldn't (couldn't) stop. I have decided to renew my quest for weight loss via low-carb in addition to my 4 day/wk gym schedule, so that is giving me some additional internal pressure to stay AF.

Bac SEs have been stronger this time than I seem to recall, but I'm also putting my body through a lot more stress with the agressive workouts. I've added 10g/day of L-Glutamine, and I wonder if that is what has helped me switch relatively painlessly to low carb. I have been suffering "induction flu" for the past couple days, though, at least I hope that's what it is. After Cindi's post, I do worry more about the long-term effects of HDB plus L-Glut plus a ketogenic on my kidneys. After I have been AF for several weeks, I will go in for some blood work just to be sure.

On the bright side, I lost a few pounds in the last week!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

My Baclofen Experience

Hiya, Mog. Congrats on the weight loss.

I'm having this really interesting experience of not working out on a regular basis for the first time in a couple of years. It's amazing how much of a difference it makes in how I feel physically. During the height of my baclofest I started running, and getting the runner's high, only more so because it was accentuated from the bac.
I vividly recall one morning when I was in that horrible place, remembering and remorse-ing all of the stuff that alcoholism has invited into my life. I decided, while on a run, to invite all of that pain in and hopefully expunge it by just running HARD. Didn't work. I was stuck with all that pain and no outlet. But the run was fantastic.
I share that because I found that when I focused on the good things going on when I worked out, I got so much more out of it. I became one of those people who looks in the mirror when they're lifting weights. I like seeing my muscles flex and standing up straight with my shoulders squared. Seeing the difference so distinctly and succinctly allowed me to carry that into my everyday life. Now when I'm feeling bludgeoned, or even just a bit cowed, I can channel THAT Ne. The squared, strong, resourceful one, clad in cute spandex...

I suppose I should post this on the exercise thread or something, but you were in my thoughts when I woke this morning. I dreamed of you last night, though I'm not sure what about!
Hope it's a good day for you John!
xo
Ne

[redhead77]

My Baclofen Experience

At least you drink buckets of H2O every day. Hopefully, that will help flush the ketone bodies and bac out of your system. Can you handle a diet so low carb you go into ketosis? I have tried a few times, and feel great at first, and then I crash. Is L glut hard on the kidneys?

[moglor]

My Baclofen Experience

NE - You dreamed about me? Wow. I hope it was good. :-)

red- I haven't heard anything about l-glut being hard on the kidneys, but a high protein low carb diet can be. I don't have any problems handling the ketogenic diet. By nature, I tend to like those kinds of foods anyhow, but giving up Chinese food and beer is always a killer.

I wish I could say going low carb magically fixed my desire to drink, but it doesn't. It does give me another tool to work with.

This week has been really tough at work, so I haven't been able to ramp up my bac dosage. I drank pretty heavily twice this week, but my overall level is dropping noticeably, and it's getting easier to bypass the booze. Not too much more to say, had to pull an all-nighter last night, and the bac sleepies are gonna be hard to handle today.

[Murphyx]

My Baclofen Experience

Hi Moglor

I?ve just been reading through your thread and I just realised I?ve missed the whole

moglor;1106429 wrote: Who wants to date a balding fat guy?
thing. It?s a very good question and of course the answer is ?Nobody. Why the hell would they??. Or at least that should be the answer, but women are strange creatures and they have odd ideas about men, like

Ne/Neva Eva;1106638 wrote:
Bald is hot. Buffness is overrated
It makes no sense to me but it?s true. I?m a bald fat bloke. Not balding but bald. I started going bald in my late teens. I always knew I was going to be bald, my father and his father went bald very young so I was expecting it and it was never an issue for me. That meant it was easier for me than it is for guys who go bald later. It must be a shock for them and a real kick in the nuts for their egos, but it needn?t be. You may care but women, on the whole, couldn?t give a crap. And they don?t particularly care if you?re fat either. This isn?t bullshit and nor is this:

LittleLessBoozin';1109302 wrote: the fact is that even as a fat ? SOB, I still get to turn the girls down. Actually, I have no idea if Paul turns girls down or not. He may be so drunk he thinks he?s being chatted up by a hot chick when in fact it?s a big hairy Greek docker or then again maybe he has to beat the chicks off with a shitty stick:H. I don?t know, but the point is true though. Most women just don?t care about your weight or whether you?re bald

redhead77;1114525 wrote:
As far as what you perceive you are, chicks don't care.

and some women actually prefer bald men (not the trying to cover it up with a comb-over type bald, but the shave it off or trim it down to 1mm type bald). Red?s actually slightly wrong about that imo. It is important how you perceive yourself. It?s not necessarily a matter of oozing confidence, but just being comfortable with the way you look and knowing that it?s not the important issue.redhead77;1114525 wrote:
ultimately, we don't get turned on by the visual like men do.

Which just goes to prove what I was saying about women being strange, well not strange, just different. They think differently and thank God they do. Vive la difference! It never fails to amaze me when women show an interest in me. As I say, I?m fat and bald (and I?m 10 years older than you) but women like me. It?s a moot point though because I?m married and one of those old fashioned types who respect a relationship. But I know that if I wanted to I could. And it sure as shit ain?t because of my looks.
RudyB;1114936 wrote: redhead says it well when she tells you, mog, to tell yourself every day that you're a total catch. i would love to sit across a table from you. interesting men are so much more fun. smart, eloquent, self-reflective men are such better companions than those who have a full head of hair but nothing underneath.

The women on this thread are telling the truth.

It's a matter of being comfortable in your own skin. Do what you need to do. Get sober, fitter, wealthier, whatever. But remember, you're only doing these things for yourself and they won't alter the way women look at you. Confidence? Yeah, that's important, but it's kinda overrated. Confidence can very easily run into arrogance and most women don't like that. Some do, but then again some women, the shallow ones, just like pretty boys. Hey don't get me wrong, if you just want to get laid then shallow will do just fine. But it won't lead to a meaningful relationship. Being relaxed and comfortable with what you are is important. That's what women pick up on and what appears to be their aphrodisiac.

moglor;1107025 wrote: In real life I'm friendly, caring, successful. I have no "baby mama drama." I have a car. I have a very well paying job. I'm not an ex-con. Shit, I even play guitar. I love animals, I love kids, and I'm a great cook.

Man, you've got it all. You've got the building blocks of what it takes to appeal to women and now you just need to realise that.

[RudyB]

My Baclofen Experience

Hi Mog,

I had a dream last night (not about you, unlike NE!). It was about the latest guy I met, a fellow 10 yrs my junior (he's 31) who's halfway to totally bald already. (And, like someone just described, he keeps his hair that short 1 mm length.) In my dream he was costumed as a Rasta, with a dredlock wig and a tam (once upon a time I had a fetish for Rastas, being from VT where nobody is'nt white, and the exotic had huge appeal, especially the Jamaican variety, as I was so into Reggae music). Anyway... in my dream I yelled after this guy who was totally passing me by in his new hair-full costume: "Hiya Rastaman!" I was mocking him, as he looked so silly with hair. Like he was -durr- trying to be someone he wasn't. Ok, so what's my point? I dunno, just mostly sharing my crazy bac-induced dreams that are worthy of a book of short stories. (Oh, and then this guy was filling pipes w blue cheese, sure that they would get him HIGH as a kite.)

But I'm also telling via the dream how much better it is for a man to embrace himself, even if it's his bald self. Not to beat a dead horse, here, but maybe just looking for an excuse to share my mental ramblings... It's not about the hair. It's about being true to yourself that has its appeal to a woman, to any person, I think. I always admire people who are unabashed in expressing who they are, couched in no terms other than self-acceptance. It's something I strive toward, as a woman who has what a woman is supposed to, in an ideal and sometimes cruel world: looks, intelligence, self-love, a lively spirit, a car, and a good job. (Yet, with that, I still doubt myself like crazy at times.)

Also, i mentioned in a long-ago post that I dated a guy who was bald and chubby. He had a really good chance with me as he was smart, shared interests w me, and came from a really cool family. He blew it because, among other things, he put on a Disney flick, just after I told him I HATE that genre of film, that I'd much rather watch the French film White that I haven't seen in years. (He also nickled and dimed about who'd pay for dinner, who'd pay for the bottle of vodka. Ergh. And he wanted a $20 fee for finding me a free snowboard. ERgh x 2!) My point is that a smart woman will give a guy a chance regardless of superficials. An even smarter woman will dump him when he shows signs of being a tight wad narcissist. (This guy also told me I shouldn't run, as it will make my boobs smaller.) A dummie would stay with a guy after all that nonsense I just described. (Oh, he also took a huge dukie aka doo doo aka shit, and didn't flush, then wanted sex "his way".)

I tell you all of this knowing that it's probably overkill, that I've given you 'nuff encouragement about the bald/overweight thing, about how great it is that you're so introspective and soulful and intelligent, even though you hate yourself which you SHOULDN'T!!! I trust that you're probably moving on to other levels of depth. Guess I wanted to share my funny story, and here seemed the perfect place. And I also wanted to tell you that I'm thinking of you, and that you should take heart that you're not a totally self-absorbed ass hole!

Now, about the running... NE, I had no idea that you do that, too! Hooray, another woman like me, putting one foot -fast- in front of the other. I haven't been able to do it for a week, cause I slapped my foot hard on the pedestal board flying trapeze for the first time in several years (there's a trap school in my area give thanks), but I can't wait for the repair to finish so I can do what you described in your latest post. I LOVE that stuff, too, that feeling-good, getting-it-all-out experience that we have when we're in our full power, zooming along. Hooray!

Okay, enough for now. I love you guys on here. I'm off to garden, without a trowel. But things could be worse. It could still be raining...
XOXO Rudy

[moglor]

My Baclofen Experience

Wow, what wonderful posts full of encouragement on my thread today! Thank you! Now I'm off to celebrate the Rapture. See you all tomorrow. :-)

[redhead77]

My Baclofen Experience

moglor;1118008 wrote: Wow, what wonderful posts full of encouragement on my thread today! Thank you! Now I'm off to celebrate the Rapture. See you all tomorrow. :-)

I'm glad that didn't happen. I wasn't ready to go to heaven today.

[RudyB]

My Baclofen Experience

mog, where are you? how are you? i can't believe your thread slipped to the second page. c'mon, check in here, would'ja?!

[moglor]

My Baclofen Experience

Hi Rudy! I've been trying to think of something to write down for the past few days, but I seem to have lost my voice. It's been a very difficult few weeks, due in large part to extreme stress at work. I'd like to say I remained AF, but this was not the case. I had a couple frightening experiences over the past couple weeks, one in which I drank about 30 beers without having eaten anything all day, and another in which I drank 8 beers then the vast majority of a 750mL bottle of vodka, after 150mg or so of bac. I'm not really sure what I expected the result of this to be, but I was fairly surprised that I woke up in the morning on both occasions, and the hangover made me wish I hadn't.

As Kurt Vonnegut wrote, "Smoking is a fairly sure, fairly honorable form of suicide." I think this applies to alcohol as well, and I wonder if that is the reason I drink so much, even with the full knowledge of the effects, both short and long term, of alcohol abuse. I really don't like myself. I never have, as far back as I can remember. I don't like my life, and I sort of suspect I never will. It may sound trite, but I'm unconvinced that I'll be able to "learn to like myself" while sober. I started drinking and continued drinking for a REASON.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not overtly suicidal, although some may argue against that based on what happened with the vodka. I'm not even particularly depressed. This time, though, I'm not going to let this issue stand between me and sobriety like I have so many times before.

Like the first two go-arounds with bac, I do find myself drinking less often, although when I do drink, it's still to blackout. I am not sure if it was the recent binges, the wavering dosage due to said binges and intense unbearable SEs during the multi-day hangovers, the increased gym schedule or what, but I do feel different today. I have no desire to drink, and in fact I poured out every single remaining liquor bottle I had in my house (mostly vermouth from my Martini days.) I'm not sure why, but I've never done that before.

I don't dare to hope, but this time it really feels different.

Third time's the charm, right?

-John

[RudyB]

My Baclofen Experience

aww, geez, john, sorry to hear about these rough times. i hate that you hate yourself. what can i do to help?!

what came immediately to mind when i read that last post of yours was, for what it's worth, maybe you should check out this book called the mood cure by i forget her name. but it almost sounds like you could use some brain-altering support of the likes she describes via her research. truth be told, i haven't read it, but i have read the diet cure, and it was incredible, what she reports therein. she's all about amino acids and brain chemistry and how our huge life challenges are often due to our lacking in these essentials. her emprical evidence is very convincing. stunning, really.

i have a hard time swallowing that such an intelligent man as yourself, you with that uncommon emotinal intuition and will to live right, should suffer as you do. it strikes me as some kind of imbalance, one that can be corrected. i'm sorry, but being overweight and bald is not enough of a reason to do things that could make you die, especially when you don't have the conscious will to die.

so mog, do me a favor and order that book. just give it a look-see, and let me know what you think or do because of it, even if it's nothing. pm me if you'd like, because i've become a bit attached to you and your well-being, and i want to do whatever i can to support you in your healing.

sometimes i see a man out and about in the world, whether it be in the health food store or at the gas station, and maybe he looks sad or just has some kinda look in his eye that makes me think of you. and i want to just hug him and tell him that he's beautiful, and that he should love himself (and that-all could be partly bac-induced, but regardless, i feel it...). so please know that you are loved and lovable. and live by that. really.

stay in touch here. reach out. most of all, LOVE YOURSELF. as far as i can see, you're quite lovable, so quit it with the nonsense. do us all that favor, because i think i speak for everyone here who knows you, we'd like to see you stick around.

xoxo xo rudyb

[bleep]

My Baclofen Experience

Good post Rudy, and I echo the sentiments it contains.

John, there is an enormous disconnect between the level of thought you convey in each and every post, and your opinion of yourself. I wish you could see it as clearly as we all can. Pretend this is somebody else's thread perhaps, and try and read this thread with a view to getting know Moglor. You'll see he is an interesting guy, with interesting opinions, who has an ability to elicit conversations about each facet of his journey, and is able to describe, better than most of the posters here, how he has dealt with and continues to deal with life's challenges.

[moglor]

My Baclofen Experience

RudyB;1121363 wrote: maybe you should check out this book called the mood cure by i forget her name. but it almost sounds like you could use some brain-altering support of the likes she describes via her research.

You know, I have never been a believer in the whole supplement thing. I have a background in biology, and most of the evidence I see in these tends to run contrary to my knowledge of human physiology. However, since I have been studying and experimenting on myself with various dietary changes, I think there may be more to this than I originally thought. I'm also willing to try damn near anything! I will buy that book and let you know what I think.

RudyB;1121363 wrote:
i have a hard time swallowing that such an intelligent man as yourself, you with that uncommon emotinal intuition and will to live right, should suffer as you do. it strikes me as some kind of imbalance, one that can be corrected. i'm sorry, but being overweight and bald is not enough of a reason to do things that could make you die, especially when you don't have the conscious will to die.

I agree that it's some kind of imbalance, whether chemical or psychological, I don't know. I suffered a lot of bullying in elementary school due to the fact that I was more interested in reading, computers and technology than basketball. I lived with constant reminders of the fact that I was a disappointment to all the authority figures in my life because I "wasn't living up to my potential." Did this shape my current self-image? Undoubtedly.

When I started drinking and taking drugs in high school, it was in large part in order to fit in with a group of friends. Starting the trend of self-medication at such an early age certainly contributed to reinforcing the fact that I can't feel good about myself without heavy doses of mind-altering chemicals.

All that being said, I truly do not believe that my childhood and high school experiences greatly differ from most, or that everyone with drug and alcohol dependency or depression had such experiences. Why did I end up with this condition when others seem to have moved past it? Who knows. Genetics? I went to therapy when I was 12, but it was not useful. I am still debating therapy again to try and address the root causes of my self hatred. I'm pretty sure I know what they are, but I am not sure what to do about it.

In terms of the bald/fat thing, I don't really care so much about being balding. I accept that there is little I can do about that. Being fat, though, really bothers me, as it was of my own making, and I *can* do something about that. I use being fat and balding as a generic excuse for why women don't like me. In reality, I believe I simply sabotage myself at every turn because I can't accept that I am worthy of anyone's affections. How can I possible allow someone to get close to me when I'm such a trainwreck? Of course, like I'm about to point out to bleep, nobody actually knows how big a trainwreck I really am.

bleep;1121528 wrote: John, there is an enormous disconnect between the level of thought you convey in each and every post, and your opinion of yourself. I wish you could see it as clearly as we all can.

Oh, trust me, I see it. In pretty much every walk of life, I do things: work, music, writing, exercise, cooking, gaming. I actually *dislike* doing these things because I never feel like I can do them well enough. I never see any improvement, but like you said, everyone around me comments on my various "talents": how good I am at my job, how good my music sounds, how well I write, how good my cooking is, how good I am at various games..

So you see, I have all this empirical evidence that I am not actually as bad as I know I am, but I still feel like I'm living a lie; That nobody knows how truly bad I am at all these things.

It's a real pickle, and the antidepressants only marginally work to keep it all from being too much to bear.

In other news, I'm on day 4 AF. I kicked it up to 250mg, and I'm feeling pretty spaced out, but otherwise OK.

-John