craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

56.25mg Baclofen
400mg L-Theanine

I have continued to titrate down Baclofen, and have reduced L-Theanine because I am running out of pills and the shipment has not arrived yet.

I have reduced Baclofen by 1/4 of a 25mg pill. The pill cutter is really handy for that.

So far I am okay. Hard to tell any effects yet, as normally I feel the difference in dose 2-3 days after reduction of the dose.

For the moment I have to take pain killers, that could maybe increase the retention of Baclofen in my blood. We will see in how far that affects me once I stop with them.

236 AF days, 173 ADF days

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

56.25mg Baclofen
400mg L-Theanine
25mg Dexketoprofen - NSAID pain killer

Normally on reducing Baclofen I encounter anxiety and fear. For this reason I have searched for natural remedies to help me.

On my last reduction I had to take constantly a NSAID pain killer that could effect the amount of Baclofen that is in my blood.
My anxiety is at more or less normal levels at moment. At least it feels like that.

Since a few days I have the desire to get 'high'. No matter with what. The thought is not bound to alcohol.
Maybe the combination with Dexketoprofen has resolved the anxiety, and I just feel the other effect that Baclofen has - the anti-addiction effect.

Seeing how many people voluntarily try to reduce Baclofen shows that its not an abuseable substance. At the same time, people with addictions who receive an unwanted prescription for Baclofen (saw especially reports about opioid abusers) will not take it, as it (unwanted) reduces their wish to abuse.
So my guess is, that our body wants to get off Baclofen so we can do our addiction thing again. Persons who had an addiction before will always be vulnerable to new addictions.

I will wait for a few days to see what happens with the current dose of Baclofen, and I am seriously considering returning to 62.5 - 75mg / day and taking Baclofen for the rest of my life at this dose.

Since taking Baclofen I was always in reality, I was not taking anything to alter my mental state - not even coffeine. And absolutely nothing to 'escape world'.
With Baclofen my life will be full of pleasant things and my life expectation is perfectly normal. On the contrary if I reduce Baclofen further I see myself becoming addicted again to a drug, which would have a deep impact on my life.
Baclofen has changed my life into the positive. Life is so much nicer to enjoy in an unaltered ('pure') way, rather than altering our state of mind with drugs. My business and my life underwent so many positive developments, I do not want to loose this again.

[Light Of Daz]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Craving, just wanted to thank you for posting your progress... very good to read and take under advisement for myself. ^

[christyacc]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

What is ADF?

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

ADF = Antidepressant Free

[christyacc]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Thank you! I find it very promising that you have gone off your antidepressants. I am at a mere 60mgs of bac per day, my second time around. I am taking things a little slower this time around, and trying to be a little more responsible.

I have hopes to go off my antidepressants (Cymbalta) in the near future.

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Christy,

Baclofen works as a mild anti-depressant. I simply did not need to take an antidepressive anymore, also without alcohol you have nothing that drags you down.

Feels really great without AD, and I am sure you will manage that too. Have not been depressed a single day since stopping the AD!!

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

GABAB medicine is the key to drug addiction

PAM's (positive allosteric modulators) the improvement of Baclofen. PAM's work comparable like a dimmer - increasing the activity of a receptor without binding by itself to the receptor.

ScienceDirect - Behavioural Brain Research : Administration of GABAB receptor positive allosteric modulators inhibit the expression of previously established methamphetamine-induced conditioned place preference


Since Baclofen will never get officially approved for Alcohol Treatment - also because it has no patent anymore, the future will be a GABAB PAM that has a patent and will be officially released for drug addiction.

Sadly I think this will need another 10 years to accomplish. By then people will look back to our self-administration of Baclofen and laugh

[Publius]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

that is an awesome find crav!!:goodjob:

I'm not really clear as to how a PAM works but a quick search revealed some promising results. I think I'd be really happy if a patent was taken out on a treatment similar to bac for an AD. It would lead to greater understanding of the general population as to what the disease really is, and would start to dispel the notion that this is something we have any control over, and that it is in no way a behavioral shortcoming. I've heard addiction specialists, the people who should especially believe this to be a neurological malady, tell me to do things to change my behavior, because they can't effing understanding that I can't. (or should I say, couldn't)

craving;1000003 wrote:

Sadly I think this will need another 10 years to accomplish. By then people will look back to our self-administration of Baclofen and laugh

I for one won't be laughing, I think what is done here is brave. At great peril to themselves (as all experimental treatments are perilous), especially w/o doctors' supervision, people here have done what is necessary to put this disease in its rightful place, in the rearview ...but i get your drift

:thanks: for the new study...

p.s. on this subject, does anyone know about arbaclofen? it works on the r-isomer. It's patentable. It is currently being used in trials for aspergers, which is syndrome I have a hunch we will be linking closer to AD than you all might realize at the moment.

[terryk]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Publius;1000024 wrote:
p.s. on this subject, does anyone know about arbaclofen? it works on the r-isomer. It's patentable. It is currently being used in trials for aspergers, which is syndrome I have a hunch we will be linking closer to AD than you all might realize at the moment.

Yeah, I noticed this a while back (I thought that *this* was the pharma stock to invest in if I had money, a baclofen prodrug that would eliminate the need for multiple daily baclofen dosing *and* produce a completely "R" baclofen enantiomer - which might reduce or eliminate many side effects)....

Arbaclofen placarbil, a novel R-baclofen prodrug: improved absorption, distribution, metabolism, and elimination properties compared with R-baclofen.

Lal R, Sukbuntherng J, Tai EH, Upadhyay S, Yao F, Warren MS, Luo W, Bu L, Nguyen S, Zamora J, Peng G, Dias T, Bao Y, Ludwikow M, Phan T, Scheuerman RA, Yan H, Gao M, Wu QQ, Annamalai T, Raillard SP, Koller K, Gallop MA, Cundy KC.

XenoPort, Inc., 3410 Central Expressway, Santa Clara, CA 95051, USA. ritu.lal@xenoport.com
Abstract

Baclofen is a racemic GABA(B) receptor agonist that has a number of significant pharmacokinetic limitations, including a narrow window of absorption in the upper small intestine and rapid clearance from the blood. Arbaclofen placarbil is a novel transported prodrug of the pharmacologically active R-isomer of baclofen designed to be absorbed throughout the intestine by both passive and active mechanisms via the monocarboxylate type 1 transporter. Arbaclofen placarbil is rapidly converted to R-baclofen in human and animal tissues in vitro. This conversion seems to be primarily catalyzed in human tissues by human carboxylesterase-2, a major carboxylesterase expressed at high levels in various tissues including human intestinal cells. Arbaclofen placarbil was efficiently absorbed and rapidly converted to R-baclofen after oral dosing in rats, dogs, and monkeys. Exposure to R-baclofen was proportional to arbaclofen placarbil dose, whereas exposure to intact prodrug was low. Arbaclofen placarbil demonstrated enhanced colonic absorption, i.e., 5-fold higher R-baclofen exposure in rats and 12-fold higher in monkeys compared with intracolonic administration of R-baclofen. Sustained release formulations of arbaclofen placarbil demonstrated sustained R-baclofen exposure in dogs with bioavailability up to 68%. In clinical use, arbaclofen placarbil may improve the treatment of patients with gastroesophageal reflux disease, spasticity, and numerous other conditions by prolonging exposure and decreasing the fluctuations in plasma levels of R-baclofen.

[ignominous]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

I just knew there was some thought behind some of the posts.

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Very interesting about Arbaclofen

XenoPort, Inc. ? Product Candidates ? XP19986

definitely a website I will closely monitor :-)

If Arbaclofen is interesting for people to switch from Baclofen will show. Most likely it will be 3-4 times as expensive on a monthly base because of the patent.

[terryk]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

ignominous;1000104 wrote: I just knew there was some thought behind some of the posts.

If you're referring to me, it's *a lot of* and *all*

A while back I started a post about baclofen potency (specifically why some brands may work better/feel stronger than others): Baclofen Potency

Basically, I was exploring the idea that all baclofen preparations available are a mixture of two identical (but mirror opposite, and hence different) molecules that behave in the body differently. R-baclofen seems like the one we might most be interested in, and a prodrug that produces only R-baclofen seems like a very big step in the right direction. -tk

[Publius]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

edit

[Publius]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Terry-
I just read that thread...very, very interesting. It bears signifigance for me, as after about 3 weeks of treatment, I switched from wal-greens to Costco as my pharmacy for baclofen, as Costco was SIGNIFIGANTLY cheaper. After about 2 days on the Costco brand, however, I started to feel intense pressure on my chest, and was also extremely fuzzy. After switching back to the other manufacturer (which costco ordered for me, and was still SIGNIFIGANTLY cheaper) the side effects dissapated and I assumed it was a reaction to the excipients, not the baclofen itself. After reading your thread, however, I am rethinking this as it may have been a different formulation of the drug itself, and not an adverse reaction to the excipients.


very interesting indeed...:wd: