craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

[craving]

Hello,

This is a continuation of this thread
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f9...0-a-39824.html

I have started on 23. April 2009 with TSM therapy, taking most of the time 50mg Naltrexone 1 hour before drinking. Initially it had good effect on me, but effect wore out, and after 8 months I was just were I started. - drinking 5-7 US units a day ... 5-7 days a week.

That is when I decided to start with Baclofen on the 8. Jan 2010, and I am AF since 16. Jan 2010.

Baclofen has removed the craving from me, and I was able to stop virtually effortless to drink. I have hit my switch around 300mg and have since then lowered my Baclofen intake.

I managed to go down to 37.5mg per day on Baclofen without any craving. The problem I had was anxiety attacks, that seriously effected my life.

Since 22. May 2010 I am taking Baclofen mainly against anxiety. I have upped Baclofen to 75mg and my anxiety attacks are gone.

Even got today my Mulungu order - but not planning on trying it out yet. Mulungu is the bark of a tree and from this a tea can be made, which has anti-anxiety effects.

for now my anxiety is under control. I believe that the anxiety is the rational feeling that I have now instead of craving - which already suggested the solution the anxiety "drinking".
see thread
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...hol-42714.html

I will post future progress in this Thread.

141 AF days, 78 ADF days :thumbs:

[Sunnyvalenting]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

It sometimes takes awhile to figure out what works. Glad you and I both kept trying. What a relief. I had promised my son that I would not necessarily succeed, but would keep trying. I wish these options were more widely known. AA and the like seem to have a stranglehold on the info and media IMO.
Sunny

[eight days a week]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

My friend, always great to read each and every post you make, thank you so much for keeping us updated with your news

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

sunny - I am so glad Baclofen works for you!!

8 - lovely to see you around my friend! Hope all is well with you!!

I am now 2 weeks (14 days) on 75mg Baclofen. My logical thinking is by now less impacted - the first week on the increase, very often I had thoughts that in the first moment sounded good but on the second look I could not figure out anymore how I could ever consider this 'logical' !

Still feeling a pressure in my head - especially in the afternoons. It is actually a pleasant feeling. Like a pressure holding me up from anxiety potholes!

It appears to me that, the longer Baclofen is taken the stronger it acts against anxiety. I would guess that this is because I seem to exit the vicious circle that my shrink would describe as 'fear of having fear'. The anxiety itself lets me automatically avoid situation and attaches bad feelings to normal things, so when I upped Baclofen I first had to unload those feelings step by step. Now that I slowly see things normal again, the anti-anxiety effect can work even better!

I am so happy that anxiety is gone. It really has had a serious impact of my life. Trying to re-work some things in my brain now (i.e. existence fears before upping Baclofen is just the result of never 'having enough (success/money)' - its time to figure out what is really worth and needed in life and to let the rest go).

Life is beautiful. blue sky. no depressions and 80 days without AD!

Thank you Baclofen I really appreciate all that you have done for me. :l
Baclofen is so much better than what my shrink would have given me!

143 AF days, 80 ADF days :thumbs:

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

75mg Baclofen
10g L-Glutamine
800mg L-Theanine

No anxiety anymore, everything has normalized. My psychosis are gone!
I start to think that all this is related to withdrawal of Baclofen. Probably that is the reason why Baclofen is considered a drug taken for life.
75mg Baclofen is not bad, and even my shrink would prescribe that. I figured I could probably go down a little. My effective supportive dose lies around 60-75mg, everything below that started to seriously effect my life.

Having a little issue with food at the moment. Gained 4 kg in 1 months by over-eating. Trying to get that under control. Sometimes it seems I have no limit and just keep eating and eating, although my stomach must be totally full already. I hope to have that under control soon.

Still feeling like Baclofen is effecting me, but in a positive way. In the morning (when Baclofen and all other GABA related supplements) are out of my body I am much easier irritable - a few hours later when blood concentration is back to normal I am hard to upset - very calm. I really like that.

150 AF days :day6: ... and 87 ADF days

[controll]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

You say your effective range is 60-75mg. Anything below that starts affecting your life , what do you mean by that???

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

controll;887065 wrote: You say your effective range is 60-75mg. Anything below that starts affecting your life , what do you mean by that???

I was previously at 37.5mg before doing the increase back up to 75mg.
No cravings whatsoever. But I had to daily fight with fear. Any little plan change and I had this very unpleasant feeling in my stomach. Existence fears, that I won't manage to do anything with my life - screwing up big time - and other fears.

My life was controlled by fears. Also I had psychosis. I could notice sometimes for a few minutes I lost the connection to reality, then I thought I was out of it, but it was not over, just the acute part was over. Then over days I felt very strange, and had strange thoughts.

[controll]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Have you ever had intense pressure in your temples,?? Along with panic attack,s, and nothing put gloom and doom thoughts...???

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

controll;888805 wrote: Have you ever had intense pressure in your temples,?? Along with panic attack,s, and nothing put gloom and doom thoughts...???

I had several problems the last months.

1) I took Bupropion, Pseudoephedrine (against my stuffed nose) and Baclofen

that is the first time in my life that I wanted to suicide myself. Everything I saw, my brain made up an idea how to end my life. So I thought Pseudoephedrine was the bad, and remove it. Without Pseudoephedrine I was feeling a lot better and the bad thoughts have been gone for a while

2) I took Bupropion and Baclofen

I had reduced Bupropion to half the dose (from 300mg to 150mg) and had daily panic attacks. On increase of Bupropion the panic attacks went away again after a week. And then again the suicidal thoughts started. I could really see myself doing the things and I was not sure how long I could have controlled myself sufficiently so I went for the first time in my life to a shrink.

3) I took only Baclofen

No suicidal thoughts, but thoughts about destroying things in my life, or doing mildly damage to myself.


On all 3 points I was reducing Baclofen dose. I have read that Baclofen can cause (already existant) psychosis to break out. So I need to keep myself away from other medicaments that can cause negative thinking as that can multiply the effect.

Only after I upped my dose from 37.5 to 75mg all this bad thoughts are completely gone - no psychosis anymore.

I was taking Bupropion and Pseudoephedrine for ages without any problems. Only the combination with Baclofen caused me serious problems!

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

this is mainly meant as a summary for myself

Citalopram maybe erases the effects of Baclofen against craving?

baclofen4alcoholism.com

Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) as Ibuprofen reduce excretion of Baclofen - meaing more SE, or the felt amount of Baclofen in the body is higher than the taken one!

Delirium Associated With Baclofen Withdrawal: A Review of Common Presentations and Management Strategies -- Leo and Baer 46 (6): 503 -- Psychosomatics

withdrawal symptoms emerged within 2 to max. 4 days postcessation of Baclofen
re-initating of Baclofen therapy fixed the problems within 4-72 hours

Previously Unknown Protein Subunits of GABAB Receptors Identified

There are currently two known types of GABA receptors, the GABAA and GABAB receptors. GABAA receptors are responsible for rapid inhibition of the brain and are the main site of action of important drugs like valium, which is used to treat anxiety conditions, in the therapy of epileptic seizures, and as a sleeping aid. GABAB receptors are important for more long-term inhibition of the nerve cells.
GABA-A = fast (addictive) response, GABA-B = slow (long term) response

benzo.org.uk : Benzodiazepines: How They Work & How to Withdraw, Prof C H Ashton DM, FRCP, 2002

This one is not about Baclofen - but about Benzo withdrawal. I am not taking any Benzos, but I find the information useful as Benzo targets also the GABA receptor - although GABA-A ... and Baclofen GABA-B

For withdrawal purposes switch to a long acting benzo namely Valium - half life of 8.3 days.
Tolerance to the anxiolytic effects develops more slowly but there is little evidence that benzodiazepines retain their effectiveness after a few months.
Many patients find that anxiety symptoms gradually increase over the years despite continuous benzodiazepine use, and panic attacks and agoraphobia may appear for the first time after years of chronic use.
Such worsening of symptoms during long-term benzodiazepine use is probably due to the development of tolerance to the anxiolytic effects, so that "withdrawal" symptoms emerge even in the continued presence of the drugs.
Among the first 50 patients attending my clinic, 10 patients became agoraphobic for the first time while taking benzodiazepines.

Slow withdrawal means tapering dosage gradually, usually over a period of some months. The aim is to obtain a smooth, steady and slow decline in blood and tissue concentrations of benzodiazepines so that the natural systems in the brain can recover their normal state.
long-term benzodiazepines take over many of the functions of the body's natural tranquilliser system, mediated by the neurotransmitter GABA. As a result, GABA receptors in the brain reduce in numbers and GABA function decreases.
Sudden withdrawal from benzodiazepines leaves the brain in a state of GABA-underactivity, resulting in hyperexcitability of the nervous system. This hyperexcitability is the root cause of most of the withdrawal symptoms discussed in the next chapter. However, a sufficiently slow, and smooth, departure of benzodiazepines from the body permits the natural systems to regain control of the functions which have been damped down by their presence. There is scientific evidence that reinstatement of brain function takes a long time. Recovery after long-term benzodiazepine use is not unlike the gradual recuperation of the body after a major surgical operation. Healing, of body or mind, is a slow process.

[Guest]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

OMG what am I thinking?

Once again I am so grateful for all of the people who continue to put detailed information up about their experience with Baclofen. I am scared witless by the process and still can't believe I'm taking a pill from some island country no-one's ever heard of in the hopes that it's a silver bullet. Are you kidding me? and relying on the kindness of anonymous strangers to reassure me that my husband isn't going to find me dead from this stuff--or worse that I'm going to have my arms go leaden while I'm driving small kids around.
This is real, right?
I also have this gnawing fear that I'm risking my life/limbs and central nervous system (!) because I'm lazy, haven't done the work, explored the pain, lived in the moment, meditated enough... blah, blah, blah. I'm thoroughly indoctrinated into the whole addiction-therapy process and can't help but wonder, have I done enough???
And yet, I've changed my life dramatically over the last year and a half. Lazy? I don't think so! Half-assed? Not me. And for God's sake I've been in therapy on and off since I was 14, shortly after I started drinking, I might add. And AA, well, don't get me started. (Though, I agree with Ameisen that there is a lot to be gleaned from a spiritual growth program. Still, I've been in a room wondering if I was going to be that freakin' miserable when I finally get sober.)
So, thank you all. I have hope that this is real. (Right?)
And I've got to know, what does one do when one's limbs don't work? Am I going to end up in a suicidal puddle as described on bac4alcoholism website? Am I destroying the brain cells I've got left? I know I'm being dramatic, but I'm a girl who doesn't take more than the occasional ibuprofen because I want my liver to outlive me and I'm already making it hard for that to happen. We are all guinea pigs in this, and in my darkest moments I wonder if people on this site are real. (Not literally, I haven't lost my marbles yet. Speaking of which, psychosis and being generally unattached to reality for a moment sounds absolutely, completely terrifying. What does one do if that happens?)
It makes me so sad and a little mad that my loved ones (and yours!) would be completely devastated to find that in our desperation for a way out we've come to this. (Drama, I know, but it's true.)
thanks for any insight and for continuing reassurance...It works, right?
k

[Cinders]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

research,

I know it has worked for others on here. Like you, I sometimes get scared, especially when I have really bad SEs from Baclofen.

But then, I take a deep breath, step back, reassess, adjust my dosage until the really bad SEs subside, and start upwards again.

I am determined to see this through, even though it can be rough.

However, I always remind myself that the SEs from alcohol are just as bad, if not worse.

btw, hubby knows what I am doing. He is very much behind me on this.

Cindi

[tiptronic_ct]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Research: it's for real, and it remains for real.

I started on bac in June last year, reached my switch in August and have now been AF for 10 months.

Yes, its a scary process: the "dodgy" online ordering, knowing that what I'm doing is technically illegal in my country etc. etc. etc.

Worth it? Hell, yes!

[craving]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

its damn real and worth it. 155 continuous AF days account for that.

Baclofen is a great medicine, but any medicine has its limits and its bad sides. If you would look deeper into Aspirin you will find a lot of unpleasant things, and if it was not already approved for OTC it would not reach that state again!

The information I provide here are things that happened to me. It does not mean that the same things will happen to another person.

Even after the problems I had, Baclofen has saved my life, and without Baclofen I would die from alcohol ... so whatever SE I might have had, they are worth it, and I am not considering going off Baclofen.

In the end I freed myself off Pseudoephedrine, that I was almost constantly taking for my stuffed nose, and Bupropion, that I actually did not needed anymore - as I have no depressions. So in the end all turned out a lot better than I could ever have imagined.

Now just on Baclofen - hardly taking any pain killers. Who would have imagined that a medicine can deal with alcohol and give me a push into the right direction removing the other sh%# I was taking too!!

[Sunnyvalenting]

craving Bac start 08. Jan 2010

I am fortunate that I have a prescription and a doctor willing to work with me on the baclofen. I think I would really be in the same scary place you are if I had to buy the pills through the internet. That said and assuming you are getting "real" baclofen (most are legit and often made by the same mfg as we get on Rx), I think you need to respect but not fear the drug. Alcohol was making me very sick and I believe I might have been dead by now were it not for the bac. I have been abstinent for over 5 months. The effect on my cravings was immediate. So were anticipated and tolerable side effects. I became so drowsy about 2 hours after 20 mg that I had to take 10 mg every 3 hours for a few weeks to wean up to 60-80 mg which remains my baseline. I also avoided driving at the "peak" of dose. I take an extra 20 if I am thinking about alcohol much at all. It is working for me and the profound somnolence has abated. I have been advised that should I wish to stop it I should taper down slowly as well. I understand Ameisen still takes a small amount each day.
I am personally aware of 4 others who are doing very well on from 30-120 mg/day. We all were trying very hard to quit and 4 of us had tried AA, various rehabs, etc. I have never seen such a change in so many people who formerly were living in the addiction of alcohol.
BTW the bac is generally not cleared in the liver, but I agree being on as few meds as is necessary to get it done. This gets it done, big time, IMO.
I agree that AA has a sort of "blame the victim" song they sing. I was told, based on their literature, that I wasn't working the program or that I was incapable of honesty, that I was "born that way". That didn't feel like what I was. I find now that they were wrong. The reason I relapsed time after time was cravings and cravings are both the disease and the symptom. By treating the cravings I am cured of the disease. The others I know of were trying very hard too. Thank god for dr A and his willingness to take responsibility for getting the word out to at least some of us.
Good luck and keep posting.
Sunny