My Baclofen Dilemma

[Virgil]

Hi Folks,

I have long been aware that I may find myself facing a dilemma with baclofen. I'll try to explain...

It was my anxiety disorders (OCD* and GAD*) that caused me to start drinking excessively more years ago than I care to remember. At the outset of my taking baclofen, I had hoped that it would reduce my anxiety as it clearly did with Dr Ameisen and others on the MWO forums. I'm currently on 140mg baclofen per day but the anxiety has shown no sign of reducing. In fact, I previously reached this same dosage many weeks ago and thought the baclofen may be making the anxiety worse. I now think that wasn't the case. However, as a result, I slowly reduced my daily dosage to 80mg but the anxiety remained much the same. So, I'm now once again slowly increasing my baclofen dosage and, at the same time, monitoring for any side-effects.

That's the background. Sorry if it's a bit long-winded. Now, the dilemma. As baclofen is having no impact on my anxiety, I may eventually experience the 'switch' and not want to drink. But, I still feel the need for alcohol as a form of self-medication against the crippling anxiety that affects me every day. Although I occasionally resort to diazepam, it is nowhere near as effective as a glass of wine. I am continuing with therapy but it's a slow process. None of the other psychiatric medicines (e.g. TCAs, SSRIs) have proven effective.

I debated several times about starting this thread. My hope is that it doesn't come across as self-indulgent. I'm sure that there must be others who may find or found themselves in the same situation. If so, how do you (or did you) deal with it/plan to deal with it? Am I missing a trick?

V.

*OCD and GAD are obsessive-compulsive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder, respectively.

[gratitude]

My Baclofen Dilemma

hey virgil,
i don't think your post is self indulgent at all. very informative for those of us that suffer from anxiety.
i have been sober for 3 years as of the 11th of this month. i too drank because of anxiety. the paradox is that after a number of years the anxiety got worse as the alcohol consumption increased. i got to the point where nothing worked including getting drunk 24-7. in my case, the anxiety eventually went away after about 6 months of sobriety. i think it was the combination of sobriety, lots and lots of exercise, and a program called holosync. you can look up holosync on the web. it's basically introducing different audio frequencies to each ear which your brain balances out to the alpha frequency. there have been studies that show that alcoholics are defecient in this freq. also, studies that show that alcoholics have stayed sober longer when on this regimen. interestingly, i was doing a web search on baclofen and gaba and some of the info stated that bac increased the alpha range frequencies. the brain is electro-chemical so this makes since to me. anyway, long winded but i do believe you will have less anxiety just with being sober so habg in there with the bac. gratitude

[gratitude]

My Baclofen Dilemma

i should have stated that the anxiety abated not went away completely. it is managable now except for infrequent periods of a couple days every 3 or 4 months. thanks.gratitude

[SoFlo1]

My Baclofen Dilemma

I'm just starting out, but I found that higher doses of Bac (>100mg) definitely increased my tension level and sleeplessness, even induced some jaw clenching. By slowly going down to just 40mg (10-10-20) I was able to get to a place where my GAD was in check and I could cut back on Lexapro and it still kept the cravings at bay. I know there are lots of folks that only find relief at higher doses, including Dr. A himself, but the 70% abstinence rate came from a double blind study that used only 30mg a day...
I also started taking DMAE and PC (choline precusor) and a better B-heavy multi-vitamin, so my experience wasn't a controlled study or anything. I just wonder sometimes if our individual brain chemistry isn't so different that Bac dosages need not always be mega to work.

[craving]

My Baclofen Dilemma

V great to hear from you!

What other medicaments are you taking together with Baclofen? I think the past the other medicaments have seriously interfered with the Baclofen results!!

[Cinders]

My Baclofen Dilemma

Virgil,

What a great and completely non-selfindulgent thread to start.

What a scary thought you are dealing with. I had the same reaction to Antabuse. It kept me from drinking (I hate pain) but it did nothing for my other issues. i.e. anxiety and what hubby and shrink may be a bit of bipolar. In my case, I ended up drinking on the Antabuse and had to quit taking it. I knew I would end up killing myself.

I am choosing to continue on the Bac road to hit my switch. I have faith, that often wobbles, that I will hit that switch. Now when I get closer and closer to my 3.6/3.8 mgs/kgs and I still haven't hit it, I will start to get really nervous. (What if I am one of the ones...)

But I can't think about that. I am going to do this. One of my dear friends on MWO called me last week. She said, "We are going to do this." She is right. I cannot let myself be detered by fear and angst. I just can't.

I do know that anxiety is greatly reduced when I hit my longer sober stretches, so that may be of some comfort to you. I am not sure about OCD, I don't suffer from it. (At least I hope I don't. We'll figure out what all I truly suffer from when I can manage to get sober for 6 or more months.)

For now, my eye is on the very first prize of many I choose to gather along the way the rest of my life. Get sober first and then start addressing the other areas.

I am not one to push people to do something they are uncomfortable with but I do want you to consider that if you were to quit now and not titrate up high enough to see if you can find the switch, you will always regret that decision.

I am not sure how you feel about getting and staying sober but I am acutely aware that I only have so many sobers left in me. My other option is death or serious damage to my mental faculties. I hate the other option.

Love,
Cindi

[beatle]

My Baclofen Dilemma

Virgil;881235 wrote: Hi Folks,

I have long been aware that I may find myself facing a dilemma with baclofen. I'll try to explain...

It was my anxiety disorders (OCD* and GAD*) that caused me to start drinking excessively more years ago than I care to remember. At the outset of my taking baclofen, I had hoped that it would reduce my anxiety as it clearly did with Dr Ameisen and others on the MWO forums. I'm currently on 140mg baclofen per day but the anxiety has shown no sign of reducing. In fact, I previously reached this same dosage many weeks ago and thought the baclofen may be making the anxiety worse. I now think that wasn't the case. However, as a result, I slowly reduced my daily dosage to 80mg but the anxiety remained much the same. So, I'm now once again slowly increasing my baclofen dosage and, at the same time, monitoring for any side-effects.

That's the background. Sorry if it's a bit long-winded. Now, the dilemma. As baclofen is having no impact on my anxiety, I may eventually experience the 'switch' and not want to drink. But, I still feel the need for alcohol as a form of self-medication against the crippling anxiety that affects me every day. Although I occasionally resort to diazepam, it is nowhere near as effective as a glass of wine. I am continuing with therapy but it's a slow process. None of the other psychiatric medicines (e.g. TCAs, SSRIs) have proven effective.

I debated several times about starting this thread. My hope is that it doesn't come across as self-indulgent. I'm sure that there must be others who may find or found themselves in the same situation. If so, how do you (or did you) deal with it/plan to deal with it? Am I missing a trick?

V.

*OCD and GAD are obsessive-compulsive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder, respectively.

Everything you say in this post could have come directly from me.

How to start?

I have the same anxieties as you, and these led me to start drinking. Alcohol worked the best (and still does) to calm severe anxiety attacks. It also works the best for all anxiety, except I can't stop drinking once I start.

Psychiatric medicines have had near fatal effects for me (and the opposite of relief from depression). (I think I've explained this all in a PM to you, Virgil)

When I first started bac, at just 10mg/day, my anxieties were tremendously relieved. It was like a miracle.

As I titrated up, the anxieties returned, sometimes worse than pre-bac.

But here's my strategy: get rid of alcohol and deal with everything else after. Who knows what comes first-- anxiety, alcohol? All I know is alcohol has ruined my life and when I get rid of it, I can deal with the rest. I have one focus right now.

Oh yes, I'm still working on the other stuff (therapy, nutrition, spiritual healing, etc.)-- but I have my priorities. My priority.

Without alcohol, let them throw me what they will.

[SoFlo1]

My Baclofen Dilemma

beatle;881647 wrote: Without alcohol, let them throw me what they will.

Nicely put! At only three weeks, I'm still untangling the alcohol/anxiety feedback loop, but things sure do seem to be getting better each day I don't drink.

[Virgil]

My Baclofen Dilemma

gratitude;881339 wrote: i too drank because of anxiety. the paradox is that after a number of years the anxiety got worse as the alcohol consumption increased.Hi gratitude,

I am aware that increasing alcohol consumption over the years may have resulted in increased anxiety. However, I'm pleased that you reminded me of this - thank you.

gratitude;881339 wrote: i think it was the combination of sobriety, lots and lots of exercise, and a program called holosync.

Holosync is very familiar to me. I use some software called SHARM with which it is possible to create binaural beats.

Thanks again.

V.

[Virgil]

My Baclofen Dilemma

craving;881498 wrote: What other medicaments are you taking together with Baclofen? I think the past the other medicaments have seriously interfered with the Baclofen results!!

Hi craving,

Thanks for the feedback.

I take several (non-psychiatric) medications. However, for the last two months, I have been taking amitriptyline from which I am now slowly withdrawing because of side-effects. On top of that, the amitriptyline has not reduced my anxiety, which is why it was first prescribed. I was advised that there may be some interaction between amitriptyline and baclofen. Other than that, as stated above, I occasionally take diazepam but it's infrequent.

So, in a nutshell, I do not believe that any of my medications have adversely affected the efficacy of baclofen since starting on the latter early December last year.

V.

[Virgil]

My Baclofen Dilemma

Cinders;881529 wrote: I am not one to push people to do something they are uncomfortable with but I do want you to consider that if you were to quit now and not titrate up high enough to see if you can find the switch, you will always regret that decision.

Hi Cindi,

Thanks for your comments.

I am very much aware of the point you have made above. Any unmanageable side-effects will be the decider. But that's why I'm ramping up my baclofen dosage very slowly and, at present, things aren't too bad. I've got my fingers (and toes) crossed!

V.

[Virgil]

My Baclofen Dilemma

beatle;881647 wrote: Psychiatric medicines have had near fatal effects for me (and the opposite of relief from depression). (I think I've explained this all in a PM to you, Virgil)Hi beatle,

Many thanks for your comments.

Yes, I do believe you sent me a PM about the above.

beatle;881647 wrote: When I first started bac, at just 10mg/day, my anxieties were tremendously relieved. It was like a miracle.

As I titrated up, the anxieties returned, sometimes worse than pre-bac.

That's very interesting. As I stated in the first post of this thread, I had a hunch that my anxiety was getting worse as my baclofen dosage increased but, in my case, I now no longer think that was so.

beatle;881647 wrote: But here's my strategy: get rid of alcohol and deal with everything else after. Who knows what comes first-- anxiety, alcohol? All I know is alcohol has ruined my life and when I get rid of it, I can deal with the rest. I have one focus right now.

In my case, I can categorically say that OCD came well before I'd even taken my first sip of alcohol. I first became aware of my OCD at the age of 15 but I didn't know it had a name. I was officially diagnosed as having OCD when I was 22 years of age. For me, the OCD is definitely the result of a traumatic childhood.

Thanks again.

V.

[Virgil]

My Baclofen Dilemma

SoFlo1,

Thanks for your feedback.

V.

[individualnz]

My Baclofen Dilemma

Im sorry to hear the Bac is not working yet, as you hoped it would, there really is no one answer, other than to hang in there, keep going up with the Bac if and when you think you can tolerate it, slowly but surely, untill you feel changes within your thought patterns and cravings. Anxiety is a killer, but alcohol is too, and surely exacerbates that symptom. If you can become AL free you may then be able to explore ways and means of dealing with the OCD anxiety with a clearer head???? Just some thoughts really.

Dont give up,:goodjob:

[Virgil]

My Baclofen Dilemma

individualnz;882111 wrote: Im sorry to hear the Bac is not working yet, as you hoped it would, there really is no one answer, other than to hang in there, keep going up with the Bac if and when you think you can tolerate it, slowly but surely, untill you feel changes within your thought patterns and cravings. Anxiety is a killer, but alcohol is too, and surely exacerbates that symptom. If you can become AL free you may then be able to explore ways and means of dealing with the OCD anxiety with a clearer head???? Just some thoughts really.

Dont give up,:goodjob:

Hi individualnz,

Thanks for your kind words.

To be honest, I wouldn't expect baclofen to be effective against alcohol at this dosage as I'm only at 1.5mg/kg of body weight. However, as explained in the first post of this thread, I had hoped that it may have helped with the anxiety. But, I'll soldier on.

V.