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    Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

    Hi folks,

    It's been many months since I've been here. Nothing negative to report in regards to this community, I had just found myself adjusting to life without alcohol. Though Baclofen freed me from the daily cravings and preoccupative thoughts to drink, I found myself yet anxious and very depressed. I also succumbed to very low levels of energy and motivation, as well as interest in those things which once inspired me.

    I'm one of a few administrators of another discussion forum of completely different subject matter, and have all but stepped down in regards to my attendence there. During the months that followed my descent from total alcohol addiction, I felt reborn. But anxiety and depression remained despite this appreciated liberation.

    I had been meaning to post my story upon my registration here, but just never got around to it. But for what it's worth (in short form), I originally purchased Baclofen online without a prescription, and followed Dr. Ameisen's method as outlined in his book. The outcome was all I had hoped for in a simple and safe, generic medication.

    But twice I found that online pharmaceutical sources are not reliable for sustaining an ongoing, maintenance medication such as Baclofen. Shipments wouldn't arrive in time (if at all), and stress and panic would overtake me until drink would once again prevail. Anyway, I finally obtained a legal prescription for Baclofen, but here's my issue...

    As anxiety (primary) and depression (secondary) were still very legitimate issues for me, I pleaded with my pyschiatrist to prescribe Buspar as I had done extensive research on the side effects associated with SSRI's. I have pre-existing digestive issues and cannot tolerate further complications due to medications. He finally gave in to my wishes.

    The Buspar in conjunction with the Baclofen did wonders for my anxiety. The only drawback was that it made me drowsy. So instead of taking it twice a day, I broke them in half and took them four times a day. Problem solved.

    But another issue was that I also learned that I had essential tremor. My head would shake uncontrolably, and I thought it would go away once I had sobered up, as I contributed it to alcohol withdrawal syndrome. However, it persisted afterwards. So I'm also taking Propranolol (a beta blocker) to assist in easing these symptoms.

    Now here's the kicker... though I seemed to be doing pretty good as I was, I was still really depressed despite the meds I was already taking. So then I started taking Celexa (Citalopram). The upside is that I nolonger feel depressed... most negative thoughts are removed. However, now I'm craving alcohol again... big time!

    It's almost as though this extra added medication is interfering with what Baclofen works to correct (the GABA B receptor). I've voiced my concerns with both my therapist and my prescribing psychiatrist, but neither seemed concerned. Something else I should add is that when filling my script for Baclofen some time back, I was refused 10 mg pills in place of 20 mg. pills. I preferred 10 mg. pills so I didn't have to cut them.

    So the following time, I specifically requested 10 mg pills. I was waited on by a new person while the one who had preceded her the time before looked on. When the new person agreed to the 10 mg pills, I noticed that the previous pharmacist (who had told me that my prescription had changed to 20 mg pills as opposed to 10) stared at this one with condemnation. At that time, I just thought they were reserving the 10 mg pills for those with other needs. But it was easier for me to ration by 10 mg.

    Ok, so here's my dilemma... it seems like once I added Celexa to the cocktail, Baclofen is nolonger working for me. I'm experiencing preoccupations and cravings every day. And shamefully, I'll admit that I'm drinking every day because of it. I just don't understand this! All I can think of is that either the brew of medications I'm taking is somehow interferring with Baclofen efficacy, or the pharmaceutical companies are catching on to the widespread miracle of this generic medication. What do the rest of you think?

    Sincerely,
    John

    #2
    Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

    What was your bac dosage when you quit drinking and what is your current dosage?
    "Wherever you are is the entry point." --Kabir

    Comment


      #3
      Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

      Raise your dose, see what happens.
      :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
      :what?:
      sigpic
      Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

      Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




      Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
      A Forum
      Trolls need not apply

      Comment


        #4
        Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

        JWHIII;886253 wrote: All I can think of is that either the brew of medications I'm taking is somehow interferring with Baclofen efficacy, or the pharmaceutical companies are catching on to the widespread miracle of this generic medication. What do the rest of you think?
        Hi Will,

        I suffer from major depression for which I took Wellbutrin, and self-medicate with alcohol. I long ago stopped the Wellbutrin, fortunately it worked to pop me out of a suicidal spiral, but I continue to struggle with depression and alcoholism.

        I am curious about your statement "or the pharmaceutical companies are catching on to the widespread miracle of this generic medication." Do you really, honestly, feel that the pharmaceutical companies have somehow added something to their drugs to counteract Baclofen? I ask this because Celexa has been around for quite sometime (long before Baclofen's efficacy in treating alcoholism was considered,) and if you feel like your doctors are prescribing you drugs specifically to negate the effect of Baclofen, I would encourage you to speak with your psychiatrist or another non-involved psychologist or neurologist about paranoia. I don't mean to be flippant, but you've described a series of psychiatric conditions which could be a result of problems with overlapping medication, and paranoia is a serious symptom.

        -Moglor

        Comment


          #5
          Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

          Hi,

          My maintenance dose of Baclofen has always been sufficient at 120 mg. But then, this has always been the case until I added Citalopram to my daily itinerary. Strange, I know. I've thought to contact Dr. Ameisen about this, but I don't want to bother him again. I'm sure he gets more e-mails than what he's able to handle as it is. I just wasn't sure if anyone else had an idea about this?

          Brain chemistry is a complexed thing, so I guess it's hard to say. But all I know is that I was doing great until I started taking Citalopram for depression. The reason why my doctors were so hard pressed against Buspar is that they had determined a "duel diganosis" in my case. So in other words, they didn't want to treat one symptom without treating the other (even though I emphasized that anxiety was a much bigger issue for me than depression).

          My peak dosage with Baclofen has consistently been no greater than 190 mg. I've always found complete suppression of preoccupation and craving for alcohol with my maintenance dose of 120 mg. until I started taking Citalopram for depression. But thereafter, I've found a complete reversal of the effectivness of Baclofen to free me from these annoying and debilitating cravings.

          That's why the "conspiracy theroist" within is forced to emerge. Once I start adding things up, I can't help but to wonder if there isn't something else going on here. My point being, that certain manufacturers of Baclofen are forced to produce a lower mg. pill in place of that identified for the cause of diminishing Baclofen's effectiveness while promoting other meds out there. LOL, I dunno. But I can't help but to find it very curious when it's all said and done.

          I've been thinking to simply drop the Citalopram to see what happens... if my overall state returns to how it was (no cravings or preoccupation). I wouldn't have a problem with increasing my dosage of Baclofen except for that all was fine and well until I added this additional med.

          I think I might taper off the Citalopram and see where that gets me. Thanks for the replies!

          ~John

          Comment


            #6
            Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

            With regards the 10 vs 20 mg tablets I believe the 20 mg are more expensive per mg than the 10s for some reason. I get the 10 mgs without any trouble. I get 240/month for $27. You may want to shop pharmacys. I don't know about those other matters. I think we are each a case study of one here. Your experience with your best judgment and competent medical help are your best options. If you have been on the citalopram for awhile you would best taper it over a few weeks to avoid SSRI withdrawal! So many things to consider! Good luck
            Sunny

            Comment


              #7
              Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

              I have read at several places that anti depressives can alter the function of Baclofen.
              Try changing AD !

              I can remember reading Citalopram several times together with Baclofen that it can alter its effectiveness.

              Please keep us updated what worked!!
              since 23. Apr 2009 : TSM - failed to reduce units
              since 08. Jan 2010 : Naltrexone + Baclofen combination therapy
              reborn since 16. Jan 2010 : Alcohol Free (AF) - only taking Baclofen
              since 22. May 2010 : Baclofen against anxiety/fear
              since 14. Mar 2011 : off Baclofen - taking 25mg Topamax/day

              My stats :
              http://www.baclofen-forum.com/stats/craving/

              Comment


                #8
                Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

                I had tried several other meds for AD, but never for more than a couple of days due to the side effects associated with my digestive system (D or C). I was pleased with Buspirone and Citalopram as they didn't appear to cause these reactions. But I'd rather be depressed than drinking.

                The first two times I underwent Baclofen treatment, it removed my anxiety also. But relying on a internet pharmaceutical source had proven to be an unreliable method by which to obtain it. Thinking I'd never find a doctor willing to prescribe Baclofen to me, I gave up on the idea and was back to daily drinking within a day or two. This lasted a few months until things were worse than before.

                By the time I sought assistance from a psychiatrist who specialized in addiction medicine, I had developed essential tremor. Though less exagerated, it didn't cease completely after I successfully quit drinking during a third time through Baclofen treatment. This time around, Baclofen didn't seem to help much with anxiety. Anxiety would trigger the involuntary movement of my head in social situations. This led to a script for Propranolol for the essential tremor, and Buspar for anxiety.

                I had to taper up with both of these meds, as they cause drowsiness. Even after reaching my full dose of Buspar, I started taking halves four times a day as opposed to wholes twice a day due to drowsiness. That did the trick. But I was still battling depression and negative thoughts. So I agreed to a low dose of Citalopram as it's supposedly the mildest of the SSRI's

                But though I noticed a very pleasant change overall, the thoughts, cravings, and preoccupation for alcohol returned as well. It was about this time that I had switched from 20 mg pills to 10. That's the only reason why I was somewhat suspicious of the pharmaceutical source. But I was taking 10 mg pills long before the brief switch to 20 mg. So that surely isn't the cause.

                So it has to be the Citalopram interferring with Baclofen's ability to do it's thing with the GABA B receptor and neurotransmission overall. Problem is, I didn't taper up with Citalopram as they're only 10 mg pills. Plus, I only take it once a day. So I'm not sure how I would taper down the dosage other than to cut them in half and just take half doses for a while.

                Anyway, thanks for the additional replies. I'll keep you all posted with my findings.

                ~John

                Comment


                  #9
                  Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

                  This is interesting because I just recently raised the dosage of my anti depressant medication and amd thinking of picking up the bottle again which I have not even considered since starting baclofen until now...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

                    Hi there,

                    Sorry to hear about the trouble you are having with your medication, I have no idea whether Citalopram affects baclofen but it does indeed sound so in your case.
                    Have a look at Low dose Naltrexone for depression on google, LDN has had great results according to what I have read for many many conditions, and at a lose dose(2.5-5mg a day) I myself have been on Naltrexone now for for 5 months, 50 mg for drinking as in the sinclair method and it has had a most definite benefit on my mood. I have not had any real downers since taking it, and I have a long history of depression, including severe episodes which is what I partly blame on my alcoholism( self medicating) I have also been on around 12 different anti-depressants including Lithium. I am no longer on any anti depressant thankfully as I loathe the SE's.

                    You never know it may well have a positive effect on you and with the added bonus of maybe some effect on your drinking! As they only come in 50 mg tabs you would need to dissolve in some water and calculate how much of that water to drink a day.

                    Good luck whatever you decide.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

                      As sunny said, we are each a case study of ourselves. We have to listen to our bodies, remember we are unique, each of us, while gathering as much information as we can -- especially information from people with experiences from similar situations, which is what you are doing, JWH.
                      Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

                      Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

                        SSRIs and anxiety

                        JWHIII;886253 wrote:
                        As anxiety (primary) and depression (secondary) were still very legitimate issues for me, I pleaded with my pyschiatrist to prescribe Buspar as I had done extensive research on the side effects associated with SSRI's.
                        I, too, have anxiety as my primary issue, with depression as the secondary problem. I do not think they are unrelated.

                        After many rounds of as many as six different SSRIs (I was told that Zoloft was the mildest, btw), I found that the SEs were so extreme as to lead me to near suicide several times.

                        This led me to turn off on all medications, and seek a cure in therapy and holistic healing.

                        I pursued this road for almost 3 years, 3 years of total self destruction, punctuated by occasional bouts of sobriety, but only accomplished with tremendous, superhuman effort.

                        I finally agreed, at the urging of my therapist, to see a new psychiatrist.

                        She told me SSRIs are not appropriate for people with anxiety issues.

                        That's when I decided tp look into the meds forum again.
                        Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

                        Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

                          Buspiron and Citalopram are both used mainly for anxiety I think. Although Citalopram is an anti-depressive it would be mainly used to threat certain forms of anxiety.

                          My guess is that usual medicine that would help against anxiety voids the effect of Baclofen.
                          since 23. Apr 2009 : TSM - failed to reduce units
                          since 08. Jan 2010 : Naltrexone + Baclofen combination therapy
                          reborn since 16. Jan 2010 : Alcohol Free (AF) - only taking Baclofen
                          since 22. May 2010 : Baclofen against anxiety/fear
                          since 14. Mar 2011 : off Baclofen - taking 25mg Topamax/day

                          My stats :
                          http://www.baclofen-forum.com/stats/craving/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

                            JWHIII;886346 wrote: I've thought to contact Dr. Ameisen about this, but I don't want to bother him again. I'm sure he gets more e-mails than what he's able to handle as it is. I just wasn't sure if anyone else had an idea about this?
                            Hi John,

                            Good to hear from you but I'm sorry to learn that you seem to be experiencing a medication interaction.

                            Just a thought in response to your comment above. Have you taken a look at:

                            baclofen4alcoholism.com and:

                            baclofen4alcoholism.com

                            Take care!

                            V.
                            "Love's the only engine of survival"

                            Leonard Cohen

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Baclofen Efficacy Reversal

                              Virgil;887346 wrote:
                              baclofen4alcoholism.com and:
                              Thanks Virgil.

                              I did not know that Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) as Ibuprofen reduce excretion of Baclofen!!
                              since 23. Apr 2009 : TSM - failed to reduce units
                              since 08. Jan 2010 : Naltrexone + Baclofen combination therapy
                              reborn since 16. Jan 2010 : Alcohol Free (AF) - only taking Baclofen
                              since 22. May 2010 : Baclofen against anxiety/fear
                              since 14. Mar 2011 : off Baclofen - taking 25mg Topamax/day

                              My stats :
                              http://www.baclofen-forum.com/stats/craving/

                              Comment

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