Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

[tm1210]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

neva eva;931312 wrote: I don't think so. Without a full catalogue of my experiences, I've tried several other mind-altering substances. Hated them for the most part. Cocaine ruins a good (alcohol) buzz. Tried it enough to figure out it was VERY expensive to get drunk when on it. Seriously pissed me off.
AL is my first, foremost and favorite love. And in the brief times I've been sober, I've not been drawn to anything else.
eva

Cokes an evil drug, its partly ruined the last 10 years of my life. Been doing it for 10 years and MDMA for 10 before that and have only ever done them once or twice (no kidding) sober. Same with most drugs and I've done ALOT. I used to smoke cannabis alot but stopped because of paranoia and anxiety. I've always been into drugs in one form or another for as long as I can remember but its the booze that opens the door for all the rest. All common sense just goes out the window.

I really do think Bac might be for me and am looking forward to trying it.

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Hello tm
I hope that you do try Baclofen.
MWO will (as you know) provide a massive amount of support.
Please also use my site www.balcofen4alcoholism.com and join in the forum there.
We all need all the help we can get.
Phill

[startingover]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Oh hello Dr Phil
Back again?

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

startingover;931806 wrote: Oh hello Dr Phil
Back again?

By popular demand actually.
Why, do you have a problem with that?

[startingover]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

B4A;931810 wrote: By popular demand actually.
Why, do you have a problem with that?

Still aggressive I see

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

startingover;931823 wrote: Still aggressive I see

Not at all.
That's why I've been asked repeatedly to join in with MWO.
I haven't an aggressive bone in my body. Read the messages in this thread.
Why did you feel the compulsion to say that?
I don't understand.

[IAD]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Startingover our "Grand dam of MWO" I fiquired if your here.....I'll drop my two cents worth too......I'm only about 10,000 post behind you ! Ha!
B4A.....Are you self Promoting anything !?! We are at MWO because we want to help each other and are looking for support from our friends here. Just want to know. ( I see you have your own Web site....red flag goes up.) IAD

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

IAD;931827 wrote: Startingover our "Grand dam of MWO" I fiquired if your here.....I'll drop my two cents worth too......I'm only about 10,000 post behind you ! Ha!
B4A.....Are you self Promoting anything !?! We are at MWO because we want to help each other and are looking for support from our friends here. Just want to know. ( I see you have your own Web site....red flag goes up.) IAD

I've had that web site for well over a year.
I set it up because I was self-prescribing Baclofen and got lots of horrible side effects.
So, I did my very best to collate as much information as I could.
I tried to make a site that I wish that I had had access to before I started Baclofen.
And for fifteen months, I have had hundreds of people e-mail me personally. And I always reply.
I have never charged a penny.
Thousands of hours, and I'm glad.
I know that I have helped so many people get through their Baclofen journey.
For months, regular visitors to MWO have asked me to join in here.
I decided to do it by asking you all what Baclofen was doing for you.
Good, bad, indifferent.
That's all.
Phill

[IAD]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Just checking B.......we have had some people come aboard who's intentions were to promote their meds. Their meds. happened to be fakes and ilegal at best, dangerous fakes that were lethal at worst. We are very cautious here......That's all IAD

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

I understand, IAD. I've been there before with MWO.
How are you doing?
Phill

[tiptronic_ct]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Phill,

I've tried very hard to resist the temptation to respond to your posts, but in the end the bac didn't help - not even a 30mg p.r.n. dose.

If you say you're here simply to participate on these boards (which you're naturally very welcome to do), why do you deem it necessary to repeatedly post links to your website and invite them to participate on a discussion forum you set up.

Yes, maybe I need to find a new hobby :H, but you posted links to your site no less than 7 times in your 16 posts as B4A.

As I said, I was just wondering...

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

tiptronic_ct;931862 wrote: Phill,

I've tried very hard to resist the temptation to respond to your posts, but in the end the bac didn't help - not even a 30mg p.r.n. dose.

If you say you're here simply to participate on these boards (which you're naturally very welcome to do), why do you deem it necessary to repeatedly post links to your website and invite them to participate on a discussion forum you set up.

Yes, maybe I need to find a new hobby :H, but you posted links to your site no less than 7 times in your 16 posts as B4A.

As I said, I was just wondering...

Hi again

I've not come back without some trepidation. I'm sure you believe that!!!!
Since we last crossed swords, I have just been keeping my web site alive.
So many people who visit my site and e-mail me personally have wondered why I don't contribute to MWO. Excepting enforced euthanasia, I can't give a good reason! Ha!!
We all have much to offer to each other.
There is absolutely no commercial gain here.
Otter has been promoting his site everywhere. And I applaud him for it. Nobody doubts his intentions.
Test me Tigger.
Send me an e-mail any time you like, anonymously. I bet I reply.
Phill

[IAD]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

I'm fine B....I do the Herbal route...that seems to work for me.

[Otter]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Self promotion and MWO

Hi all,

I think there is a problem here. I came to MWO because I have a wife who has a very serious alcohol problem. We exhausted what "help" there was through the local health service and with various on-line medications. It was an awful situation. I read about MWO in an article about Ameisen. I first went to TSM forums and then here. I have found this site amazing. I log on every day a couple of times. It has been an enormous help.

However, I found implementing anything on the site very difficult here in the UK. The culture is so different. It is extremely conservative. There is a huge suspicion about on-line drugs. We get free medical care but doctors are not pro-active in comparison to US doctors. It is still a class-ridden society where people don't question their doctors. So, generally, go to a doctor here about alcoholism and start talking about web sites and they politely show you the door. You only get a 15 minute appointment anyway.

I don't have any problem with what Phil has done. There is no public support for Baclofen here and it is hard work trying to get anyone to take you seriously when you talk about a cure for alcohol. You might as well tell someone you are Santa Claus.

So, what is left? Nothing.

Unless people like Phil set something up nothing is going to progress here. There is a huge alcohol problem in this country and the government is absolutely switched off to medical intervention. The National Institute for Clinical Excellence has published a report on alcohol treatment that dismisses Baclofen as likely to be ineffective. That is where we are!!

Despite the special relationship between the UK and US (haha) the cultures are very different and people here are very skeptical of a lot of things "American".

So, I applaud Phil for what he is doing. I have had people write to me saying how they have benefited from his advice.

Anyway, Mywayout is also a private commercial site. Everyone here is helping the owners to increase their profits selling L-Glutamine and books. At least Phil is true to his cause.

Also, it is getting more and more difficult to find information and not everyone can get around it with ease. It is time consuming trying to find information. That is why I set up my site. I thought I would put everything I found useful in one place for my benefit and anyone like me.

You say this is somewhere people come for help. Of course, that is great. It has helped me. But that is all it can ever be.

No one in the UK is going to get anything changed by referring to posts on this site. No politician or bureaucrat is going to take anything on it seriously. I don't like that but that is the way it is.

I intend to use my site to provide information to people who might be able to make some changes. I cannot do that with MWO. I have paid money out of my own pocket to do something about it and I don't expect anything back. As soon as the government here starts taking Baclofen seriously it will be prescribed free by our national health service and there will be a big government announcement about it. That means that Phil and I become redundant. So to say that he or I are self promoting for some financial purpose just doesn't stand up.

The thing about Ameisen's discovery is that it is a revolutionary change in the way people can look at alcoholism. It is like the discovery of penicillin. It is incredibly exciting. Why would anyone not want to take this further and get involved? Some people do things because they just want to help. Phil is a doctor. Most people get into that profession because they care about people. It is not unusual.

We all have our roles to play. Maybe MWO is not the place for people who have other reasons for getting involved in alcoholism. It is a great site for self help. It gives the best infomation on the subject and support you could not find anywhere else for any other illness. But where do people go who are not alcoholics? Why not have other sites for other purposes and for people who don't want to get involved in a therapeutic community but still want to learn about alcoholism? And sites like Phil's for people who don't feel comfortable here and want some individual attention from a medically trained person. I have no idea what anyone on this site does as a career and there is a lot of completely wrong information and lots of different views. I think that by taking information away from this site and making it easier to find, I may have helped someone make sense of Baclofen. It cannot hurt.
.
Finally, even if Phil or I have some financial motive, what is wrong with that? Look at all the clinics out there making thousands per patient giving treatments that don't work. If a new speciality in treating alcoholism with Baclofen grows out of this with people earning a living out of it, what is wrong with that? I think it is a good thing and Phil is a ground breaker. Ultimately, treatment for Baclofen should not be left to "amateurs" which we all are. At least Phil is a doctor, and a lawyer, and very switched on. The French Baclofen site sets out as one of its missions, to encourage medical care over self prescribing. Whatever the good intentions of everyone on MWO it is not right that lay people are advising on medical issues and that is not going to change, here, in the UK anytime soon unless someone does something about it.

MWO is a place for people to help each other and I think we should all support each other in what we are doing because we are all working for the same thing, an end to this nightmare called alcoholism.

[beatle]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Thank you, Otter. Together we stand.