Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

[hangingoninFL]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Ditto!

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Hi again
Thank you Otter et al.
I do seem to make some people prickle. I don't mean to, I promise.
Would you all be kind enough to tell me what you think about cravings.
Not a daft question.
Phill

[PortabelloRoad]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Hello
Might I just say that my son and me have sent Phill lots of emails recently, and he has always been so supportive to us. I lost my husband and turned to drink. It's been awful. I told my family. My son found Phill. He must have the patience of a saint if he gets lots of messages from the likes of us. M son is on to him every day, and he always comes back. Just so you know.
Mags

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Otter, bravo. I'm moved.
A couple of thoughts:
I can't compare our national systems, but will tell you that reluctance to step outside of the box in medicine in this country is rampant and understandable. Frustrating, wrong, makes it incredibly difficult to get help, but understandable. (Frivolous lawsuits, malpractice insurance costs, overwhelming demands...) I abhor our mental health system(which is where this disease falls,) and the people who make WAY too much money from the likes of you and me, but not most of the people who work in it.
As to personal gain: I get it. There is a lot of snake oil, and many more peddlers, who have no issue making money off of misery. But more power to those that do help. May they reap the rewards in this life that they've earned. I personally, owe them. (Including Dr. A, who doesn't need my pennies, but has earned them for sure!)
As to personal promotion: It's a big web and a big world. Info about this, or any treatment, should be rampant. Think about the fact that we're on a website, which sells stuff, but allows us to do this! And when it went down I thought I was going to crawl under the covers and stay there. I need to send them a thank-you.
It's up to each of us personally to suss out what is real/helpful/fact. That's not a sad truth. It's time-out-of-mind truth.
Together we can help each other find the truth and dispell the myths.
Finally, I contacted Dr. Phill a while ago. After seeing past posts on this site. He's been nothing but gracious. Even after an embarrassing drunken email when I just resented him and this process. Seriously, gracious. And quick to respond, and forth-coming.
As is Dr. Levin.
As has been everyone I've contacted through this site (including moderators.) Wish I could say the same for my doc.
Together we stand. I'm in.
Thanks all.
eva

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

cravings

The cravings are...
a nightmare, my pestilence, a daily burden, overwhelming, subtle, fragrant, painful. They gnaw at me.
So what's the question?
I maintenance drink, for the most part. Meaning mostly (?) don't binge, have this life and try to manage it, like every other person I know. But come 5pm, sometimes earlier, my mind and body are focused. Even if I'm busy and not thinking about drinking. I'm uncomfortable, miserable, irritable. Sometimes even so focused on the cessation of that gnawing I don't care what else is going on. On days when I'm not busy, I plan my day around AL, avoiding it or consuming it. And I hate it. I've got this life I'd like to live.
I think if I could curb my cravings...I could take the next right step. The only time it's ever happened for me was when I went to rehab for 30 days. I completely relate to Dr. Ameisen's reflection on that. Bottom line: Very helpful, not permanent.
eva

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

neva eva;932171 wrote: The cravings are...
a nightmare, my pestilence, a daily burden, overwhelming, subtle, fragrant, painful. They gnaw at me.
So what's the question?
I maintenance drink, for the most part. Meaning mostly (?) don't binge, have this life and try to manage it, like every other person I know. But come 5pm, sometimes earlier, my mind and body are focused. Even if I'm busy and not thinking about drinking. I'm uncomfortable, miserable, irritable. Sometimes even so focused on the cessation of that gnawing I don't care what else is going on. On days when I'm not busy, I plan my day around AL, avoiding it or consuming it. And I hate it. I've got this life I'd like to live.
I think if I could curb my cravings...I could take the next right step. The only time it's ever happened for me was when I went to rehab for 30 days. I completely relate to Dr. Ameisen's reflection on that. Bottom line: Very helpful, not permanent.
eva

Thank you. That has helped me a lot.
I wish all of us could be so brave.
Phill

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Umm. Twice in the last 24 hours I've been called brave. Does that mean I'm stepping out on some sort of ledge? 'cause if that's the case I need to reign it in. A lot. I'm not brave. This disease, or dis-ease, just sucks. I want out from under.

[Doggygirl]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Good post Otter. Maybe there is "history" here that I am unaware of - I don't always catch everything in the meds section. But it seems to me that helping each other is what it's all about. If someone is profiting by offering a valuable service (as opposed to ripping people off) then more power to them. IMO of course.

[rant]
The medical community in the US is not as adventurous as some might think. Especially treatments that do not represent Big Patented Bucks to the pharma companies - those are suppressed. It is my understanding that Bac is more of an old time drug? i.e. not under patent protection and therefore relatively inexpensive? Those are the kind of drugs that the medical "establishment" is not motivated or rewarded for prescribing. While I don't take Bac, I DO take natural dessicated thyroid medication for hypothyroid treatment. This medication has been around since the 1800's without dangerous side effects when used appropriately. But there is immense pressure on the part of the pharma companies via FDA, etc. to suppress it's use and promote Synthroid - a synthetic and for many people (those who do not effectively convert T4 to T3) a CRAP more "modern" alternative. My doctor won't even accept insurance any more because they hassle her about the treatments she is prescribing for people. (she thinks out of the box) Don't even get me started on natural, bioidentical hormone replacement which is possibly not even legal any more under the new health care legislation.

[/rant]

off :soapbox: now...and back on topic..

Let me ask you all a few questions that I think are really important.
The first is
If you lived in a country where alcohol was banned, would you have taken to something else? Probably. I started smoking cigarettes about the same time I started drinking (16 or 17) and certainly was addicted to nicotine as nearly everyone who smokes is. I had a very difficult time quitting (as most do). I tried cocaine later in my teen years and LOVED it. I am thankful that a batch cut with something nasty made me very sick before I got too far gone with that. I have avoided drugs of the prescription and street variety ever since - that scared me. I also seem to get "addicted" to ideas or things. I get on a mission and can't get off of it until...I somehow get off of it and it's on like that to something else. Balance and "take it easy" are difficult for me. FOOD and SUGAR is my current battle. Hand to mouth? Nutritional deficiencies despite supplementing like crazy? Sugar junkie? I don't know.

It's not a flippant question.
If you have taken to many other things, tell me why.

Don't know why, really.

I'm not sure if my comments are appropriate as a non-Bac-er. I'm sure you are mainly looking for this feedback from people who have been helped by Bac or considering Bac? Let me know if this is just "noise."

DG

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

neva eva;932192 wrote: Umm. Twice in the last 24 hours I've been called brave. Does that mean I'm stepping out on some sort of ledge? 'cause if that's the case I need to reign it in. A lot. I'm not brave. This disease, or dis-ease, just sucks. I want out from under.

Not at all.
You're brave because you are honest.
And that will always help you.

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Doggygirl;932197 wrote: Good post Otter. Maybe there is "history" here that I am unaware of - I don't always catch everything in the meds section. But it seems to me that helping each other is what it's all about. If someone is profiting by offering a valuable service (as opposed to ripping people off) then more power to them. IMO of course.

[rant]
The medical community in the US is not as adventurous as some might think. Especially treatments that do not represent Big Patented Bucks to the pharma companies - those are suppressed. It is my understanding that Bac is more of an old time drug? i.e. not under patent protection and therefore relatively inexpensive? Those are the kind of drugs that the medical "establishment" is not motivated or rewarded for prescribing. While I don't take Bac, I DO take natural dessicated thyroid medication for hypothyroid treatment. This medication has been around since the 1800's without dangerous side effects when used appropriately. But there is immense pressure on the part of the pharma companies via FDA, etc. to suppress it's use and promote Synthroid - a synthetic and for many people (those who do not effectively convert T4 to T3) a CRAP more "modern" alternative. My doctor won't even accept insurance any more because they hassle her about the treatments she is prescribing for people. (she thinks out of the box) Don't even get me started on natural, bioidentical hormone replacement which is possibly not even legal any more under the new health care legislation.

[/rant]

off :soapbox: now...and back on topic..

Probably. I started smoking cigarettes about the same time I started drinking (16 or 17) and certainly was addicted to nicotine as nearly everyone who smokes is. I had a very difficult time quitting (as most do). I tried cocaine later in my teen years and LOVED it. I am thankful that a batch cut with something nasty made me very sick before I got too far gone with that. I have avoided drugs of the prescription and street variety ever since - that scared me. I also seem to get "addicted" to ideas or things. I get on a mission and can't get off of it until...I somehow get off of it and it's on like that to something else. Balance and "take it easy" are difficult for me. FOOD and SUGAR is my current battle. Hand to mouth? Nutritional deficiencies despite supplementing like crazy? Sugar junkie? I don't know.
Don't know why, really.

I'm not sure if my comments are appropriate as a non-Bac-er. I'm sure you are mainly looking for this feedback from people who have been helped by Bac or considering Bac? Let me know if this is just "noise."

DG

None of anything to do with this is noise.
Just say what you think.
Otter has it so right. We live in a world of pan-addiction.
We are almost made to do it.
That is what I mean by our Toxic Environments.
Phill

[tiptronic_ct]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Otter;931969 wrote:
MWO is a place for people to help each other and I think we should all support each other in what we are doing because we are all working for the same thing, an end to this nightmare called alcoholism.

Otter,

Very, very well said, and I share your sentiments wholeheartedly. That is why I am still here, actively participating, almost a year after gaining my sobriety. Every time a MWO member wins the battle, I relive the feeling of liberation I felt when alcohol lost its grip and share in their joy at regaining their lives.

Every day, I feel frustrated when I see people struggling with all their might, but not making it yet.

I feel saddened when good people fall by the wayside and disappear from the boards.

It is precisely because I care deeply that I will ask questions when I feel it is necessary.

I wish you every success with your site. I agree that MWO has a certain role to play, and sites like yours a different one altogether.

[beatle]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Cravings -- New Thread?

This thread has taken many twists and turns, very interesting and thought-provoking, but it has strayed quite far from the original thread heading. Don't get me wrong, this is my favourite thread of the moment. However, for people who have not followed this thread, well, they might miss out on topics discussed here if they don't muddle through the whole thread.

So, instead of introducing new topics within the thread (if you think it's gone "dormant", you can just bump it without taking a new direction), I suggest when you introduce a new question, which will change the direction of discussion, you start a new thread... i.e. "Cravings". I think this will make it much more accessible and gain more attention.

Just a thought.

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

Charlatans beware.
If it wasn't pathetic, I'd give up.

[B4A]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

I've got absolutely no axe to grind here.
Just tell me straight about Baclofen.
I get about 100 e-mails a week. and I reply to them all.
I'm getting a pretty good feel about Baclofen for our community.
Just join in.
Phill

[mama bear]

Baclofen - The Holy Grail or the Emperor's New Clothes? You tell me

i have been on bac for about 6 weeks and am up to 70mgs....still drinking moderatly,,,only se is sleepiness....