New here and starting Topa and with a question

[StuckinLA]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

meggie;1643290 wrote: How old is your Mom and how long has she been drinking again?

She's 60 or 61. Been drinking again for I'd say maybe 2 or 3 years - only wine, no hard liquor, and not every day. I've caught her on the phone a couple times sounding pretty drunk when my dad's been away on business, but I think she's otherwise holding it together very well and not over-indulging.

Oh and I don't know if medical detox is mandatory. If you stop drinking like a week before going, and if your vitals are stable you might not have to deal with the detox.

[meggie]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

Thanks for all the information. I am also a teacher and could do it during the summer months. My husband would and is not support. With his illness he is so into himself and would be thrilled with something to have against me.
I just applied for a larger health insurance, most likely won't get it because I also have worked with doctors about my drinking. So gum, you went to rehab and are still drinking? I am hoping to retire next year with 30 years. I so want to be free, free of the pressures of teaching and going to travel, teach in remote places and maybe go to rehab.

[gumtree]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

Hi All,

Meggie, I managed almost 6 years sober after rehab, which for me was a lot - and the first time ever in my life. Then I slipped a year ago. Lots going on at the time, depression, stress, marriage issues, financial, work and school. Also my husband has been drinking increasingly and daily over the last 3 years (has his own issues), which is a temptation to join back in. A perfect storm.

Now I'm trying to figure out if I can in fact learn to moderate. I may in the end go back to full abstinence with the help of antabuse, but for now am actually enjoying the sober weekdays and being able to enjoy 2 nights of wine on the weekend (sometimes it's 3, but I'm trying to keep it at 2) - have my cake and eat it too so to speak....... I'm still a work in progress. will see.

Good luck with what ever route you take! And for me it wasn't just the quitting (although that was HUGE), but all the therapy too. And the time to just work on myself away from the day to day stresses.... You are so close to retirement, that's a good thing!! My mom has been a drinker her whole life, but things really improved once she retired. She focused more on her health and gym, diet etc, and cut down on drinking. I bet once you're retired, and have one less stress it does a world of good for you. *hugs*

How is everyone else doing?? I had a great weekend overall. Nice dinner with my friends on Saturday. Didn't drink, but have to admit, really wanted to once I was home that night. But waited til last night thanks to the antabuse. So my first weekend with no hangover on Saturday or Sunday morning meant I had a workout both days. I'm fairly out of shape compared to what I used to be. I run, but haven't been doing weights for over a year. So after lunges/squats etc I can hardly walk down the stairs today lol!! I feel like a 90 year old not a 40 year old

Last night had a good visit with the in-laws, didn't drink there since it would have confused them (they don't know that I have started drinking again). And shared a bottle of wine with my hubby when we got home. That helps keep me under a bottle, so feeling good this morning too. Am planning to wait on the antabuse until tomorrow, so I can enjoy a day # 2 of wine this evening.

Hubby and I are doing well and talking a lot about stuff. Planning more trips to the gym together. His work stress is still bad, but he seems to have a better attitude, so I'm less worried.

Topa wise, taking my whole dose at 6-7pm, instead of splitting it into am/pm doses has really helped with my sleep! I'm sleeping through the night, not waking up at 2 or 3 am anymore the last 3 nights. Fingers crossed that continues, this is novel for me!

have a great day everyone xo

[sunshinedaisies]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

Evening all !! Sorry I haven't been around - but I DO feel better today!! I even went out and dug some spuds in the garden yesterday - it felt really good to get out there after the winter. Can't do much else yet but I could put the spuds in !!

Meggie the others have answered your question re rehab - I have never been nor had the courage to go! I know others who have and it has been a good experience for the most part - I didn't know that you had to detox before you actually went in - I thought that was the idea of it actually !! Anyway, I think if you think it would help you, then you should do it, no matter what your hubs thinks. It is YOUR life !!

Gum and stuck - I find it really disheartening that even after so long AF, you Gum, and Stucks mum, are back in the same place again ..... are we NEVER free of this then???? Always worrying about that slip - and ending back where we started ..... a real downer for me ! Am on day .... 4 but won't be counting days - I never do - after a week, anyway! Still no cigs though which i am really pleased about.

Gum - glad that the Topa in the pm is helping you sleep - I used to take my dose just in the pm and I never had any day time drowsiness. Your weekend sounded nice and sharing a bottle with hubs is fine - as long as a second bottle doesn't get opened !! you seem to be doing well with the AB .... good for you.

Sorry this isn't longer - I am tired and thinking of getting ready for bed soon - had to be up this morning at 3.30 to take someone to the airport !! And of course didn't get to bed any earlier than usual last night so am ready for bed !! trying to hold off for a while but it won't be long ....

Hugs to you all, sun XX

[StuckinLA]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

Hey everybody!

sunshinedaisies;1643739 wrote: I didn't know that you had to detox before you actually went in - I thought that was the idea of it actually !!
Medical detox is the first 4 or 5 days of rehab, from what I know. Either you're kept separate from everybody else or you're in a hospital before going to the rehab place. This is of course because withdrawal is no-bullshit dangerous, or can be. After medical detox then you join everybody else for the groups and meetings and classes and whatever.

sunshinedaisies;1643739 wrote: I find it really disheartening that even after so long AF, you Gum, and Stucks mum, are back in the same place again ..... are we NEVER free of this then???? Always worrying about that slip - and ending back where we started ..... a real downer for me !

Just wanna say a couple things here quickly - not directed at you, Sun, just quoting you because you have a really good point. I don't find it disheartening, or not too much. Backsliding is a real problem, but to say someone's in "the same place again" isn't necessarily true - nor that we are right back where we started.

First, I don't see my mom's 17 years sober as wasted or thrown away because she drinks again. I know you didn't say that, Sun, but there are plenty of people out there (in AA and rehab) who would say it that way, and I think that's wrong and insulting. Some people are worried about a slip every day, I'm sure, but for others it's not even an issue after a while. I think part of my anger toward the AA way of looking at things is trapping people in that mindset of worry - that if we don't go to meetings as often as we can, we'll drink. That has not been my experience at all, and I've known a couple people with 15 or 20 years sobriety, my mom included, who didn't go to meetings and didn't think their sobriety was constantly threatened. There was always wine and beer in my house, for my dad, and a bottle of AF wine for my mom. And another friend would come out to the bars with his wife and hang out while we drank, and he would have a diet coke.

But the main thing is to think that AF time is worthless without huge chunks of *sustained* AF time. Like OMG if you ever have another sip, you're just a worthless drunk. Relapse is a part of life - almost every personal story in the back of the AA Big Book is a relapse story.

Sorry, I'm too tired to fully articulate what I mean here. Anyway, have a good one everybody. I'm going to bed. :l

[sunshinedaisies]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

Stuck - I totally understood where you were coming from and thank you. Of course AF time is never 'wasted'. I think it just scares me a little that I will always be so close to problem drinking again. I am loving my AF time - this time it is easier - it seems to get easier each time - I am not having any cravings or even thinking about it - really odd I think, for me personally. I was feeling so ill the day before I decided to go AF (and it wasn't a hangover either) that if I do even 'think' of a drink, I think back to how i felt that day - and the drink thought goes away. So, I need to keep going how I am - whatever I am doing this time, it is working as I feel better each day - my BP is doing really well too - down almost to what it used to be.

I suppose what all of us REALLY want, is to have AF time then hope that one day we can have the odd drink - like 'normal' people. If I am honest with myself, I have to admit that probably the answer to that is no. And AA has never been for me anyway although it can and does help folk.

I also think that I wouldn't want to constantly feel i was fighting a battle - which if I constantly went to meetings, i would feel i was - I want to be Af without thinking of AL all the time.

not sure if I have made any sense - I sort of feel how you put in your last words stuck .... not sure if I have fully articulated what I mean to say but there you have it!!

and on that note - everyone have a wonderful day,

hugs, Sun XXX

[StuckinLA]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

sunshinedaisies;1643868 wrote:

I suppose what all of us REALLY want, is to have AF time then hope that one day we can have the odd drink - like 'normal' people.

Not me, man, I want to be a raging drunk. I'm completely serious. I was a great raging drunk, it just doesn't work anymore.

[sunshinedaisies]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

StuckinLA;1643974 wrote: Not me, man, I want to be a raging drunk. I'm completely serious. I was a great raging drunk, it just doesn't work anymore.

What makes you think that you were a great raging drunk? And why doesn't it work any more ?

[mama bear]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

sending hugs to you Sunshine!!

[StuckinLA]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

Withdrawal, super-high blood pressure, and to be honest drinking just doesn't feel good anymore - that's why I say it doesn't work. Don't know what it is, going into drinking knowing the problems it'll cause, or a natural progression of alcoholism, but the first couple drinks don't feel like they used to, I don't look forward to them, don't think shots will be a good idea anymore, and then before you know it I'm already kind of sloppy and in a blackout.

But in my 20's, oh the fun I had.

[sunshinedaisies]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

StuckinLA;1644056 wrote:

But in my 20's, oh the fun I had.

ROTFLMBO - didn't we all !!!!!

Oh - my BP has really come down big time - it is back to normal - although mine was always super low and it hasn't gone back to being that low - but even just after 5 days there is a huge difference !!

sun XX

[sunshinedaisies]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

mama bear;1644013 wrote: sending hugs to you Sunshine!!

Hi there jan - hugs back at you !!! Will PM you .....

Love, sun XXX

[gumtree]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

LOL, really enjoyed the back and forth between you two Stuck and Sun!!

Sun, it's true, it's discouraging at how high the relapse rate is. I remember being in treatment and being shocked that some people were there for their second or third time! Most people relapse. It's life. And when we do, as alcoholics (or problem drinkers, or whatever term you prefer), we usually end up fairly quickly back at where we started. But my mom, and Stuck's it seems, who have had heavy drinking in the past, and sober time, seem to be drinking now without it being all consuming. We don't all fit into the same black box.

And, as Stuck says, all the AF time is not wasted, or "gone" like AA says. I take real issue with their philosophy. And a recent Macleans' article shows that they DON'T have a huge success rate either with their guilt mongering approach to slips. It's something like only 13% or so, can't remember exactly.

All AF time is time in the bank that you've learned what life can be like sober. Every day like yesterday, today and so on where I have my AF days, it reconnects me to the years I had AF, I'm remembering how it felt, my old routine, gym stuff and so on. I'm not back at zero, I don't feel that way in my spirit anyhow.

And as for your worry Sun that you'd constantly be fighting a battle. The reason so many people decide to go completely AF instead of moderate is to stop the battle. My 6 years AF were mostly pretty serene with no thoughts of drinking at all. True, the first three months after rehab were HARD. And the first year had challenges every time I went through a life event like xmas or camping for the first time without alcohol. But years 2-5 were pretty breezy. Had wine in the house left over from parties or that clients would give me as gifts not knowing I was a recovered alcoholic, and it just went in the basement and I never thought about it. I learned I could go out dancing or to parties and be just as goofy without being drunk. I never had cravings. If occasionally I had a wistful thought of "oh, wouldn't it be nice to have a glass of wine with dinner along with my friends" it was like a fleeting thought, and I'd just say, not worth it, because I knew one drink would bring back the cravings. And getting to that point were you have NO cravings AT ALL. That was pretty cool.

The only times I struggled slightly would be away on holiday, out of my routine, when everyone else turned into lushes. And of course the last few months of my AF time, I was craving again a bit due to my stress, and my husband's drinking, it's like I gave up on my recovery one night, it took me off guard. And honestly, I enjoy wine so much, and now don't have an ultimatum from my husband, so am looking for motivation solely for my health and mental well being to keep the drinking in check. The first time around my marriage was on the line, hence the rehab.

As I said, I don't know what I'll end up choosing down the road. Trying to moderate (which is a struggle for me, but means I get to enjoy my wine), or back to AF if I decide the struggle becomes too much.......

[StuckinLA]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

gumtree;1644214 wrote: And a recent Macleans' article shows that they DON'T have a huge success rate either with their guilt mongering approach to slips. It's something like only 13% or so, can't remember exactly.

Yeah that sounds about right. And 80% of those who try to give up booze do NOT make it to 1 year without a drink. People also tend to forget that around 5% of the alcoholic population is able to go into spontaneous remission - meaning that when they decide to, they can completely quit drinking on their own with no treatment or recovery or help. They just stop.

So while AA is notoriously unaccountable with their success rate (for many reasons, not all of them nefarious), that 13% includes 5% who would have gotten better on their own without AA.

The problem with the guilt, and with Step 1, is that the more you believe you're powerless the more psychologically damaging a slip will be. That's one of the reasons AA people can go on suicidal benders if they slip up. "Oh, I'm powerless against my disease, oh, I'm such a f**k up and worthless, oh god, etc."

[meggie]

New here and starting Topa and with a question

Interesting banter, but it does make you wonder what is the percentage of people that can become a moderate drinker. How many stay sober? I wonder if my friend facing death can really quit. I hate my drinking, I hate my weight, but I am off my antidepressants.
I am reading a book that says only about 30 percent remain clean. My friend has been in rehab 5 times. I do hope once I retire that I can spend time on myself. The teaching profession has changed so much. We are testing and I am so tired. I am so frustrated with the testing, the optining out, some putting on answeres that are wrong to prove a point. This is what is going to determine if I am a good teacher.
I find myself giving myself labels, drunk, alcoholic, mother, teacher, mentor, friend, nonfriend. When I am good I am really good.
I no my problem, I need to get to the gym, get back to my yoga.
I wonder if people know I drink, am a drunk. Do they look at me like my friend. I hear remorse in peoples words but I also hear them say well, she was a drunk.
Sorry, need to ramble.