Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

[PhoenixRising]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

ignominous;960539 wrote: Hi Phoenix
I like what I read in your posts so please forgive me, I've just come back from having a drink with an old friend.
Is that the consolidated "tingleing in my toenails and I've been posting for 8 months" thread?

There's a couple of them, some deal with side effects, some deal with hitting the switch, etc. Check them out.

[ignominous]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

The comprehensive compilation thread is actually 2 threads, that's reassuring. I have.

[B4A]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

ignominous;960263 wrote: I just felt that Phill's idea was to make this athread to compile information rather than to analyse his case. My apologies, I think I may have started of on the wrong foot in this forum, my first btw. I am an alcoholic and often we tend to rub people up the wrong way, I think this is a trait that many of us are prone to.
Anyway back to the original thread: I really don't know much. I've been taking Bac for about 2 weeks and can't draw any conclusions yet. Only I can say that a few days before I started I bought 100mg of Lioresal after having read about Dr A and assuming that it was all hot air devoured 90mg with a large quantity of alcohol. For several days after I could't remove the thought from my head that this mirical snake oil might actually have some merit. Therefor decided to give it a more serious chance.

With all due respect, to all but IG, you all do seem to get me wrong. You do doubt me erroneously. IG gets what I am trying to do. Thank you.
But something happened to me with my last supply that I knew I should share. It appears that I need to clarify.
I have a ton of information about all the vagories of different 'baclofens'. I shall publish this very soon. And, if you note, I haven't put any link on here to 'sell' it.
This message is much more important.
I described the new symptoms in an earlier posting.
I have had a terrible time, having got my usual supply and in the usual dose.
I still am, although it has just about stopped.
Mega symptoms at the same dose that I had been taking for months.
And even THAT dose wasn't that big a dose.
I thought that you should all know that you should all be very careful.
I know that many of you doubt me.
To be honest, I couldn't care less.
Antics.
Like hell.
No need to entertain them.
There are none.
This is an important message.
Even a good source of Baclofen might not be as good as you thought it was.
This time.
Best wishes
Phill

[ignominous]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

Hi Phill, good to see your still around. Don't let the bastard grind you down and all that. I believe your genuine. Can't really see why so many people here get their feathers ruffled.
To you unbelievers I would think that Dr Phill didn't win any Mr Popularity awards at school and therefor compensated with his achievements. Easier said than done. Credit where credit's due. I think there's virtue in a new approach. I'm all for harmony (big hippy peace sign) but maybe we can get over that and use what Dr Phill has to offer.
OK I'm off my soap box now. Please all forgive my amateur psycology.
.

[terryk]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

Phill- I've never doubted you in my posts. If you want to create some constructive dialog on this forum, why don't you just start to share some of the important information that you claim to have (This is a quote from one of your posts - "I probably know more about Baclofen and us than anybody else; including OA"). Instead of trying to direct and orchestrate the conversations here, why don't you just tell us more about *your* specific experience with baclofen and alcohol (dosage, brand, titration, alcohol consumption, etc). And I'm still waiting to hear about what happened to your baclofen blog on your website (you mention baclofen withdrawal and then nothing, no updates since April 2010). Why not give that a go? -tk

Edit: p.s. - Phill, if you have information or a theory that certain types of baclofen may be dangerous ("I thought that you should all know that you should all be very careful" and "Even a good source of Baclofen might not be as good as you thought it was") Don't you think you owe it to the people on this forum to share that information as soon as possible? If you don't back up those statements, what purpose do they serve? Are you trying create fear and doubt in the minds of many of us on the forum who are taking this medication? Please respond.

[B4A]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

Hi
I thank those of you who have supported me.
Take the next words very seriously.
Do you want me to tell it totally straight? Or do you want my sanitised MWO version?
The sanitised version might stop me getting horrible PM's or personal e-mails though my web site.
"I know where you live" stuff.
I jest not. I really don't.
There is no need to be afraid about Baclofen. But it isn't as easy as OA says.
I've talked to him personally about it.
We both know that it isn't.
Phill

[terryk]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

Phill- You've promised to tell your story, and we've asked you to tell your story. You haven't given us any details yet. You've made some vague statements pertaining to the safety of baclofen. I've asked you to back those statements up and so far you haven't answered *ANY* of my queries. I've been nothing but cordial and respectful to you in my posts and I've never threatened you or asked you to sanitize your language. Quite the opposite. You've mentioned many times that you try to respond to correspondence within 24 hours. My questions began weeks ago and you haven't even *acknowledged* any of them. Do my posts not have any merit? I don't want to fight or argue with anyone on this forum or anywhere. I don't have the energy. I just want to get healthy. Your posts have created a circus around here that I think many people find disruptive. One way to change that is to *please* tell us your stories, information, and theories, and let the dialog happen naturally. -tk baclofen 5 months 260mg/day mostly AF.

[ignominous]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

I for one want it totally straight. I think I understand what Dr Phill means by the sanitised MWO version but I sooooooo........ want the truth. LOL
I do think that a trained Doctor of Medicine is likely to have more of an understanding of what is going on compared to a lay person.
So pleeeeeeeeeeease good Doctor give it to us straight, with or without your shirt. If you can take your skin off we'll literally be down to the bare bones of the matter. I thought it was noble, just my 2 cents. You have my vote and encouragement.
I endorse what Terry says about giving out some info and let the people here have a chance to not act like codependent alcoholics or whatever

[Lo0p]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

Just spill it Phill. If you're going to relay something that OA said, please do your best to put it into quotation marks. I'd prefer you didn't try to do any paraphrasing of any sort, so that we don't have to try and discern his words and intent from yours. That would be next to impossible given the cryptic style of communication you've chosen to employ lately.

Please don't worry or warn us about how we *might* interpret it. Just be clear and concise and leave the rest up to us.

Many of us know things about baclofen and alcohol that you don't and may never know. If there's anything that I've learned recently it's that everybody's response and experience is unique. The only way to successfully navigate that is with a good dose of humility. We would most certainly appreciate you contributing to our base of knowledge. Precisely how you can accomplish that is to offer up your own.

If you can do that, then I just might find out where you live and bring you a fugging cup of tea. If not then don't try and please don't ever ask us again if we want to know something.
We don't have the time to say yes or no.

:welcome: to MWO -Evan

[Lo0p]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

B4A;963681 wrote: There is no need to be afraid about Baclofen. But it isn't as easy as OA says.
I've talked to him personally about it.
We both know that it isn't.

If there is anything that we as a group of people are keenly aware of it is this. No offense meant at all but mentioning it is like beating a dead horse. We don't even talk about it anymore it goes without saying.

OA himself would benefit from reading these forums.

[Lo0p]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

Oh and I've been told I can be quite harsh sometimes so I apologize.

:truce: :sorry:

Just start over, start now and everything will be fine, you'll see.

[Otter]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

Take your time

The side effects of Baclofen are such that people are becoming "detached from reality" at high dose and it is putting people off. The general notion on this web site is that you keep upping the dose until you get to the trigger point but a lot of people are getting into some difficulty with that approach. The French site has some advice about how to take Baclofen and the main thought from that site is to take your time. If you feel that the side effects are getting a bit too much then you should reduce a bit. Some suggest you should only take a pill at a time and go up by 10 mg a day.

It really is important, I think, to start thinking about how to make Baclofen usable and this is why "self prescribing" is not such a great idea for a lot of people who really do need to be supervised by a doctor who knows about Baclofen and its side effects. Then there are the issues of life which present themselves once you have recovered which make some just want to relapse to forget about them.

Baclofen is not candy. There seem to be some on this site who can tolerate taking large doses and are prepared to suffer the side effects but not everyone likes to ski the kamikaze runs either and for those who cannot take the side effects there has to be more discussion of how to avoid them. I don't think the side effects are necessary if the titration is handled properly, nor does it seem that everyone has to go to such a high dose as previously thought.

[B4A]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

Hi again.
This posting will probably be overly long, but it seems that it is what you want from me right now.
Some of you may not know me. So, briefly.
I lost both my medical, surgical and legal careers through alcohol. I lost much more, but that is beside the question.
I am an experienced medical writer, who has produced Patient Guides for many companies. Therefore, I know how to sift the wheat from the chaff and produce ‘user-friendly’ material.
I am most definitely NOT an authority on alcoholism or any other substance abuse.
I’m an alcoholic.
I used to be an authority on nutrition and the use of surgery for food abuse. In many ways, obesity is very analogous to alcohol abuse.
I am getting a little tired of writing the same stuff everyday.
Terryk, have you ever e-mailed me personally through the baclofen4alcoholism.com site? I am honoured that almost everybody who comes to me through that site, does so with their real name. If you have posted a question to me on MWO, I will probably not have ever seen it. I don’t visit very often. If you sent me an e-mail through the site, I know that I have responded to you. If you want to ask me something, e-mail me directly, through the site.
Lo0p, my friend. I absolutely know that you and others know more about alcoholism and baclofen and all sorts more much more than I do. I hold you in total respect. You do great things here, and you are well appreciated for it. I miss your personal e-mails. Amassing material is great. And fundamentally important. But at some stage, the ground roots need to get that material in a way they can use.
What do I do, Lo0p? OA telephoned me (don’t know how he got my home number) and we chatted for more than an hour. He wanted me to do some newspaper articles because he didn’t have the time. He accepted all I said about the side effects of Baclofen. We agreed on almost everything. Should I keep that secret from you? Mentioning it is no dead horse, nor was it name dropping, my friend. It is a horse with a lot of life in it yet. You wait and see.
Otter is, as ever, perfectly correct. People ARE becoming detached from reality at these high doses. My e-mail inbox bears considerable testimony to that.
So, to the meat.
I have been taking Baclofen for almost 16 months. I have been running the web site for more than a year. It has been a humbling, bizarre and sometime painful experience.
I could lament a huge number of things and people. But you would criticise me for that.
I have recently undertaken an exercise. Lo0p knows exactly why I cannot provide an audit. My sample size is too small. They are self-choosing (telling me the good, telling me the bad). They are not questioned appropriately by a ‘blind’ questioner. There is no randomness.
In short, Lo0p, it is rubbish science.
So, we rely upon anecdotes.
As I have said lots of times on MWO, enough anecdotes start to become evidence.
So, I set up several pages on my web site for you all to send me basic analytical statistics about your baclofen, and your response to it. I got some fantastic replies, but not enough.
You lot like to talk, but you don't have much to say. Not scientifically.
To put it simply, you lot like to talk, but you don’t want to contribute to what is, without a doubt, the World’s current most valuable uncontrolled experiment.
This might be one of the World's last people's revolt. You have got to understand this. 'Together we are Stronger'.
A ‘thread’ about complications is pointless if it is diluted with everybody’s chat. We are all pissed. We need quick, 'proper' information that anybody can read quickly.
I wanted a thread where you only added a new complication if it was genuinely new. Or you had a new solution. Then we could dissect it and try to find a mechanism and then a solution.
That is what I have tried to do through my web site.
That process is now as complete as I can make it without me going even more insane.
I have just short of 100 different side effects and reactions to Baclofen across all the body systems, taken by people like you and me.
All organised systematically, and roughly by order of frequency.
We have worked our way through most of them; trying to dind specific remedies that can work with some problems.
I’m going to publish this mass of totally practical material. I just don’t know the best way to do it.
My instinct was the web site, but at 25,000 words it's just too big.
Further, those who have helped me with this want it as a tangible book that they can carry with them or keep at home.
I don’t know. But they have, to a man and woman, asked for a book they can carry around.
As ever, I will be damned if i do. Damned if I don't. Damned whatever I do.
That’s enough for now.
Phill

[B4A]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

Hi again.
This posting will probably be overly long, but it seems that it is what you want from me right now.
Some of you may not know me. So, briefly.
I lost both my medical, surgical and legal careers through alcohol. I lost much more, but that is beside the question.
I am an experienced medical writer, who has produced Patient Guides for many companies. Therefore, I know how to sift the wheat from the chaff and produce ‘user-friendly’ material.
I am most definitely NOT an authority on alcoholism or any other substance abuse.
I’m an alcoholic.
I used to be an authority on nutrition and the use of surgery for food abuse. In many ways, obesity is very analogous to alcohol abuse.
I am getting a little tired of writing the same stuff everyday.
Terryk, have you ever e-mailed me personally through the baclofen4alcoholism.com site? I am honoured that almost everybody who comes to me through that site, does so with their real name. If you have posted a question to me on MWO, I will probably not have ever seen it. I don’t visit very often. If you sent me an e-mail through the site, I know that I have responded to you. If you want to ask me something, e-mail me directly, through the site.
Lo0p, my friend. I absolutely know that you and others know more about alcoholism and baclofen and all sorts more much more than I do. I hold you in total respect. You do great things here, and you are well appreciated for it. I miss your personal e-mails. Amassing material is great. And fundamentally important. But at some stage, the ground roots need to get that material in a way they can use.
What do I do, Lo0p? OA telephoned me (don’t know how he got my home number) and we chatted for more than an hour. He wanted me to do some newspaper articles because he didn’t have the time. He accepted all I said about the side effects of Baclofen. We agreed on almost everything. Should I keep that secret from you? Mentioning it is no dead horse, nor was it name dropping, my friend. It is a horse with a lot of life in it yet. You wait and see.
Otter is, as ever, perfectly correct. People ARE becoming detached from reality at these high doses. My e-mail inbox bears considerable testimony to that.
So, to the meat.
I have been taking Baclofen for almost 16 months. I have been running the web site for more than a year. It has been a humbling, bizarre and sometime painful experience.
I could lament a huge number of things and people. But you would criticise me for that.
I have recently undertaken an exercise. Lo0p knows exactly why I cannot provide an audit. My sample size is too small. They are self-choosing (telling me the good, telling me the bad). They are not questioned appropriately by a ‘blind’ questioner. There is no randomness.
In short, Lo0p, it is rubbish science.
So, we rely upon anecdotes.
As I have said lots of times on MWO, enough anecdotes start to become evidence.
So, I set up several pages on my web site for you all to send me basic analytical statistics about your baclofen, and your response to it. I got some fantastic replies, but not enough.
To put it simply, you lot like to talk, but you don’t want to contribute to what is, without a doubt, the World’s current most valuable uncontrolled experiment.
A ‘thread’ about complications is pointless if it is diluted with everybody’s chat. I wanted a thread where you only added a new one if it was genuinely new. Then we could dissect it and try to find a mechanism and then a solution.
That is what I have tried to do through my web site.
That process is now as complete as I can make it without going even more insane.
I have just short of 100 side effects and reactions to Baclofen, taken by people like you and me.
We have worked our way through most of them. The answer is usually simple. Take it gently or stop.
There are a few specific other remedies that can work with some other problems.
I’m going to publish this mass of totally practical material. I just don’t know the best way to do it.
Those of you who talk to me via the site want it as a tangible book that they can carry with them.
I don’t know.
That’s enough for now.
Phill

[B4A]

Dr Phill - Baclofen - Tell me what you know

ignominous;963389 wrote: Hi Phill, good to see your still around. Don't let the bastard grind you down and all that. I believe your genuine. Can't really see why so many people here get their feathers ruffled.
To you unbelievers I would think that Dr Phill didn't win any Mr Popularity awards at school and therefor compensated with his achievements. Easier said than done. Credit where credit's due. I think there's virtue in a new approach. I'm all for harmony (big hippy peace sign) but maybe we can get over that and use what Dr Phill has to offer.
OK I'm off my soap box now. Please all forgive my amateur psycology.
.

Ha IG!!
We just spoke privately, but I've just seen this.
Actually, I was a shy, but well liked kid at school, thank you for asking.
Lots of mates and totally gregarious in my quiet way.
Represented my school at rugby, cricket, football and lacrosse.
Friends I kept and added to for another 30 years.
A junior surgical staff who would do anything for me.
Then, in my forties, I lost it all. Friends disappear when you're an acloholic.
Now I have none but my closest family.
If I come across as prickly, it is because I am lonely, frustrated and unhappy.
And I know there is much we could all do if we organised ourselves.
How about you?
Who, where and what are you right now?
Phill