Here's a Google translation of the full study

[Lo0p]

Here's a Google translation of the full study

neva eva;963499 wrote: Hmmmm.
I've gotta take issue, here. I am sort of hoping to be completely shut down.
I'll do it!! :bat ...just kiddin'

But, dammit, what are the facts?
They're there you just have to read very carefully and you can't infer or assume anything. It is a tedious exercise. Think about the most the most boring conversation you've ever had and how it was soooooo difficult to listen to. Reading medical articles is like that.

There are 60 people in this? selected because they sought treatment. (Could that be right?)
So I'm gonna go ahead and ignore what I just said above...I haven't done much more than skimmed the article because I've developed a passion for hating them. I don't remember them stating a selection process which is another major drawback of the study.

23 of them end up in emergency care...as suicide attempts. The 23 leave without a death among them. (Thankful about that.) I'm not clear about what they were taking or when.

terryk cleared that up. I'm assuming (again something I shouldn't do) that those 23 patients were suicide attempts that occurred sometime throughout the whole history of baclofen's market availability. And in only 8 of them did ingest only baclofen. Moral of the story is if you're gonna try to kick the bucket, throwing baclofen at it isn't gonna knock it over.

THREE months? Seriously? This can't be suggested as a solution, much less a cure, if the follow up is 3 months. And it was published when? And please tell me I'm wrong about the 60 patients. That's what? you and me and a few others on here. Highly motivated...Read the book...Done the research...Willing to take the risk...In a place to actually take it...Done with being an alcoholic.
I was sober for longer in AA. Without the SEs.

Newton's first law of motion be damned! $$$$MONEY$$$$ is what makes this world go 'round! This is the best we're going to get until somebody throws some money at the problem.

In all seriousness though, even with a well-funded study, very rarely does an effect of a medication on a population get recorded and reported for more than a few months. It is the nature of the beast, and is how we get wonder drugs like Vioxx that kill people (Yay).

lo0p and Tip, Dr. A's study seems to prove you're the exception, not the rule.

His study doesn't prove a damn thing. It wasn't designed well enough. What it does show is the stuff does work and somebody should damn well take it seriously and study it more carefully!

Seriously?

Yes! :H Wait...No, yes! Right? :nutso:

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Here's a Google translation of the full study

LOL.
Right. Shoddy or a bad translation, at least someone is doing something. Thanks, loOp for the gentle encouragement to read more carefully. I'll try.
Thanks, Terry, for suicide clarification. I got to that part and wondered how it could be that 30% of the patients got so sick...
best

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Here's a Google translation of the full study

bump for 37

I think this is what sunny was referring to.
Sorry about the nal. Good luck with the bac.

[gratitude]

Here's a Google translation of the full study

hopefully this study was just a precursor to a controlled randomized study. perhaps this was just to raise eyebrows in the medical community? get some attention and perhaps money for the real deal?

[Sunnyvalenting]

Here's a Google translation of the full study

bump for 37

[37degrees]

Here's a Google translation of the full study

Thanks.

We do need larger studies, but there are none registered that I know of, so this is all we have.

I think it is worthwhile to point out that "successes" in alcohol treatment studies are not what the average person would consider a big deal. For example, a recent (9/10) Cochrane meta-analysis featured Campral. The number needed to treat to benefit was 9. That is, 9 people had to be treated to get just 1 success. This is considered to be supportive of Campral as treatment for alcoholism.

As a side note, a few of the studies looked at naltrexone (non-TSM) and Campral - the 2 meds were comparable.

[AllyB]

Here's a Google translation of the full study

37degrees;1014830 wrote:

As a side note, a few of the studies looked at naltrexone (non-TSM) and Campral - the 2 meds were comparable.

I've read that both Campral and Nal (non TSM) have both shown to be less effective than placebo?

[37degrees]

Here's a Google translation of the full study

AllyB;1015155 wrote: I've read that both Campral and Nal (non TSM) have both shown to be less effective than placebo?

The Cochrane review (basically a statistically-sophisticated literature review) shows an NNT of 9 for Campral, which indicates a mild efficacy over placebo, though considered to be pretty good for alcoholism treatments. NAL (non-TSM) likewise show mild but positive effects.

There is actually a clinical study looking at a drug similar to NAL, and administered in a way consistent with TSM. The results are supposed to be out this month, and should be of great interest to AL researchers, as well as the investors of the drug manufacturer ( Biotie ).

I suspect that the study will show a mild effect, just like non-TSM NAL. I hope that it will increase the visibility of medication-based treatments for alcoholism among clinicians (a mild effect is better than nothing), and it will encourage studies of other drug modalities (e.g. high-dose BAC).