taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

[henry]

hi its henry here, thanks for all helpful advice given in this community. my problem is this: i was prescribed 20mg of citalopram for depression but really it was for a heighted anxiety response to things that formerly did not affect me at all eg loud noises, dogs barking etc. My doctor explained that the autonomic system elevates itself to a higher level much like ones immune system does when one starts to have allergic responses to things that are in fact not dangerous to one's body. so my autonomic system goes into action against stimuli that are objectively threatening to me eg the prospect of being mugged at night or knifed when encountering some danger in the street. But it also now unfortunately detects dangers in things that are not in fact threatening. But unfortunately I cannot switch off this system and go back to the way things were before.

The citalopram unfortunately does not seem to suppress my anxiety and I dont really think my problem is depression. i of course want the anxiety to go - it is affecting my sleep quite badly. Being a regular sound sleeper before, I now walk up at 2:30-3:30 and cant get back to sleep. So I wonder it taking an benzodiazepine would be of benefit eg valium? My guess is it would intensify the sleepiness that baclofen can visit on you at roughtly 9pm (unfortunately it doesnt work beyond this - and it is only for an hour or so) since it works on the GABAA receptors - where baclofen works on the GABAB ones. Any advice would be gratefully received.

[henry]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

has anyone taken buspirone with baclofen - specifically, might it reduce the effect of baclofen?

[Cinders]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

Hi, Henry.

I can't help you with that question but I did want to welcome you. :welcome:

Have you talked to your doctor about Baclofen and Buspirone? Or your pharmacist?

That is what I would do.

Cindi

[ignominous]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

Hi Henry
Know nothing about any of the drugs that you're talking about. But I'm a world expert on Baclofen. Very safe drug in small doses (80mg daily).
Frankly "suck it and see". I'm not a Doctor but if I was I wouldn't be concerned prescribing up to that limit.

Someone is going to chime in here and say I am giving irresposible advice. I am. I have no more than 3 weeks experience with this drug. My first remedial drug I might add.

Fuck, try it out for size, if it fits wear it.

It's safe by all accounts up to 80mg.

Start with 5 mg. taken 3x daily. If the side effects are manageable then move up 5mg a day. If you feel that the SEs are more than your used to, then ease off and let your body become acclimatised to the baclofen.

[gyco]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

hi henry and the rest,one doesnt have to apoligise for advice whether your a doctor or not,as far as bac i to have never taken it,researched it,as far as the others,benzo s and other anti depressents [vallium clonazapam]including oxies and morphine and last but not least tramadol,i beleive there perscribed for moderate use,and if one gets better you get off of them,i beleive most people come here,due to al or drug abuse and maybe other abuses,over doing of substance or life,that could mean anything,i do no drinking tto extremes and the use of these substances only affects the human brain more,im not at this site as much anymore,i beleive it tot me,anything i over do is an addiction,never be scared to ask,theres always someone out there that has gone thro similar,i wish you well,if it works,dont lose it gyco

[eight days a week]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

Hi Henry :welcome:

I don't really understand your question(s) I'm afraid.

How long have you been on the citalopram? It can take weeks to ward off that anxiety (which indeed can often be brought on by even mild depression). If you've been on it for only a short time, then I'd say stick it out for a while yet before adding in an addictive med like a benzo on a regular basis. If you can't cope short-term then maybe it's an idea, but if you are able to please don't make a habit of it!!

I have it on very good authority that taking Bac and Valium won't hinder the Bac side of things (re: alcohol).

So, if you need to short term, maybe a bit of benzo when you wake up during the night? There's no need to take it before you go to sleep - although it's comparatively long-acting in the body the main effect of a mild dose will only last for an hour or two - enough to get you back to sleep.

Also, Bac gives me strange, nightmarish, dreams and doesn't let me sleep for long if it's active in my system. For that reason I never take it less than four hours before I go to bed, and all seems fine then. After all, why suppress cravings when you're asleep?!!

All the best

[beatle]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

Benzos/antidepressants and baclofen, anxiety

WARNING: This a VERY long post, and may not be of relevance to those of you who have not had to deal with anxiety and/or depression.

I am writing this not because of any need to "offload" myself, but because I believe my experience could be of benefit to some of the members here who have asked questions/expressed concerns like henry's...

Here is my experience:

I have had severe anxiety pretty much all of my life. In the past few years, I have also had sometimes severe, sometimes mild depression.

I have been prescribed and tried many SSRIs (almost all of them, I think).

They all intensified my anxiety so much that I hallucinated and was in danger of committing suicide. My doctors, unfailingly, told me to "stick with it". Yeah, right, stick with it until you are dead. These doctors were not just uncaring, but irresponsible, and thank goodness I had the good sense to not "stick with it" until I took my own life. (I had support of my husband in this-- that is, in quitting the SSRIs before it was too late.)

The psych I started going to last year (privately) is an anxiety specialist. She told me SSRIs are not appropriate for anxiety, because they heighten anxiety as part of their mechanism of action: depressed people need this, but it can have unfortunate side effects for people with anxiety, and especially for those who are bipolar, is what I think she said (not sure, though).

The psych had never heard of Baclofen (anxiety expert that she is), but after I told her that I had begun to take it myself (through online pharmacies), she agreed to look into it and came back to me with the conclusion that addiction specialists she knew had used it with mixed and limited success (at low levels, of course).

However, she looked at the literature I gave her (including Ameisen's book), and decided to prescribe me 100mg/day, based on the research already done, and the reassurance from her research that baclofen is a "safe" medication.

She also knows I take 150mg/day, and implicitly supports this by "over-prescribing" in terms of days. She was surprised that the pharmacy (a big-name discount department store) would fill my prescriptions when it was clear I was getting more than the prescribed amount per day. I'm guessing it is because baclofen is not on the "red flag" list for potentially addictive/abused drugs. Also, since it is generic and cheap and readily available online, it would have very low re-sale value, and thus doesn't draw attention (I'm just speculating, here, of course).

However and this is the part that answers your question, henry, she has also prescribed benzos for me (clonazepam and lorazepam), and when I questioned this, she assured me there was no problem with taking both (besides the possibility of compounded somnolence during the day... As I have chronic insomnia (made worse by the baclofen), I am not worried about somnolence at night.)

The caveat on this (as with ALL medications) is that I myself must closely monitor my own response/reactions, and take responsibility to stop if the SEs are severe, and contact my doctor with questions/problems.

I think everybody must do this for themselves. I only think my psych is willing to experiment a little with me because she is confident I will do this (as I have done with other medications which didn't agree with me in the past (in addition to SSRIs)-- Abilify, Geodon, and Seroquel).

So that's enough from me for now. I have a lot of work to get to, and just took a couple hours to write this. It will be worth it if it helps even one person here.

[RedThread12]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

Thanks, Beatle: It is information (and intent) like yours that keeps blowing my mind about this forum. In a sample of one, 100% of people who read, research and take responsibility for figuring out what works for them and what doesn't, save their lives. I'll always and only be grateful.

Henry: I had great results with baclofen from day 1, which was about a year ago. When I started taking it, I was also taking Zoloft for depression. After some time on baclofen AND initiating a serious campaign of l-glutamine, all-one and other amino acids, I naturally and with no effort quit taking the Zoloft. So that's all I know about AD's. I didn't know I suffered from anxiety until I started baclofen and immediately felt relief from the craving for alcohol.

However; I am deeply committed to sleep. I believe that hormonal disruption of my sleep was a major contributor to my deep alcoholism. SO - I have a stash of benzos (valium, in my case) that I don't hesitate to use. In my experience, there's no problem with taking baclofen AND taking a benzo to help sleep. In fact, I think that the baclofen also works as an inhibitor to the general rule that benzo's lose their effectiveness and create cravings for higher dosages.

This is just my experience, but in the past, if I've had a bottle full of valium I would mis-use it. Now, I can have it sitting around for ages and use it only when I wake in the middle of the night and really need to get back to sleep. Another HUGE marker of baclofen's benefits, IMO.

I wouldn't worry about baclofen and benzo's.

The heightened autonomic response sounds like PTSD - your limbic system is equating present time stimuli with something life-threatening from the past. Actually, you CAN re-train your brain/mind/body. There's lots of evidence today that some of the emerging therapies such as EMDR, Mindfulness Meditation, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, and even yoga can help us re-wire our brains - really! So don't give up hope that you can help yourself get better. I'm not saying that these things should replace appropriate medication. Not at all.

So that's my rather long response, based on my own experience. Best of luck to you as you find YOUR way out.

[gyco]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

hi again,hope things are going better henry,beatle i holy agree with you,some people have to do a lot of research for themselves,im happy you ve found wht you needed in your life, and writing your reply,many doctors reseach the best medicine they think will have the best effect for there patients,not all are in it for xtra money,meds and the rite ones are like coming here,if it works dont let it go gyco

[BradyKelly]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

RedThread12;966427 wrote: something life-threatening from the past

Alcoholism?

[henry]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

thanks for the advice

Thanks for all this. what I am thinking of doing is ceasing taking citalopram - i have been on it fors something like three months - and taking buspirone to see if this will work. I have been taking baclofen for about 9 months becoming immune to alcohol craving at 275mg taken for two months. I then tritrated down to 125mg but then went up to 200mg since I felt inclined to take alchol as a way of controlling my anxiety (Im not sure I really felt any craving but had had to drop abruptly from 225mg to 125mg due to baclofen shortage which increased anxiety greatly). anyway I have read up on buspirone and and note that it also has an antidepressant effect though its main effect is on anxiety itself. thanks again for all your sound advice.

[Guest]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

adding baclofen to klonipin (clonazepam)

Hi this is panda...haven't posted lately. I need to ask if anyone can help me with possible SE's from baclofen...especially adding it to my current benzo (klonipin). I keep getting extremely COLD....actually FREEZING....I believe that's called "HYPOTHERMIA"!! Will this SE get better??? Also having the typical puffy face, hands,feet, ringing in head, confusion etc. hoping those level out...current bac dose is 60mg/day. klon-1.5mg/day.
Also..I am noticing that I am experiencing "benzo" withdrawals while still on same dose of klon. since adding bac. This has me concerned that the combo is going haywire in my system!! And...actually the freezing cold symptoms... (from my previous experience with benzo WD's).... is a very familiar "benzo" WD symptom!!
My theory is that the bac is somehow in some bizzare way diminishing the klonipin in my system...and therefor putting me in a constant state of Benzo WD's!! So now I can't really think about titrating down on the klon. because I'm already "benzo withdrawing".......
Anyone had any experience with this or know anything at all about all this??? Would appreciate any/all input..and/or expertise on this!!!
Thanks!! Going nutty...panda:nutso:

[suneelca]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

Panda - have you spoken with your MD? If not, I would call her immediately.

[Guest]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

back on track!!

suneelca;1255083 wrote: Panda - have you spoken with your MD? If not, I would call her immediately.

Hey..suneelca...thanks for the reply!! I had to sort all this out in my daily journal (after my earlier post) and saw where the problem arose!! Stood out like a "sore thumb"!! Just when I was doing good and had a major breakthrough and relief from my anxieties...
at 50mg/day bac and 1.5mg klon ...the very next day ...went up to 60mg bac and dropped 0.5mg klon...."double-wammy"...OMG...it has been pure "H-E-L-L" ever since!! Have to listen to your own body..... mine was "screamimg" ...STOP!!! Things were moving way tooooooooo fast!! So I plan to go back down to 50mg and 1.5. Already noticing slight improvement...after few hours of change. Hope to get back to where I was....will post again with update!! Best advice I've gotten here on MWO..is to "take it slow"....I agree!! I'm sure my MD will agree with this when all is explained....not worred about it!! Later....Panda

[suneelca]

taking baclofen with a benzodiazepine

Yeah, it's all very tricky, and it's H-E-L-L on toast when something goes amiss. I went through something like what you're describing last October when I had just started on Bac and then was getting off of Ativan after four-plus years. I had been through so much medication weirdness over so long that it was just another roller coaster swing.

Have you and your MD worked out a schedule for managing the transitions? I've learned to work very closely with mine ... although it's pretty hit or miss. Still feels better than going it alone. And all we can do here on this board is offer encouragement and support, and what we've experienced. But we all travel our own roads, eh?

Hope you're doing better today? If you can, definitely start your own thread -- must be doubly difficult managing all of this while you also support your daughter.