Delerium from rapid withdrawal

[Otter]

Here is an article about delerium from rapid withdrwal from Baclofen from 2005 in relation to its use for muscle spasm. I think the problem with doing trials with severe alcoholics is that if they are not able to manage themselves properly then they could end up with suicidal tendencies at the end of the trial. In MS treatment Baclofen is administered with an intrathecal pump. I do wonder if there is some way of using this or an implant for Baclofen as is done with Naltrexone in the case of opiate addiction. Of course, the symptoms are easily resolved by reinstating Baclofen dosage.

Delirium Associated With Baclofen Withdrawal: A Review of Common Presentations and Management Strategies -- Leo and Baer 46 (6): 503 -- Psychosomatics

[electron]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

From reading End of My Addiction I got the impression that the reason doctors prescribed the higher doses of baclofen were to avoid the need to use the intrathecal pump.

I just looked up what the intrathecal pump is and found this from the baclofen wikipedia page: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baclofen

[terryk]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

Just a few thoughts because I don't have much spare time right now:

Remember intrathecal baclofen pumps are used to treat back spacisity (a much lower dose of baclofen works more effectively *at the site* of intended action). I suspect high dose baclofen relies on other mechanisms of dopamine and serotonin modulation (in addition to its direct effect on GABA-b receptors) - med journal literature out there hints at this.

The expense of installing and maintaining these pumps is exorbitant (compared to oral dosing) and is definitely not an option for the majority of us out there who are self prescribing from overseas drug distributors. I really don't want to have to try and respond to y'all with your questions of homebrewing IR baclofen pumps. (joke).

lastly, and I've posted this before, there are some patent applications out there for extended release baclofen formulations. XR pills at a higher dose would make baclofen therapy more convenient and probably enable the drug companies to offer a full price alcohol treatment baclofen opposed to the generic.

-tk

[bld213]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

It's true. I ran out twice and both times I ended up in the hospital out of my mind with hallucinations for about 10 days.

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

bld213;978075 wrote: It's true. I ran out twice and both times I ended up in the hospital out of my mind with hallucinations for about 10 days.

It sounds like a 30-minute charge to have a doctor oversee the treatment and prescribe the medication would have saved a ton of money (20 days hospitalization), to say nothing of the terror of hallucinations. You asked on another thread about getting bac online. Dr. Levin is willing to prescribe bac to people (his numbers are posted here in different threads). He's probably going to charge for the consult, but he knowledgeable about this usage of bac and is willing to prescribe in the kinds of numbers that Dr. Ameisen recommends. Bac is waaaaaay cheaper when you can buy it here. I bought 90 10 mg pills this week for $6.

[Greg]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

bld213;978075 wrote: It's true. I ran out twice and both times I ended up in the hospital out of my mind with hallucinations for about 10 days.

I imagine that there could be difficulties in some hospitals when a patient tells a doctor that they have been self-administering very large doses of baclofen for treatment of their own alcoholism, since the treatment is still considered "off label" and the doses used are way above the official maximum daily oral dose guidelines in most countries. If the patient is not believed or the hospital staff are very busy (typical in many hospital emergency rooms) there could indeed be a real problem. Symptoms like hallucinations could be regarded as psychosis or street drug induced psychosis if the patient's story isn't taken into account. Hopefully carrying some sort of pre-written medical card stating the fact of regular high-dose baclofen ingestion could avoid such misunderstandings.

This is yet another reason why treatment of alcoholism with high-dose baclofen needs to become accepted medical practice!

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

Greg, I think that the best way to get baclofen into "accepted medical practice" is to approach physicians regarding it, and not online pharmacies.

[Lo0p]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

Topsy-Turvy-Tracy;978092 wrote: Greg, I think that the best way to get baclofen into "accepted medical practice" is to approach physicians regarding it, and not online pharmacies.

Hey if you've got the cash or the insurance and the time to interview and make appointments with ten different doctors I'd say go for it!

[Lo0p]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

Greg;978089 wrote: I imagine that there could be difficulties in some hospitals when a patient tells a doctor that they have been self-administering very large doses of baclofen for treatment of their own alcoholism, since the treatment is still considered "off label" and the doses used are way above the official maximum daily oral dose guidelines in most countries. If the patient is not believed or the hospital staff are very busy (typical in many hospital emergency rooms) there could indeed be a real problem.

It was just one experience but that very same emergency situation happened to me. They RX'ed me bac from the hospital pharmacy at the dose that I stated no questions asked. Details here: https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...tal-41433.html

[inde72]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

commentary only.

Lo0p;978098 wrote: It was just one experience but that very same emergency situation happened to me. They RX'ed me bac from the hospital pharmacy at the dose that I stated no questions asked. Details here: https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...tal-41433.html

lo0p: Thanks for highlighting this, it is a risk I should plan ? for ? when my bac FINALLY arrives.

btw: your graphs; and progress are enlightening.

E,

[Lo0p]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

bld213;978065 wrote: I haven't ordered Baclofen online in awhile and when I did it was from Inhouse. Turns out Inhouse no longer ships to the US so I'm going to try Goldpharma. From the posts here they seem to be the fastest. My question is which brand do most order? I was thinking the "Baclofen-ratiopharm 25mg" or the "Baclofen awd 25 100 tbl." I take four us Walmart generic 20mg (80mg) a day if that helps. I just have no insurance and with the price of pills and a doctor visit it would be cheaper to get them online. Thanks.

Topsy-Turvy-Tracy;978081 wrote: It sounds like a 30-minute charge to have a doctor oversee the treatment and prescribe the medication would have saved a ton of money (20 days hospitalization), to say nothing of the terror of hallucinations. You asked on another thread about getting bac online. Dr. Levin is willing to prescribe bac to people (his numbers are posted here in different threads). He's probably going to charge for the consult, but he knowledgeable about this usage of bac and is willing to prescribe in the kinds of numbers that Dr. Ameisen recommends. Bac is waaaaaay cheaper when you can buy it here. I bought 90 10 mg pills this week for $6.

It sounds like bld213 has a prescription but price is an important consideration for them. Probably along with what Tracy pointed out.

There are other considerations too though. Another just off the top of my head is privacy.

A lot of people don't want alcoholism on their medical records. And for very good reason too! Ever tried to get a life insurance policy with alcoholism on your medical record? You can't!!! You don't get rated. There isn't an increase in premium. You just plain can't get a policy with alcoholism on your medical record. I have friends that have tried. It's a freakin' injustice for sure, but we can't do anything about it!

There are a lot of considerations. Information is good. In the end it should be a personal decision.

inde72;978116 wrote: lo0p: Thanks for highlighting this, it is a risk I should plan ? for ? when my bac FINALLY arrives.

btw: your graphs; and progress are enlightening.

E,

Thanks inde72!

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

I couldn't agree more, Loop. The whole insurance system really sucks. But sooner or later, you do wind up in the system (at least in the US - I don't think it works the same elsewhere).

Here it is: We have a whole mentality on this forum about ordering online and devising a method based on a book - or on what someone's wife's sister's husband's doctor said - or what people, who have never even been on baclofen, post about baclofen. I do intend to counter that not-very-good access to medication, rather dreadful information sources and far-from-ideal mindset regarding this drug with another way to do it, that also has disadvantages.

I don't much care if it pisses people off.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Delerium from rapid withdrawal

If you are in the US and the reforms are not undone by the next group in power then we will have the right to purchase insurance regardless of preexisting conditions. This will be a good thing in this regard.