Bac and Binging

[Greg]

Bac and Binging

Publius;968782 wrote: Greg are you a baclofen case? I know the feeling I've waded in the water and ended up in the deep end too many times. I'm curious to know if you are indeed working with baclofen if you still feel that that would be an possibility. If not, I'm quite confident that from my own experience that wading in that water never ends up with being able to stay there.

Hi, no I'm not one of those who stopped drinking using high-dose baclofen or baclofen up to any switch level. I did try it but I found that I just couldn't get a proper sleep if I took a sizeable dose before bed, and that is the time I always used to drink. That is the time I get the worst alcohol cravings. I found that constant insomnia felt as bad as the drinking (in my case) and made my depression unmanageable. I have used much lower doses of baclofen in the afternoons just as a mild anti-anxiety and anti-craving drug however. I used the much more 'unsavoury' (to some) method of cannabis substitution plus alprazolam (Xanax) to stop drinking. I had tried detoxes using benzos many times before and had been to numerous AA meetings but had not stayed sober for long (previous longest was 2 months). I had also been to alcohol counsellors and shrinks and tried most antidepressants. The cannabis substitution was my idea, not something I read about or something recommended to me, and I'd be very hesitant recommending it to anyone else. Cannabis has started producing several unwanted next-day aftereffects in me and it's not an exact substitute for the desired feelings that alcohol used to produce, in fact it doesn't really give me a sense of euphoria or much anxiety reduction. I had simply turned to it out of desperation due to nothing else being helpful!

[AllyB]

Bac and Binging

I was wondering if anyone who is on baclofen and considering moderate drinking has thought about also doing the Sinclair method on those occasions? Take the baclofen, titrate up, hit the switch, come back down and then once at the maintenance level, take a naltrexone an hour before drinking.

[Light Of Daz]

Bac and Binging

Here's a related study re: naltrexone, baclofen, MPEP (? new one to me) & binge drinking that was just published. Again with just mice, and similar positive results to the already published/known ones.

Elsevier

Abstract
Drinking to intoxication or binge drinking is a hallmark characteristic of alcohol abuse. Although hard to model in rodents, the scheduled high alcohol consumption (SHAC) procedure generates high, stable ethanol intake and blood ethanol concentrations in mice to levels consistent with definitions of binge drinking. The purpose of the present studies was to determine the effects of pharmacological manipulation of the opioidergic, glutamatergic, and γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA)ergic systems on binge drinking with the SHAC procedure. Parallel manipulations were conducted in mice trained in operant self-administration of either sucrose or ethanol. For the SHAC procedure, genetically heterogeneous Withdrawal Seizure Control mice were given varying periods of fluid access, with a 30-min ethanol session every third day (total of seven). Mice were pretreated intraperitoneally with naltrexone (0, 0.6, or 1.25mg/kg), baclofen (0, 2.5, or 5.0mg/kg), or 2-methyl-6-(phenylethynyl)-pyridine (MPEP; 0, 3.0, or 10.0mg/kg) before each ethanol session. For the operant self-administration procedure, separate groups of C57BL/6 mice were trained to complete a single response requirement (16 presses on the active lever) to gain 30min of access to an ethanol or a sucrose solution. Mice received pretreatments of the same doses of naltrexone, MPEP, or baclofen before the self-administration sessions, with saline injections on intervening days. Naltrexone produced a dose-dependent decrease in binge drinking, and the highest dose also significantly decreased operant self-administration of ethanol and sucrose. Both doses of baclofen significantly decreased binge alcohol consumption, but the higher dose also tended to decrease water intake. The highest dose of baclofen also significantly decreased operant self-administration of sucrose. MPEP (10mg/kg) significantly decreased binge alcohol consumption and sucrose self-administration. These results indicate that manipulation of the opioidergic, glutamatergic, and GABAergic systems significantly decreased binge drinking.

[reneesmiles]

Bac and Binging

I take a Baclofen/Naltrexone combo and cannot get drunk.

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

I know that. I can get to a nice mellow plateau but cannot get 'off my face' drunk. Sort of defeats the purpose (of drinking).

[AllyB]

Bac and Binging

ignominous;975507 wrote: I can get to a nice mellow plateau but cannot get 'off my face' drunk. Sort of defeats the purpose (of drinking).

Isn't the nice mellow plateau the reason most people drink?

[PhoenixRising]

Bac and Binging

AllyB;975626 wrote: Isn't the nice mellow plateau the reason most people drink?

Most people, yes. Alcoholics, no. I prefer to get shit faced given the choice.

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Bac and Binging

I like the mellow plateau because it leads to where I want to go - la la land.

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

I like the mellow but then I'm rested enough for the excitement. Or maybe I just want to keep on enhancing the mellow feeling.

[BradyKelly]

Bac and Binging

Greg;968845 wrote: The cannabis substitution was my idea, not something I read about or something recommended to me, and I'd be very hesitant recommending it to anyone else.

At least, for me, a cannabis high means much healthier eating than an alcohol high. :H

I also find getting to sleep easier.

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

I can't do that I get anxiety/paranoid.

[tiptronic_ct]

Bac and Binging

ignominous;976754 wrote: I can't do that I get anxiety/paranoid.

More so than usual??? :H:H:H

[BradyKelly]

Bac and Binging

ignominous;976754 wrote: I can't do that I get anxiety/paranoid.

I do too, but it's normally short term and I surf it out. I find music helps a lot to drown out those questioning 'voices' that arise in my head to make me paranoid or anxious, but either way, an hour later I'm hungry then I'm sleepy.

One of the worst times for me to have a spliff though is early morning, during withdrawals from a heavy night or binge. Then it's straight absolute terror, not just paranoia. I've only done that once and that once was a valuable lesson to not do it again.

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

Much more, this is me in recovery!

LOL

It was v hard typing those 3 letters

[Lo0p]

Bac and Binging

Publius;968630 wrote: Hey couldn't find a thread that discusses this situation specifically. The way I've always drank is that once I start, I don't stop until I black out and pass out, almost without fail, making life a miserable endeavor. Many successes I've read about with Bac enable people to drink in moderation. What sensation is there on baclofen that once you start drinking you don't lose your inhibitions and drink your heart out?[Bold mine.] If any successes out there have any input on the subject I'd appreciate it.
My dad makes the most amazing pork baby back ribs in the world. Hands down, no competitors. They're to die for. He slow cooks them for like 4 hours over water. He's got a secret dry rub that maybe one day he'll pass on to me. Maybe.

He likes to cook them about three times a year for my sisters and I and my mom and all of our friends. Nobody misses his barbecues. He cooks up like 8 racks. For dinner I eat a whole one, along with all the sides that we make: mashed potatoes, corn blah blah blah you name it. Then about an hour later we break out the ice cream and cake. We go to town on that. Then about two hours later I go to the fridge, pull out another half rack and warm it up and eat it, thoroughly and intensely enjoying every single little last succulent bite.

Then I go to sleep. At about 1 am I wake up and just effing need some more! So I go to the fridge and pull out another half rack and warm it up and eat it along with whatever else I can get my hands on without making so much noise that I start to wake other people up. Damn that $hit is good. I am full to the brim. If I ate another bite I'd burst.

So I go outside and smoke my last cigarette for the night and go to the fridge to grab a swig of diet soda (yes diet :H) before I go to sleep. And the I see them. Another two full racks of baby backs sitting there on the plate. My stomach almost turns. I am so fugging satiated and stuffed I can't imagine taking another bite. I turn my head to the side so as not to even look at them because I don't want to, close the fridge and go to bed perfectly content.

That is the sensation I feel 95% of the time after having a drink or two these days.

This one might hit closer to home depending on whether or not you can identify with this:

I'd characterize my former self as a nightly binger (whatever that means :nutso. I used to drink every night to the point of oblivion. I suppose half the nights I never found oblivion until it hit me before I realized it and I passed out. I'd remember crawling into bed only about the other half of the time (I think :H).

But those times that I do remember going to sleep, trust me, I had extra alcohol on hand just in case that much wasn't enough. What would usually happen was, after I chased and found my dragon and was in bliss (oblivion), I'd look over at whatever was left in my bottle and think "uggh. You're good dude." And then I'd crawl in my bed and go to never never land.

I was perfectly content and satiated.

That is the sensation I feel 95% of the time after having a drink or two these days.

Or for that matter, at any time whether I'm drinking or not, at the thought of having any beverage with alcohol in it.

AllyB;968919 wrote: I was wondering if anyone who is on baclofen and considering moderate drinking has thought about also doing the Sinclair method on those occasions? Take the baclofen, titrate up, hit the switch, come back down and then once at the maintenance level, take a naltrexone an hour before drinking.

I guess I should have a disclaimer under everything I write. I use baclofen and TSM and always have done so for about a year now. I take a naltrexone before I drink every time I drink.