Bac and Binging

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

Alcohol enhances your feeling of satisfaction but only up to 2 drinks.
Thanks for your insights.

[RedThread12]

Bac and Binging

With baclofen I never get the "craving" sensation - the one that made me keep on and on and on . . . you know, THAT sensation. Instead, I notice that about 1/2 a glass of wine satisfies whatever urge to drink that I have. If I keep on drinking, after 2 glasses I start feeling the way I feel when I know that I'll wake up "knowing" that I drank last night and not feeling as great as I would if I stop then. So I stop then. I've asked my friends if this is how it works for them, and by gawd, it seems that's the case.

From reading through these boards for over a year, it is clear that it doesn't work that way for everyone - I've seen lots of posts from people who drank huge amounts "through" the baclofen. Some of them backed down and then started again (Moglor's thread comes to mind) . . . this whole scenario seems quite treacherous to me so I am grateful that it didn't work out that way for me.

I think you're question is crucial for everyone mapping out their baclofen path.

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

Tip Looking back.......... retrospect..............

Your last comment nay have been a joke rather than a rapier stab.

Maybe I was on a no laughing day!

[tiptronic_ct]

Bac and Binging

ignominous;978492 wrote: Tip Looking back.......... retrospect..............

Your last comment nay have been a joke rather than a rapier stab.

Maybe I was on a no laughing day!

It was a joke, indeed.

I should learn my lesson and limit my less serious posts to the appropriate threads

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

No man It was my mistake.

Thanks for being real

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

Sorry

[Publius]

Bac and Binging

Lo0p;978165 wrote:
That is the sensation I feel 95% of the time after having a drink or two these days.

that's awesome, something I'm looking forward to you have no idea.

Lo0p;978165 wrote: I'd characterize my former self as a nightly binger (whatever that means ). I used to drink every night to the point of oblivion. I suppose half the nights I never found oblivion until it hit me before I realized it and I passed out. I'd remember crawling into bed only about the other half of the time (I think ).
that's me in a nutshell! (damn we really are similar in our habits)

Lo0p;978165 wrote: I use baclofen and TSM and always have done so for about a year now. I take a naltrexone before I drink every time I drink

The Nal before you drink, how do you know it's not just the bac working its magic? I suppose if it ain't broke don't fix it, but have you ever drank on bac without the nal? The word on the street is that the bac would have the same effect, and that nal is subsequently unnecessary for moderation, because the bac has leveled out your GABA levels, and you won't have that uncontrollable urge anymore as the ethanol isn't helping you feel normal, because for all intents and purposes, you brain is finally at normal function (at long last).

Lo0p;978165 wrote: So I go outside and smoke my last cigarette

I heard bac is supposed to quell cravings for all the crutches, have you noticed anything with nicotine? Dr. L, or "God's right hand man" (hah, I love that :H) said it would probably get rid of any need for nicotine as well, which was something I was looking forward to, as it's a nasty ass habit

-P

[Lo0p]

Bac and Binging

Publius;978924 wrote: The Nal before you drink, how do you know it's not just the bac working its magic? I suppose if it ain't broke don't fix it, but have you ever drank on bac without the nal? The word on the street is that the bac would have the same effect, and that nal is subsequently unnecessary for moderation, because the bac has leveled out your GABA levels, and you won't have that uncontrollable urge anymore as the ethanol isn't helping you feel normal, because for all intents and purposes, you brain is finally at normal function (at long last).
Although I probably wouldn't state it using the same words and in the same way I did in April, my thoughts on that subject can be found here: https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...light=band-aid

The "band-aid" in red is just a result of the search term I used to find the thread. It doesn't appear that way if you view the thread normally.


Publius;978924 wrote: I heard bac is supposed to quell cravings for all the crutches, have you noticed anything with nicotine? Dr. L, or "God's right hand man" (hah, I love that :H) said it would probably get rid of any need for nicotine as well, which was something I was looking forward to, as it's a nasty ass habit

Yeah I read that in Ameisen's patent application. If I recall correctly I spit my mouthful of diet coke on my monitor when I did read it. For me, and others, it hasn't helped at all.

[Publius]

Bac and Binging

-Lo0p

Interesting thoughts, as always. I don't want to be a pain, but given your drinking graph, it seems like until you hit your bac switch, there was no real change in your drinking habits, but as soon as you did *poof* all gone...I guess I'm just trying to figure out if, since your habits changed right after the switch, and TSM hadn't done much until that point, why you are sure that your change in habits is attributed to TSM, and the bac is only a band-aid, not the reason you are cured. I know I'm probably being annoying by probing this issue further, and i'm sure you may have addressed this already (sorry if you have, I couldn't find it tho), I'm only trying to figure out the best route for me to take, and if I should be considering TSM and bac in tandem.
I don't know that much about TSM, other than the basic idea of taking nal 1 hour before you drink, as opposed to once a day in the mornings, and it blocks endorphins released during alcohol use, so maybe I'm just being ignorant, but from what I know based on what you've already told me, I'm having a hard time extrapolating any other conclusion that it was all the bac that made all the difference for you, not the nal. Again, sorry if I missed something obvious and am just being thick headed, but I really am just trying to figure out how to get well. :thanks:

[Sunnyvalenting]

Bac and Binging

For me it was the bac and only the bac. And i believe I am "cured". I was put on both but had severe nausea with the nal. (they had told me to take it daily at noon). I also wanted my endorphins back! the way I see it we all "know" that drinking became a bad idea. We all tried to mod or quit but failed.The bac gives us our self control back by blocking the cravings, thus tipping the scales in favor of our higher cortical function (judgement and discipline!). For me the definition of addiction is drinking in spite of knowing it is a bad idea. I am cured when i no longer do that. I no longer do that so I am cured. I don't think of it as a "bandaid" at all.
Sun

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

Bac -

Time out from alcohol induced blinkered vision - able to act more logically, reasonably - stop drinking - work out the underlying problems that made you want to get away from reality in the first place (Rewiring the brain)

This last part requires work. For me the task seems so daunting and another attempt is doomed to failure that I sometimes have the devil on my shoulder telling me that alcoholic faze is the easier and only way to go.

However that route, not only seems doomed to failure, as well but is "in fact' doomed to failure. What am I supposed to do. With this window of opportunity the only logical move is to try again.

I think Nal possibly is the band aid that prevents the symptoms of the dis ease from showing themselves in alcohol/substance abuse. But I suspect they will find another avenue to show themselves eventually

[Lo0p]

Bac and Binging

I am keeping my mind open to possibilities other than just what I stated in that thread. I must always do this, please refer below to my ridiculous signature. But so far that's the square I'm placing my chips on. And so far, it's working very well for me.

Publius;979585 wrote: Interesting thoughts, as always. I don't want to be a pain, but given your drinking graph, it seems like until you hit your bac switch, there was no real change in your drinking habits, but as soon as you did *poof* all gone...I guess I'm just trying to figure out if, since your habits changed right after the switch, and TSM hadn't done much until that point, why you are sure that your change in habits is attributed to TSM, and the bac is only a band-aid, not the reason you are cured. I know I'm probably being annoying by probing this issue further, and i'm sure you may have addressed this already (sorry if you have, I couldn't find it tho), I'm only trying to figure out the best route for me to take, and if I should be considering TSM and bac in tandem.
It isn't annoying at all. Progress on TSM can be very deceptive. I can't remember if I was on week 12 or 16 when I started baclofen. The following is a cut and paste of a thread I made on the TSM forums in late August of 2009 showing just how deceptive progress on TSM can appear at different stages:

Lo0p in another forum wrote: I hope you don't mind bob.

This is bob3d's progress through week 23 graphed:


Beautiful extinction curve, exactly what we are all hoping for and expecting.

This is bob3d's progress through week 15 graphed:


Let's keep our chins up no matter how long it takes or what the situation may look like right now.

Q Week 25(?):


Week 17:


Week 13:


I can't wait to do Virgil's and everybody elses!

What is being graphed is drinks consumed/week. You can tell it's old because I haven't taken my excel skills quite to the level of excelitude that they are at now.

[Doctor M]

Bac and Binging

This is mainly a reply to the dosing and frequency thread which unfortunately been closed now. One difficulty of finding the right dose is that it varies a lot in patients. In my experience this depends on a number of factors: their genetic makeup, how heathy their body (kidneys and liver) is and how much alcohol they are used to drink (regularly / in binges). I therefore completely disagree with prescribing fixed regimes as "Otter" did in his post. In my experience the individual dose necessary can vary between 2.5 and 70 mg and the daily dose between 15 and 400 mg (my experience; 560 mg per day is the highest I have heard of). The correct dose for each patient is best found together with an experienced doctor and a regime for one person can not be easily used to treat another. This would cause more problems than help.
With regards to the question here whether you can drink in moderation on baclofen, I strongly feel that in anybody with an alcohol problem complete abstinence is and should be the aim. This is certainly true for every patient I have met. Nevertheless, there are some people for whom after some time (usually years) a rare single drink (e.g. to toast at the wedding of your daughter) would be OK and has been achieved with the help of baclofen. These people will know themselves very well and the effect baclofen has on them and they might take an extra small dose before such a tempting event.
Hope this helps and sorry for mis posting the comment to the other thread here, but I felt I had to clarify this.
Dr. M

[Choochie]

Bac and Binging

Interesting Post by Dr. M re Balcofen

Doctor M;979697 wrote: This is mainly a reply to the dosing and frequency thread which unfortunately been closed now. One difficulty of finding the right dose is that it varies a lot in patients. In my experience this depends on a number of factors: their genetic makeup, how heathy their body (kidneys and liver) is and how much alcohol they are used to drink (regularly / in binges). I therefore completely disagree with prescribing fixed regimes as "Otter" did in his post. In my experience the individual dose necessary can vary between 2.5 and 70 mg and the daily dose between 15 and 400 mg (my experience; 560 mg per day is the highest I have heard of). The correct dose for each patient is best found together with an experienced doctor and a regime for one person can not be easily used to treat another. This would cause more problems than help.
With regards to the question here whether you can drink in moderation on baclofen, I strongly feel that in anybody with an alcohol problem complete abstinence is and should be the aim. This is certainly true for every patient I have met. Nevertheless, there are some people for whom after some time (usually years) a rare single drink (e.g. to toast at the wedding of your daughter) would be OK and has been achieved with the help of baclofen. These people will know themselves very well and the effect baclofen has on them and they might take an extra small dose before such a tempting event.
Hope this helps and sorry for mis posting the comment to the other thread here, but I felt I had to clarify this.
Dr. M

This is interesting............

[ignominous]

Bac and Binging

Hi Doc

Nice to have you hear with us.

I think the Dosage and Frequency thread being shut down was a mistake. I don't think that the majotiry of people were about to rush out and try to put those extreem methods into action. Having said that, maybe a couple of people would have. Its a pity because it was a source of new and interesting information.

I'm aiming for abstinence but also don't want to have to refuse a drink on certain occasions.