Optimax

[Otter]

Has anyone heard of or tried Optimax? It is L-Trypotophan and is now being prescribed. I think it must be good for depression related to alcoholism as it changes into seratonin which is depleted by alcohol use. Apparently it is being marketed for depression for which SSRI's have not worked.

[sunshinedaisies]

Optimax

Sorry Otter - have never heard of it. Maybe someone else has?

sun xx

[Guest]

Optimax

I thought Optimax were that pain-in-the-neck lazer-eye-surgery company who wouldn't leave me alone!

[sunshinedaisies]

Optimax

LOL UK !!!!

[beatle]

Optimax

L-tryptophan is available over the counter in many countries now, after a scare (instigated by the drug companies -- in my opinion) was revealed to be unwarranted.

It was prescribed as a sleep medicine and for depression for years in the U.S. before the "scare". It has been shown to be effective for many things related to sleep and depressive disorders -- and no, I don't have the research at my fingertips, and no, I don't have any medical authority, this is not to be construed as medical advice, etc.)

As UK blonde said, if you google Optimax, the laser eye surgery is what comes up first.

But, on pqge 3, this comes up:

Optimax (Tryptophan): A guide to Optimax drug

And if you google Optimax tryptophan you will get a lot more to think about.

for example:

L-Tryptophan (Optimax; Merck, London ... )

I can't help but wonder if optimax is an attempt to make money out of something that already exists out there for not much money...

[Otter]

Optimax

Optimax

Hi

Yes, thanks for that.

I thought there might be someone who was using L-tryptophan to treat depression associated with withdrawal.

I think what has happened is that the SSRI industry is in trouble and there is some information that they make alcoholism worse and coming off them can lead to severe depression.

I wonder whether Dr. Ameisen has had problems with people in his study attempting suicide because they are extremely low on seratonin. When I first heard about Baclofen I doubted it because it is one thing to stop drinking but another to sort out all the problems that lead to drinking. If one starts drinking to cope with depression, ie., stress leading to depletion of seratonin levels, then surely one needs L-tryptophan to get well.

beatle;969619 wrote: L-tryptophan is available over the counter in many countries now, after a scare (instigated by the drug companies -- in my opinion) was revealed to be unwarranted.

It was prescribed as a sleep medicine and for depression for years in the U.S. before the "scare". It has been shown to be effective for many things related to sleep and depressive disorders -- and no, I don't have the research at my fingertips, and no, I don't have any medical authority, this is not to be construed as medical advice, etc.)

As UK blonde said, if you google Optimax, the laser eye surgery is what comes up first.

But, on pqge 3, this comes up:

Optimax (Tryptophan): A guide to Optimax drug

And if you google Optimax tryptophan you will get a lot more to think about.

for example:

L-Tryptophan (Optimax; Merck, London ... )

I can't help but wonder if optimax is an attempt to make money out of something that already exists out there for not much money...

[Greg]

Optimax

I remember reading that L-tryptophan is the least abundant of the amino acids we get from our diet. I don't know if that automatically means it is actually deficient in some people however. I also read that it has to compete with several of the other amino acids in food to reach the brain, which is why it's supposed to be taken by itself as a supplement (without any food or other amino acids). I'm sure a lot more about this is in the Holistic section, which I'll be checking myself due to my own depression issues. I'm pretty sure that serotonin can only be made from tryptophan, and our bodies can't make tryptophan from any other substance, so supplements of it would logically seem to be helpful for depression. Another amino acid I read about is L-tyrosine, which apparently is used to make norepinephrine and dopamine.

[Otter]

Optimax

Depression

Yes, that is right. You have to take L-tryptophan with some other vitamins, like B6.
I am just not sure that taking it from a health store is a great idea so I was interested in the pharmaceutical product. If Ameisen is right and AL is brought on by anxiety then that stress would also deplete seratonin levels.

I just wonder whether his background as a cardiologist lets him down. Ok Baclofen worked for him but he came out of his alcoholism to a life in which he had some status, money, support and he never mentioned that he suffered from depression as a youth, just anxiety. For a lot of people who have depressive illnesses I have to wonder whether they need additional therapy to deal with that, apart from talking therapies.

[hangingoninFL]

Optimax

You should take 5 HTP rather than tryptophan, L-tryp is a precursor to 5 HTP which is a precursor to seratonin:

5HTP - The Natural Alternative to Prozac: Chapter 2

[Otter]

Optimax

5-HTP WARNING!

hangingoninFL;970541 wrote: You should take 5 HTP rather than tryptophan, L-tryp is a precursor to 5 HTP which is a precursor to seratonin:

5HTP - The Natural Alternative to Prozac: Chapter 2

Here is what I read about 5-HTP on the Health Recovery Center website where Tryptophan is used to treat alcoholism and depression:


The reasons for the potential risks of 5-HT were brought to our attention by Steven B Harris, M.D. He explained that: 5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-HT) is one step closer to serotonin than tryptophan. The Sequence is as follows.

Tryptophan > 5-Hydroxytryptophan > Serotonin

Based on the above metabolic sequence it would appear desirable to use 5-HT instead of tryptophan since 5-HT more readily converts to serotonin. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that is often deficient in the brains of depressed people. Boosting serotonin can alleviate depression in some people and reduce carbohydrate cravings in others, thus inducing weight loss. Here's why 5-HT will not work for most Americans, and could be lethal to some people: The blood-brain barrier does not allow significant absorption of serotonin from the blood. The brain does have a large neutral amino acid pump that freely allows tryptophan and 5-HT into the bran for conversion into serotonin. The process by which 5-H is converted into serotonin is called decarboxylation. If decarboxylation occurs before 5-HT is absorbed by the brain, than blood levels of serotonin will elevate significantly, but very little serotonin will enter the brain. When Europeans take 5-HT, they are often prescribed the dopa decarboxylase inhibitor carbidopa that prevents 5-HT from being converted into serotonin until it reaches the brain. Americans do not take carbidopa with 5-HT and the result is possible serotonin overload in the blood, with virtually no serotonin reaching the brain. We will describe later the dangers of overloading the blood with serotonin. Americans taking 5-HT are more vulnerable to blood serotonin overload because, unlike most Europeans who are vitamin deficient, Americans who use 5-HT usually take large doses of vitamin B6 as well. Vitamin B6 rapidly converts 5-HT into serotonin before it can reach the brain. Even when combined with carbidopa, high levels of vitamin B6 will break through the carbidopa barrier and insure that 5-HT converts into serotonin in the blood before the it can reach the brain The multiple health benefits of vitamin B6 are too important, we believe, to recommend that people avoid taking vitamin B6 just to enable them to try using 5-HT to boost brain serotonin levels. This may be difficult anyway without also taking carbidopa, which is only available in the US. as a prescription drug. At the very best, those who take vitamin B6 with 5-HT are probably wasting their money. Unfortunately, high serotonin in the blood in not benign. Anyone suffering from heart disease should avoid 5-HT because the elevation in blood serotonin could cause coronary artery spasm an/or abnormal platelet aggregation, which are risk factors for sudden death heart attack. Here is the real frightening aspect of serotonin overload, as described by Dr. Harris: "Serotonin causes not only harmless flushing and diarrhea, but people with serotonin secreting tumors (hindgut carcinoids) also have problems with fibrosis of the endocardium and valves of their right hearts with can cause heart failure. The effect can also be seen with dietary intake of only modest amounts of serotonin, and there has actually been described in the medical literature, a tribe of South Sea islanders with right heart fibrosis as a result of eating green banana mush, which poisons them with its serotonin content" Dr. Harris goes on to state that people who ingest several hundred milligrams a day of 5-HT with B6 and without a decarboxylase inhibitor would expect to see urinary excretion of a serotonin metabolite in the same range as a person with a serotonin secreting tumor. Based upon Dr. Harris' report the Foundation had its analysts conduct an extensive review of the medical literature and have come to the following preliminary conclusions. 1) For 5-HT to boost serotonin levels in the brain it is necessary to: a)Take 50 mg of carbidopa before each 5-HT dose. Carbidopa is a prescription drug. b)Limit vitamin B6 supplementation to a small dose taken at least six hours before or after 5-HT carbidopa dosing. c) Have a urinary test to measure a metabolite of serotonin called 5-hydroxy indoleacetic acid (5-HIAA) on a regular basis. As long as 5-HIAA levels are normal, than 5-HT intake would be safe. 2) Those with existing cardiovascular disease, including atrial fibrillation, coronary artery disease, congestive heart failure, cardiomyopathy, valvular disease or pulmonary hypertension may want to avoid 5-HT completely. One Foundation analyst felt that 81 mg a day of aspirin and 500 mg a day of magnesium would reduce the risk of 5-HT inducing a heart attack. 3)The effects of 5-HT by itself elevating blood serotonin levels are extremely individualistic. Some people may not experience any blood serotonin increase, while others could suffer from a lethal serotonin peripheral overload. 4) Despite the potential dangers of 5-HT, most FDA-approved drugs to treat depression and obesity appear to be more toxic. 5) At the time of this printing, we have not been able to verify whether 5-HT induced serotonin overload would cause fibrosis of the aortic valve and destruction of the heart muscle. Based on the potential health risks of ingesting 5-HIT, Bio Recovery has decided not to offer it tat this time. we encourage anyone seeking to use 5-HT to follow strictly the above protocol for safe 5-HT supplementation. We'll post further evidence regarding 5-HTP as soon as it becomes available. This warning applies only to 5-hydroxy tryptophan (5-HT), not tryptophan itself. Published studies show that tryptophan does not readily convert into serotonin in the blood, but that 5-HT does, since 5-HT can convert directly into serotonin while tryptophan has to go through one additional metabolic step which protects against blood serotonin overload.


I will stick to Tryptophan.

[individualnz]

Optimax

Hmmm interesting stuff. How readily available is Tryptophan, I have not had much success in obtaining it. Please keep us updated on your progress with Tryp. I for one am extremely curious after reaching a point where it seems nothing works for my mood any more. Regardless of whether I drink or not....

regards Indy

[Otter]

Optimax

You can get it over the net as a health food and it is also now marketed as Optimax as an anti-depressant. I bought some made by Viridian in the UK. It is quite expensive. It takes a few weeks to kick in I think and it has no side effects.

[individualnz]

Optimax

How effective to they think it is. I have been trying SAMe and 5htp, but to no avail, (sigh)

Will check it out, Thanks Otter