Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

[ignominous]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

So back to why Tip generously started this thread.

Should we be tapering off after we reach the switch or should we maintain the switch level indefinitely.

I want to do the right thing when I get there but
1) don't feel comfortable going against the first hand experience of people here and/equally
2)don't want to go against the advice of the medical profession,
who presumably have better/up to date information than us but refuse to share it with us (for whatever reasons)

[Sunnyvalenting]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

I am unaware of any studies which will answer the question so you are left with case studies. Here is mine:
after several weeks in the 100/day range I slowly tapered to 20-30/day without any appreciable cravings. There I stay for a few more months. I will consider tapering to ?zero after the holidays. I want a good solid year AF before then just so I have even more confidence and experience of abstinence.
Sunny

[ignominous]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

I am coming to the conclusion that the magical switch is just the name given to the epiphany we get when we realise we don't really need or want alcohol in our lives.

For some of us it takes longer for the full impact of this information to get acted upon. As you say Sunny your epiphany happened on a relatively low dose. With the help of a little will power this will help you to remain AF while you rewire your brain. During that time and you think a year should be enough you are intending to take Bac as a safety net should your will fail you. I hope that this will be enough and you will truly be free.

I think I also had that epiphany when I first started Bac. Right or wrong, because my brain works differently I decided it wasn't enough and I wanted the indifference that comes with the switch. It was almost as if I didn't want to deal with 2 things at the same time:
1) Stopping Al for ever and having to completely restructure my life as well as
2) Concentrating on the thoughts I was able to experience in this quite place in my mind.

I think the results are going to be the same and the method used will vary for individuals.

I would very much like some information from our 'gurus', particularly OA, as to the reasons for the change in protocol.

I could speculate as to why no information is forthcoming but don't think it would be helpful. Only I will say that if Dr Levin is as full of compassion as by all accounts he exhibits then he must surely be taking some interest in this forum. By now he must have heard of MWO enough times to take another look.

Personally I'm still undecided how to proceed when I hit my switch.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

I think, in some ways, I am an exception on these threads. I had already failed at everything else and had committed to a 2 week program 3,000 miles away costing a lot of money. I believe that the very fact that I had that much "skin in the game" helped my motivation considerably. I believe now that it was judgment plus bac that worked for me. Maybe I didn't need all the other stuff they did there at the clinic but I did get "my money's worth and my time's worth". I have subsequently encouraged 5 others in my life to get better as well. 4 of them were "direct hits" and on one the jury is still out but she is making progress.
It is also possible that with my age and perhaps damage to metabolism from years of abuse perhaps I needed the lower dose. I am not aware of any particular parameters which predict success with bac. There is so much we do not know. That is why these forums are so important. We are each a case history of one but if we report honestly we can add incrimentaly to a broader understanding of this drug and its proper and safe use for alcohol dependence. For me the commitment to abstinence has been essential. I do not intend to ever drink again. I will use bac the rest of my life if that is what it takes but if it is not necessary I will be free of that need and concern as well.
Sunny

[Road to Recovery]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

I am tapering off with no cravings - I feel the same towards alcohol as when I hit my switch. I am down to 10mg per day and plan to go off bac completely. I will go back on it if cravings return.

[ignominous]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

Thanks Road. Post again if anything happens................ or doesn't happen.

[ignominous]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

Reg

I feel for you, I really do. Life's a fucker and then........... we die. Your posts show some real insight into what's happening.

Bac is helping you to express this if I'm not wrong.

Now is the time to look for help in addressing the other problem areas in your life. Alcohol was just a bandaid we used to cover our wounds.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

Road,
I, too experience no cravings at a very low dose
Reg, I am sorry you are having to struggle so. Keep it up tho. You haven't "failed" yet, just not found your own solution.
Baclofen cannot make us want to abstain or mod if that is not our sincere goal. It only enhances our ability to act on it and it is not a 100% perfect drug. I mean it doesnt seem to work in everyone.
Several years ago I promised my son I'd keep trying despite the many failures. It sometimes boils down to luck and perserverance in the face of discouraging failures. I hope the bac is at least helping you some. Some are successful by adding the nal to bac. some respond to long term rehab. Some recover "naturally". I hope there is something out there for you.
Sunny

[I-want-to-be-sober]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

I too see no sense at all in staying on the switch dose indefinitely if tapering down to the maintenance dose does the job. I also find it more dangerous: If the body adjusts to very high doses of baclofen and one runs out of the drug for just 1-2 days (which is more likely with high doses) the result can be potentially fatal delirium with seizures.

[ignominous]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

Yeah, that bit about running out of Bac is very worrying.

If it does the job.............
However that is the new protocol that has been suggested vicariously by Dr Levin who is in close contact with Dr Olivier Ameisen.
..............Which seems to suggest that it doesn't do the job

Corkit, Levin, OA or someone who has more information please add something here

[guardian]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

What I have been doing is reducing the amount by virtue of pushing the time back that I take it each day. Similar to what Loop does, but I take separate, increasing doses approaching my typical hours. This may not work as well if you are taking a smallish dose or usually drink all day.

I take 150-175 per day upwards tapering my doses to a peak of 50, 2 hours before I hit the hay. Waking up, I can still "feel" a lot of baclofen in my system, enough to keep my thoughts off of drinking. From there I take 10s to top off the tank until I get to about 4 pm and start tapering my doses up. This allows me to get a little more done throughout the day, and later in the day I beat the half-life by taking enough around my drinking times.

When I do start reducing the total amount I take, it will be in the last dose because I don't need it while I sleep, and I could use more sleep anyway.

-Ian

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

My unsubstantiated theory: If plain ol' people were drinking again after titrating down, why wouldn't Levin just say so? I suspect - because I'm suspicious of secrecy - that someone prominent went on a bender, hence the secrecy and the knee-jerk reaction (and it does look "knee-jerk" to me). More and more, "relapse" is being seen as just part of the process of recovery, not evidence of failure. But I can see how if it applied to someone who pioneered a medically unproven route to recovery and started a whole movement in the process, it would be messier. It doesn't boost confidence if the savior needs saving.

As people have noted throughout, no two baclofen stories are alike, so I am reluctant to buy into the "one size fits all" thinking that requires people to stay at the switch dose - that is a *huge* change in protocol. Especially since it came up quite suddenly and with ZERO explanation, I'm not buying it.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

Ig, I don't know why Levin or anyone else would necessarily check in here. This isn't medicine, it's a dialogue of sorts. I would question their professionalism if they posted here.
I also wonder why we need to know what OA is doing for his personal health. I'm much more concerned about what he's doing (or not) professionally. Unless of course he finds out from personal experience that the rats did indeed eat each other 5 years into it. (sadly, they probably don't live very long, so not a lot of relevant info there.)
Reggie, thank you for posting. It's VERY important, IMHO that we get all of the info, not just the success stories. I'm sorry it's so difficult for you right now.
As to the switch and the time to stay on it, well, I've got nothing.
Keep up the fight.

[ignominous]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

I think 'tapering' in this thread it is generally understood to mean reducing the dose of Bac to a maintenance level after you hit the 'switch'.

LOL guardian but really you should hone up on your reading skills.................or not.

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Baclofen after the Switch - to taper or not to taper

neva eva;987985 wrote: Ig, I don't know why Levin or anyone else would necessarily check in here. This isn't medicine, it's a dialogue of sorts. I would question their professionalism if they posted here.

I would assume any such post was from a sock doc. :H

It's just not the sort of thing an MD would do, especially ones that are already putting their necks out there. And we're too loopy a bunch to try to deal with as a group anyway.