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    Dosage and Frequency

    I thought I would start this thread because I think there may be a misconception about Baclofen dosage.

    From my discussions with a doctor who is using this medication and a community nurse who is visiting people who are using Baclofen, I understand that the key to Baclofen is to keep the right level in the system so as not to crave AL so that it is more important to take regular doses of a smaller amount than to concentrate on getting up to a target amount by taking a lot at a time. The doses should be up to 30 mg spaced evenly through the day with an extra dose before bed and one in the night if you wake up and one first thing. If you have a craving top up an additional 15 mg. Some people are taking 30 mg an hour with a top up of .5 mg if they crave. You can increase at whatever level you feel comfortable with. The guidelines of 10 mg are for neurological patients who can take longer. If you are still drinking, increase the frequency of doses before increasing the individual dose then increase the overall dose at 10 mg a day, or more if you feel comfortable.

    Ameisen's study suggested that people have different trigger levels and it seems this is not dependent strictly on weight but on metabolism.

    The important thing seems to be to keep the level of Baclofen at the right amount so the cravings do not come back and to avoid swings in level of Baclofen in the system. It also does not seem to be terribly important, other than managing side effects, how fast or slow you achieve your correct dosage level. The level of your dosage is what is correct for you. If you come off it then you should go back on at the same level, not try to titrate up slowly from a low amount. The important thing is getting back to your correct dosage as soon as possible.
    BACLOFENISTA

    baclofenuk.com

    http://www.theendofmyaddiction.org





    Olivier Ameisen

    In addiction, suppression of symptoms should suppress the disease altogether since addiction is, as he observed, a "symptom-driven disease". Of all "anticraving medications used in animals, only one - baclofen - has the unique property of suppressing the motivation to consume cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine and d-amphetamine"

    #2
    Dosage and Frequency

    Well put, Otter. Only thing left out is the apparent controversy of how long to stay on the med and at what dose?
    Not knowing to look for a switch I slowly titrated up to about 110/d (divided doses) and then slowly tapered down. I am now on 20 at bedtime essentially to help me sleep. AF since first dose in January 2010. Not sure I "need" it for abstinence but I figure it can't hurt and it does help me fall asleep. Better than adding a sleep med to the mix.
    Thanks for the overview
    Sunny

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      #3
      Dosage and Frequency

      I am relieved to hear that "It also does not seem to be terribly important, other than managing side effects, how fast or slow you achieve your correct dosage level."

      I started off like a bull in a china shop and, in retrospect with some research later, it was probably not the best way!

      However, and my following comments must be taken in the context in which they are given (basically still fairly clueless as to what Baclofen is doing), there does seem to be a build up of Bac in the body.

      Frankly even with a half life of 3 hours, which might be open to debate, I don't think that taking doses on the hour every hour will have a lot of effect on the amount of active Bac in your body compared to taking the dose 4 times a day (my present schedule) or even once or twice a day.

      I'm sure LoOp or someone could illustrate this with a couple of graphs if he's still around.
      Started Baclofen 3/9/10 Hit my switch at 250mg on 21/11/10 3.125mg/Kg

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        #4
        Dosage and Frequency

        I'm fine with 2 doses a day, midday and 6pm. 35 mg per dose. Where I live there are church bells at those times, which helps.

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          #5
          Dosage and Frequency

          I like the dosage schedule.

          I just got home after 1 bot of wine (8pm) and fancied another drink. During that whiskey I noticed that I had 80mg left whereas I had planned to have taken at least 20mg at 5pm. I had forgotten.

          Tell me more about the bells.
          Started Baclofen 3/9/10 Hit my switch at 250mg on 21/11/10 3.125mg/Kg

          Comment


            #6
            Dosage and Frequency

            I decided to give this method a try today. Well, not exactly, but something similar. I've been taking more in the late afternoon/evening, as that's when I usually get cravings (30 mg around 4:30, another 20 between 7 and 8). Some nights it makes me feel really strange though, uncomfortably so. Dehydration gets worse also. So I figured it'd be worth a try to mix it up a bit. As I still haven't received my next shipment of bac, and I don't have very much left, I'm titrating down to make it last as long as possible. I'm going down to 60 today, and if I took 10mg every hour, well, obviously it wouldn't last long! So I'm splitting it up to every 2 1/2 hours or so. Started with my first dose at 7 this morning, and will take it through about 8 tonight. I'll let y'all know how it goes!
            Better Living Through Chemistry

            Switched at 180mgs of Baclofen on 1/31/11, and again on 10/8/11 at 200mgs.

            Could've been a swan on a glassy lake, could've been a gull in a clipper's wake. Could've been a ladybug on a windchime, but she was born a dragonfly.
            ~Clutch

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              #7
              Dosage and Frequency

              I'm seeing my PCP tomorrow and need to know exactly what I'm asking for.

              I want to start on a low dose and go up slow, so here's what I'm thinking (in three doses per day if there are no problems):

              5 - 5 - 5 = 15 x 3 days = 50 (rounding)
              5 - 5 - 10 = 20 x 3 days = 60
              10-10-10 = 30 x 3 days = 90
              20-10-10 = 40 x 3 days = 120
              20-20-20 = 60 x 3 days = 180
              20-30-20 = 70 x 3 days = 210
              20-30-30 = 80 x 3 days = 240

              That gives me three weeks, and if I stay at 80 for another week, I'm gathering that I'm asking for 2630 mg for a one-month supply, so 263 - 10 mg pills of bacoflen. That keeps me at the legal limit she can subscribe (and if I don’t need to go that high, YEA). It may also give me the ability to bill the prescription to insurance, and by then I should have some idea if it's working or not. And, if she agrees, my PCP will be a little educated about a new form of treatment.

              If I need to increase beyond that (and I hope that I don’t), I’ll order online or talk to Dr. Levin again. Does this sound like a workable plan? I realize it’s a slower titration than what a lot of people have, but I’m pretty sensitive to meds.
              * * *

              Tracy

              ?Our freedom can be measured by the number of things we can walk away from.?
              - Vernon Howard

              Comment


                #8
                Dosage and Frequency

                Tracy, I think that sounds like a really good plan. That's very similar to the titration schedule that I used, and which I've seen as recommended by a few others (I think probably by Zenstyle on one of the consolidated Baclofen threads). I think it's better to start slow, especially if you already know that you're sensitive to meds. A lot of times I would find that it was on the 3rd day of a dose that I would have the most side effects (usually just really tired on the 3rd day, but even that stopped happening after awhile). Even with that, I still upped my dose each time after the 3rd day and had no problems.

                I'm also thinking that it might be time to go to my doc and see if I can get a prescription for bac. He was open about prescribing me Topamax, even though he'd never heard of it for alcohol dependence. Telling him about my drinking was the hardest part of that, and now that it's on the table, talking to him about bac should be a lot easier. Even if I can't get a script for the full amount that I'll need to hit the switch, it sure would be nice to supplement what I'm already ordering online, especially now when it looks like I might run out!
                Better Living Through Chemistry

                Switched at 180mgs of Baclofen on 1/31/11, and again on 10/8/11 at 200mgs.

                Could've been a swan on a glassy lake, could've been a gull in a clipper's wake. Could've been a ladybug on a windchime, but she was born a dragonfly.
                ~Clutch

                Comment


                  #9
                  Dosage and Frequency

                  ignominous;974062 wrote:

                  I just got home after 1 bot of wine (8pm) and fancied another drink. During that whiskey I noticed that I had 80mg left whereas I had planned to have taken at least 20mg at 5pm. I had forgotten.

                  .
                  This same exact thing has happened to me. Terrible cravings and then I noticed I had missed a dose. So, what I did was (when I was taking a boatload of pills a day) I would take out all the pills I needed to take for that day (while at work) and put them on my desk. I would do the same at home. That way I could tell if I missed some. It's SO easy to miss some!

                  I also took 50mg too much one day because I *thought* I had missed a dose. Hoo boy! Never again!
                  Go before that fire there, at the altar of your heart
                  That fire of who you really are and be consumed by it fully
                  Surrender everything into the fire of that love until you are one with that love. You ARE that love.
                  Tilak Pyle Altar of the Heart

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Dosage and Frequency

                    Tracy, you might be lucky and find that you don't need to go that high with the Baclofen. I was anticipating having to take big doses but to my ongoing surprise, 70-75mg / day does is enough to cancel out any cravings I might have. My only side effect is a fairly constant level of sleepiness.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Dosage and Frequency

                      What happened when you took 50 mg too much

                      PhoenixRising;974204 wrote: This same exact thing has happened to me. Terrible cravings and then I noticed I had missed a dose. So, what I did was (when I was taking a boatload of pills a day) I would take out all the pills I needed to take for that day (while at work) and put them on my desk. I would do the same at home. That way I could tell if I missed some. It's SO easy to miss some!

                      I also took 50mg too much one day because I *thought* I had missed a dose. Hoo boy! Never again!
                      Hi Phoenix - can you tell me what happened when you took 50 mg too much that day?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Dosage and Frequency

                        Thanks Isolde and See. See, how long have you been on the 70-75 dose?
                        * * *

                        Tracy

                        ?Our freedom can be measured by the number of things we can walk away from.?
                        - Vernon Howard

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Dosage and Frequency

                          I've looked into the half life of Bac a little more.

                          I actually did some rough graphs myself and there would be severe fluctuations with a half life of 3 hours. This is not my experience so I looked further.

                          It seems that the half life lengthens with higher doses. Overdose studies: 1230mg Half life 4.58 hours. 2000mg Half life 8.6 hours.

                          Another point is that the half life of 2-4 hours which seems to be generally accepted refers to the levels in body tissues not the CNS. Many articles I read made a point that the half life in the CNS is longer. I could not find any hard figures for this only that it is longer. This would seem to be the main point as it's the effect on the brain (CNS) that we as alcoholics are concerned with.
                          Started Baclofen 3/9/10 Hit my switch at 250mg on 21/11/10 3.125mg/Kg

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Dosage and Frequency

                            I don't think I am understanding this. If Baclofen has a half life, then is it clear out of your system in 4 hours? So if you forget a dose you are back to where you started? So it doesn't build up in your body tissues, but the changes in the central nervous system require a higher and higher dose until the change occurs?

                            Not that I have to understand the process for it to work, and it does work.

                            I was thinking of front-loading a bit in the afternoon, since 5pm is witching hour, but according to Otter's clinic it is better to keep a constant level.

                            Ah well, I'll just experiment with myself, since I'm ordering drugs from Greece without a doctor I am pretty much an experiment anyway.

                            And hey, I have two days of AF under my belt in a row!! I'm at 85.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Dosage and Frequency

                              For arguments sake lets say the half life of Bac is 4 hours.

                              You take 10mg of Bac now. In 4 hours time you will have 5mg left in your body (blood stream, tissue, plasma. Not including your bladder). That is half of the 10mg.

                              It appears that the half life (the time it takes for half of the Bac to dissapear) is longer in the Central Nervous System (CNS).

                              I agree it seems to work, it would just be nice for us control freaks to understand why!
                              Started Baclofen 3/9/10 Hit my switch at 250mg on 21/11/10 3.125mg/Kg

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