Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

[inde72]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

ignominous: here are links to eft and tapping. I have NO experience with this, and cannot say if effective.

Tapping.com - Free EFT Videos - Emotional Freedom Technique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i33V2EcVlY[/video]]YouTube - Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) Introduction

[Scuba]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

Pain must be endured?

Hi -

I believe that the pain/suffering of not drinking is far greater than the pain/suffering of drinking. I also believe that the health effects (e.g. heart attack, stroke, accidents, etc.) are greatest among those who have stopped drinking abruptly and also for those who have forced themselves into abstinence for a prolonged period. Please read "Keeping Sober" by Nicholas Gorsky and other writings for further details.

Why should anyone have to go to AA when they are 5+ years sober? Until there is a cure --- which BAC may very well be --- should one just keep drinking (in moderation)?

I know this opinion maybe controversial, but until I am convinced otherwise (and I would be easily convinced, but it must be scientific) that is what I feel at this moment.

Responses welcome,

Scuba

[ignominous]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

Spent the last 40 mins trying to discover what its about. No go. Still clueless.
Internet connection too slow for vids in general, you tube is banned, can use a proxy but it slows the connection even more.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

Scuba,
I don't agree. I wouldn't have decided to stop drinking if I didn't feel the overall benefit would be there for me to do so. How does "not drinking" cause pain or suffering? Fill me in.
Sunny

[riv]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

How can one describe the pain / suffering caused by not drinking ?
Perhaps it cannot be described - only experienced.
But it's real enough : the aching for the relaxing and pleasureful filling of some kind of void which opens up for me every evening until I open that bottle......The immediate relief and relaxation which 'the first of the day' induces.......
If only there were not the negative effects, health and other - wise I would happily carry on drinking.......

[moglor]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

I can get where Scuba is coming from. When I'm drinking, I can ignore the horrific emotional pain and depression that pervades my life. When I'm not drinking, that pain shines through pure and cold, and even the boatload of anti-depressants that I'm on only dulls it. That was my excuse for drinking for 18 years.

This goes back to another thread, Sunny, where I mentioned that I think bac helps us get past the alcoholism and through to the deepest reasons for drinking, and you replied that you felt alcohol was the cause of your problems. Obviously, everyone is different in their reasons for drinking, and their reasons for quitting. I think *if* you drink to compensate for emotional pain, recovery is a multifaceted process of quitting the alcohol (bac) and finding (and fixing) the reason for the pain.

Does Scuba really think that continuing to drink is an acceptable alternative? Maybe it is, for him. Maybe it is for some people; Kurt Vonnegut famously referred to smoking as a "fairly honorable form of suicide." This probably applies to drinking as well, so it seems to me that there can't really be true success without addressing the underlying cause. Personally, I don't want to die a slow painful death from liver failure, cancer, or any of the myriad end results of an alcoholic life, and I don't want to live with emotional pain, so I'm taking the steps I need to take to get free of the addiction, which will let me work on getting free of the pain, instead of just anesthetizing it with alcohol.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

Mo, You are right. We are each different. I had gotten to the point where the horrific emotional pain and depression were induced and exacerbated by drinking. I reached the point where I could no longer remember just why I drank, just that I needed to continue. The dysphoria was withdrawal and no longer the broken marriage, they dying father, friend, and brother. Once I was able to get rid of the cravings my life normalized to fairly predictable challenges and blessings. I think anyone can try to trace back to a "core reason" but I think that drinking for me made that reason moot. It became about the drink and not the problem. I went from drinking around my life to living around my drink to having a smaller and smaller life. What a relief. No more time for pain or depression. I have even stopped the antidepressants I had been taking for over 12 years. I wish you all the best. I suggest trying 6 months without alcohol to see what is emotionally possible and then compare the options. You can always go back to drinking, but I won't make that choice. (I say 6 months because it takes that long to normalize our neurotransmitter function after a prolonged assault by alcohol.
Good Days and lives to all
Sunny

[ignominous]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

Sunny
You are also right. Stopping drinking is good and what we should strive for.
I'm happy for you that addiction came due to prolonged abuse and that there were no underlying reasons for you to want to get out of your head on booze apart from your hedonistic joi de vie.

[Scuba]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

End of Week 1

OK - Good Doctor's appointment. He said it OK to go up to 60mg per day and that I will do as the sleepiness has dropped dramatically (still insomnia though). Craving has dropped 50% and I have been AF for several days and hoping for no relapses in the future. Still tapping when I need to. Only other thing is indigestion, but I had that pre-BAC.

Still going to AA 6 mornings per week. Many there seem to have done it without medication but most of them are still suffering from what I can tell, even after being AF for years (why else would one still go to AA?)

Best price for BAC in US (with prescription) is at Costco. About $0.15 per 10mg pill. It cost me $72.50 for my first batch of 100 pills at the University hospital pharmacy. Big difference.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

Great news, Scuba. Keep us posted. Seems you are going to do very well at the lower end of the dosage range. You are luck that you can get it with a prescription. I have a good price through Target.
Sunny

[Titania]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

What is EFT?

[moglor]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

"Emotional Freedom Technique." It's based on acupuncture theory, that tapping on an "energy point" while thinking about a traumatic memory will help reduce the pain associated with that memory.

[Scuba]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

End of Week 2

OK - Good Doctor's appointment again. He said it OK to go up to 90mg per day and that I will do as the sleepiness has gone away (still insomnia though). Craving has stayed the same and I drank once last week but very little (for me that is 200ml 40% vodka). Drinking was associated with an anxiety generating situation.

This week I just started to take a 10 mg pill whenever I felt a crave coming on. Will switch to 20 mg pills this week 4xday.

I had an amazing thing happen last SUN. Before going to bed I realized that I had not thought much about finding/getting alcohol all day.

[Sunnyvalenting]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

Great response, I, too, took an extra 10 for awhile if I was even thinking or worrying that I might drink. I now am more confident that I won't, but I hold that option available still. I believe I will probably stay on the baclofen 20 mg at bedtime indefinitely and carry a few with me at all times "in case". It is just not an option for me to ever drink again! I am so happy that I found my way out!
Sunny

[Scuba]

Scuba's Baclofen Journey/Protocol

OK - up to 100mg/day. Still craving some, but controlled. AF and hoping to stay that way, but --- one day at a time as they say.

As an aside, AA promotes good speaking behavior, as in public speaking. That is an art which can be very valuable whether or not one becomes a politician.