My progress with Baclofen

[beatle]

My progress with Baclofen

Is, maybe the doctor thought that it might get better on its own, or if you did something like you are doing, and surgery seemed too drastic of an intervention at that point? (Or it could just be that she can't justify it for insurance purposes?)

[Isolde]

My progress with Baclofen

beatle;1052165 wrote: Is, maybe the doctor thought that it might get better on its own, or if you did something like you are doing, and surgery seemed too drastic of an intervention at that point? (Or it could just be that she can't justify it for insurance purposes?)

Unfortunately, this is something that can only get worse over time. The bone in the foot is slightly out of place (a bit too high), and doesn't line up with the big toe joint. So when I walk, I'm getting bone rubbing on bone.
What I think the doctor is looking for is to delay surgery as long as possible. A friend of mine suggested getting a second opinion, just in case, which I may do. My dad has a guy I might look into seeing.
The best I can do at this point is try to avoid things that I know cause pain. Luckily the orthotic inserts make that easier. But ideally, I'd like to be able to just take care of it sooner rather than later and not have to deal with it for however many years until surgery is "necessary".

[Guest]

My progress with Baclofen

Orthotics are supposed to be very good, I've had some special supportive insoles made to correct my flat feet. Not quite as expensive as orthotics, but very similar and they have helped a lot with a variety of injuries plus other niggles.

[Isolde]

My progress with Baclofen

Oh man, I just had a really well thought out, nicely worded post that I was about to hit submit on. I previewed it and went to change ONE thing and somehow deleted the entire thing. :upset:

I'll try to re-sum quickly.

Got an Rx for 30 .25mg pills of xanax from the doc. Yay!
But I am kicking myself for having been too honest, because while .25mgs works great for me, it would have been nice to get 30 .5mg pills and been able to stockpile some for any possible future sleep mishaps. But in my effort to appear to the doc that I wasn't trying to get a script for recreational abuse purposes, I told her that my dad had given me some .5mg pills and that I cut them in half and that amount worked really well for me.

This has turned into an obsessive thought, which is another recent SE of baclofen. I just keep kicking myself about it and am having a hard time letting it go.

This has manifested with other thoughts as well. As I mentioned in another thread. I've been returning and exchanging anything that I've bought that I'm not completely satisifed with. I will also request my money back for anything that I was overcharged for, even if it's a small amount that I don't notice until I look at my receipt when I get home and can't make it back out to that store until the following week. But whenever one of these things happens, and I realized I was overcharged, or bought something I didn't really need, I absolutely OBSESS about it until I rectify the situation.

The willingness to go and do these things is another bac SE, albeit a really good one. My social anxiety, introvertedness and shyness have all but disappeared now. Before I wouldn't even bother with getting my money back for something I'd been overcharged for, especially if I was already home when I realized it. I have no qualms about doing so now. It was so bad before that if I was with a friend who was returning something (especially if they maybe didn't have a receipt, or I thought they might make a bit of a stink about it [which fortunately I still don't do!]), I would get anxious.

It's odd that some of these SEs didn't show up until I got to a dose about 30mgs higher than my original switch. I would have expected them with the initial anti-anxiety effects that I felt at lower doses of bac.

Another SE I'm experiencing today is really awesome. I know someone else likened the feeling to rolling on E before, and that's totally how I'm feeling now. I'm feeling really good overall, since I woke up this morning, music sounds REALLY awesome (even better than it had been), I feel like talking to everyone, etc. I really wish I was off today, because I have so much energy and could get so much done! Unfortunately my energy takes a big dip by the early evening, so that by the time I get home from work, I don't have enough energy left to do much of anything. I sure wouldn't mind if this SE stuck around though!!

Guess I should post some of these in the beneficial side effects of bac thread! But that will have to wait until later, as I've already spent way too much time on MWO this morning (especially after trying to re-create this post!), and I've got work to do.

[Isolde]

My progress with Baclofen

Ok, I know I said I was going to get some work done, but I just remembered something that the doctor said and I wanted to post it (before it becomes another obsessive thought!).

She had said that maybe at some point I might want to look into getting off of the baclofen and try something like antabuse.
I imagine that some of you will have the same reaction to that as I did. I was horrified.
I told her that I had tried other things (Topamax, willpower, supplements, etc.), and read about people's experiences with a lot of the other drugs out there. And that the best thing about baclofen is that it takes away the craving to drink, that I used to drink because of anxiety, and now that the anxiety is gone, I just couldn't care less about alcohol now. That if I took antabuse, the craving would still be there, I just wouldn't be able to physically drink. She mentioned the negative reinforcement of the drug, and I told her that drinking a lot on baclofen produces a really nasty hangover that is PLENTY of negative reinforcement.
(disclaimer - I know that's not the case for all of us here, but it was for me.)
Her concern was that some medications can cause side effects which require you to take another medication to set right. And that the other medication might also have a side effect that will create the need to take another medication, etc. (like the bac induced the insomnia that sent me in for a xanax script). She said that I'm young and that she doesn't want to see me getting started on a path of taking 5-10 medications.
I get that, I totally get that. I don't want that either! And I told her that and also that at the lower levels, like the maintenance dose that I'm about to start working my way towards, there really aren't any intolerable side effects, and that it actually causes me to sleep quite well!!

I hope I got through to her. I'd hate to think that I'd given her a bad impression of bac. I had to tell her the whole story about bac and how it works, because it was the physician assistant I was seeing, not my doc, who knows my whole story. I was trying to avoid having to bring it up at all, but she saw that I was on bac and when she looked it up, she saw that it can cause insomnia. Maybe she didn't go through my file in too much depth, because she asked what kind of muscle pain I was on bac for, and that was how the whole conversation about that began.
But it just goes to show how little most docs (and even younger physician's assistants, who I would expect to be more up to date on current treatments) know about the nature of addiction and the best ways to treat it.

[beatle]

My progress with Baclofen

About Xanax (alprazolam)

I went to my doctor today (a scheduled check-up) and asked her for a prescription for xanax. She trusts me pretty completely, so I was confident she would prescribe it for me. But when she went to look it up, she couldn’t find it – goes by a different name here, I’m sure – and I didn’t know the generic name for it. So I came home and googled it (xanax= alprazolam), and the description sounded almost exactly like lorazepam (ativan) (which I have plenty of at home).

(Just an aside, these are benzos, and as such are highly addictive, especially the ones with short half lives, like alpra and loraz.)

From objective sources I found out that alpra is processed by the liver, so people with liver issues, or even concerns (as most alkies should have about their livers – even if they are AF now), should probably avoid that.

Other than that, of the two, alpra seems to have the most addiction potential because it hits you fast and then leaves you fast, giving a rebound withdrawal effect, which is far less in loraz. Alpra is apparently faster acting, so preferable for panic attacks.

Sorry, I don’t mean to make this into Bluelight, but we have been discussing this, and I thought this info was interesting and highly relevant.

I am worried about the addiction potential and the liver issue with the alpra, so I will stick with the loraz (plus, I already have the stuff :clapping2.

However, if you are just taking it for sleep, some people on Bluelight say loraz doesn’t make you so sleepy, but alpra does. I find that loraz relaxes me in the daytime and works fine as a sleep aid at night, but nothing like zolpidem.

I have only been taking loraz once in a great while because of my anxiety about addiction. Ironically, I have been taking it for anxiety. I may try to alternate it at night with zolpidem now, so that I don’t get addicted to either. Of course, I never do this every night – just when desperate. If you don’t give your body a chance, it will never learn to do it itself. I’m always looking for more natural ways, including just staying awake and getting things done (like bleep).

And btw, I believe zolpidem has less of an addiction potential than xanax

Now here’s the big difference between this forum and Bluelight. What you will find out on Bluelight (along with some very good and interesting info) is that lorazapam does not produce a high, or “euphoria”; if you want that, alprazolam is the way to go.

Now you found it out on MWO, so I guess we are not so different after all.

[Guest]

My progress with Baclofen

Beatle

You are absolutely right, I had an idea lorazepam is a benzodiazapene and it is. The same group as librium et al.

Recommendation is not to drink on them and to be quite careful regards addiction too.

Lorazepam (Ativan) Information from Drugs.com

I'm guessing you've already read similar information though. It does mention in the link that they can be habit forming. Xanax is listed as a similar drug too. I'm going to check that one out a bit more because I've seen both Ativan as well as Xanax mentioned on MWO. Usually as drugs to help you sleep, now I know Xanax is a benzo(I'd assumed otherwise) then I think I would avoid it too.

[bleep]

My progress with Baclofen

I hate the lost post syndrome, happens quite often to me!

I had that E feeling, it was absolutely amazing, couldn't believe I was getting it off a little prescription pill! Lasted a while, if I recall, so there's hope for this evening...

I also had those obsessive thoughts, for what it's worth.

Enjoy the ride!

[beatle]

My progress with Baclofen

Obsessive thoughts -- always had them... just worse on baclofen.

Actually, come to think of it, that's one of the most unbearable SEs of all.

Along with paranoia.

[Isolde]

My progress with Baclofen

Yup, xanax (alprazolam) is a benzo and apparently highly addictive.
This isn't something I am personally worried about. I have had access to it (and sometimes just kept some on hand) for years and have never once thought to take it just for the heck of it, or to take more than was necessary.
And because bac takes the addictive quality out of things, I'm even less worried. Alcohol (and sometimes food!) are really the only things I've ever had a problem with over-using. I've used a variety of illegal drugs and have never had the desire to really take more than was necessary, or to take something too often. Even highly addictive substances (like coke) I've used a few times and enjoyed but never felt like, "Wow, I can't wait to do that again!" And I really couldn't care less if I ever did it again.
Also, (thankfully, and to my doctor's surprise!) my liver function is excellent, so I'm not worried about using small amounts of xanax. Hopefully as I start titrating back down I'll be able to sleep well naturally again and won't have to take much of the xanax at all.

Beatle, I understand your concerns for yourself, and I'm glad that you found something that you already have at home which should do the trick without the risk. :l Glad you researched it! The Atvian might be a good choice for others here with bac-induced sleep problems.
Just wanted to put my story out there, and why I feel safe with the xanax.

bleep;1052310 wrote:
I hate the lost post syndrome, happens quite often to me!

I had that E feeling, it was absolutely amazing, couldn't believe I was getting it off a little prescription pill! Lasted a while, if I recall, so there's hope for this evening...

I also had those obsessive thoughts, for what it's worth.

Enjoy the ride!

Thanks for identifying w/the lost post syndrome, that actually does make me feel better!
We'll see how it plays out tonight, maybe this fantastic feeling will stick around!
You're the first one I've seen so far to mention the obsessive thoughts. Glad I'm not alone!

And beatle, thanks for chiming in on that also. Sorry you have to deal with them normally too! Ugh, they're so annoying!

[beatle]

My progress with Baclofen

Isolde;1052339 wrote: Yup, xanax (alprazolam) is a benzo and apparently highly addictive.
This isn't something I am personally worried about. I have had access to it (and sometimes just kept some on hand) for years and have never once thought to take it just for the heck of it, or to take more than was necessary.
And because bac takes the addictive quality out of things, I'm even less worried. Alcohol (and sometimes food!) are really the only things I've ever had a problem with over-using. I've used a variety of illegal drugs and have never had the desire to really take more than was necessary, or to take something too often. Even highly addictive substances (like coke) I've used a few times and enjoyed but never felt like, "Wow, I can't wait to do that again!" And I really couldn't care less if I ever did it again.
Also, (thankfully, and to my doctor's surprise!) my liver function is excellent, so I'm not worried about using small amounts of xanax. Hopefully as I start titrating back down I'll be able to sleep well naturally again and won't have to take much of the xanax at all.

Beatle, I understand your concerns for yourself, and I'm glad that you found something that you already have at home which should do the trick without the risk. :l Glad you researched it! The Atvian might be a good choice for others here with bac-induced sleep problems.
Just wanted to put my story out there, and why I feel safe with the xanax.

I knew that, Is. I wasn't worried for you. I just wanted all that information together for anyone else who might come along and read it.

All my raving about zolpidem, and then yours about xanax... just wanted it to be out there so as not to unintentionally mislead people. These threads are, of course, not just a dialog between individuals, but records for posterity... that many people after us will read.

Great about the liver function, Is! Maybe you weren't such a drinker as you thought (or maybe you had been at it for less time than some of us).

My liver enzymes would always be rocketing while drinking, but return to normal after a couple weeks AF.

There's another test they can do (and apparently my doctor ordered it) and it shows if you have been drinking heavily for a long time. Even months after you stopped drinking.:egad:

Mine obviously showed up big and strong. Scary. I wonder if health insurance companies (or even companies hiring people) can get a hold of this?

[seeking_serenity]

My progress with Baclofen

Isolde;1052274 wrote:
Another SE I'm experiencing today is really awesome. I know someone else likened the feeling to rolling on E before, and that's totally how I'm feeling now. I'm feeling really good overall, since I woke up this morning, music sounds REALLY awesome (even better than it had been), I feel like talking to everyone, etc. I really wish I was off today, because I have so much energy and could get so much done! Unfortunately my energy takes a big dip by the early evening, so that by the time I get home from work, I don't have enough energy left to do much of anything. I sure wouldn't mind if this SE stuck around though!!

Guess I should post some of these in the beneficial side effects of bac thread! But that will have to wait until later, as I've already spent way too much time on MWO this morning (especially after trying to re-create this post!), and I've got work to do.

I've already posted my thoughts re: xanax, but I wanted to say YES! I understand this aspect of bac so much! My anxiety is gone gone gone (although it's not completely pushed aside by the bac; stressful events still make me stressed, just less so on bac). Music is wonderful. I love talking to people, and I've been reaching out to people more and more lately. The increase in energy is wonderful. I also understand the evening "crash," and I wish my friends could understand it as well!

Hope that all goes well for you and that you resolve your sleep issues well. Just don't take too many xanax, or get too used to it. The rebound anxiety I've had in the past was an absolute bitch to deal with. :h :l

[Isolde]

My progress with Baclofen

beatle;1052380 wrote: I knew that, Is. I wasn't worried for you. I just wanted all that information together for anyone else who might come along and read it.
All my raving about zolpidem, and then yours about xanax... just wanted it to be out there so as not to unintentionally mislead people. These threads are, of course, not just a dialog between individuals, but records for posterity... than many people after us will read.
Excellent point, beatle. I so often forget that it's not just chit chat between me and my MWO friends. Other people are reading who aren't chiming in, and others will read for a long time yet to come. Thanks for the excellent reminder. :l

beatle;1052380 wrote:
Great about the liver function, Is! Maybe you weren't such a drinker as you thought (or maybe you had been at it for less time than some of us). Yeah, I actually knew that my alcohol problem wasn't "that bad", if you can say that about an alcohol problem. I wasn't a binge drinker, I never blacked out, etc. But my alcohol intake was a problem for me. AL absolutely was controlling my life and I'm glad to have had the chance to be able to do something so positive about it before it spiraled (further) out of control.

beatle;1052380 wrote:
My liver enzymes would always be rocketing while drinking, but return to normal after a couple weeks AF.

Same thing happens with my blood pressure. Shoots up while drinking, but gets back into normal levels after some AF time. But even w/out drinking now, the bac still has me in the hypertensive zone. Thankfully the high bp is easily controlled on a small amount of meds. I'm hopeful that one day I'll be able to get off of them completely!

seeking_serenity;1052631 wrote:
I've already posted my thoughts re: xanax, but I wanted to say YES! I understand this aspect of bac so much! My anxiety is gone gone gone (although it's not completely pushed aside by the bac; stressful events still make me stressed, just less so on bac). Music is wonderful. I love talking to people, and I've been reaching out to people more and more lately. The increase in energy is wonderful. I also understand the evening "crash," and I wish my friends could understand it as well!

Hope that all goes well for you and that you resolve your sleep issues well. Just don't take too many xanax, or get too used to it. The rebound anxiety I've had in the past was an absolute bitch to deal with. :h :l

Thanks very much for the tip about the xanax. I definitely don't want to get to a point where I'm taking it daily. I've never even taken it 2 days in a row. As much as I want to get a few good nights of sleep under my belt, I'll make sure to take some days off on a weekly basis (until the sleep issues resolve). I'll use other stuff in the meantime if need be, like the Advil PM that only works if taken rarely! :H

I do so hope that this energetic, low-anxiety, really appreciating music, desire to talk to and connect with people thing lasts even as I titrate down on bac. I noticed these effects a little bit on lower doses, but they've only REALLY become evident since I started bumping up the dose again. I feel like that the person I've uncovered with bac is the Beth I was always supposed to be. I don't want to lose her!

[Bruunhilde]

My progress with Baclofen

Hey Is,

Sorry it's taken me so long to find this thread, somehow after a few minutes, my ADD takes me elsewhere and I lose the thread of thought, have to reread everything, and then I lose energy to respond. So I don't get much MWO read most days, although lately I've been superpowered (for me).

I think I posted elsewhere and you may have already read, because I think it was for you, that xanax is great but you can't use it nightly, but I do use it nightly for several days if I need my sleep. I figure it's harder where you are, titting down, so unlike me, I can up my dose and get sleep on those days but maybe you can just use it on the days you down dose (trying to control the titting here).

By the way, I got my xanax for panic attacks, and convinced my doc over time to up it to lower my RX cost. So I get big pills but I don't take even a third a pill a night, usually more like a 5th and so I can up it on bad nights. And sometimes, I have to go off it completely to reset, because it doesn't work anymore, because of my growing tolerance, and those nights aren't good. Except now I'll time them for upping the dose.

I am beginning to worry a bit about down trating however, given your experiences. I hope you stop clenching soon. Use the panic attack/anxiety attacks to get a small rx to help you through the worst, keeping in mind the addictive aspect.

OK, apparently can no longer type, so g'nite!!!

[gratitude]

My progress with Baclofen

seeking,
at what dose did you notice the anxiety was gone? man, that would be heaven.