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    Progress thread for ne

    Ne -- I quit smoking about two months into Bac, probably at around 140 mg or so. I still get occasional pangs / tugs. I used the Easy Way to Quit Smoking by Allen Carr. My wife used it to stop smoking in 2007, as did I, but then I relapsed, mainly because of my anxiety. My ex-wife used it successfully as well.

    The technique matches up against the kind of mindfulness therapy I'm doing. This therapy emphasizes coming to terms with and accepting one's feelings, rather than trying to make them go away (try not to think about a pink elephant!). Part of Carr's schtick is that if the desire to smoke comes up, let it be, and then say, I'm so grateful to be a non-smoker!

    Per the other thread we've been interacting on today, this is my current approach with drinking, as I guess that -- as you say -- may not be at my switch dose. But it's sort of working for now ... and that therapy is used to help curb addictions by noticing an urge / craving, accepting it, and then making a choice based on the life you want to live. Although, as I have pointed out to my therapist, and he agrees, that's all well and good unless you have a high baseline anxiety state, in which case, medication (at least while you build up muscle around a new set of skills) is very much in order!

    Hope that helps. Two months after quitting, when I do have a tug to smoke, I picture myself with my lips wrapped around a car exhaust pipe ... not pleasant!

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      Progress thread for ne

      Ne, could you consider getting back on the Adderall, just to see?
      You don't notice Adderall that much when it's there, not that much when it's gone, but one day into deep disorganization, you sit there and realize you've kinda quit forgetting to take your Adderall.
      It sort of sneaks up on you.

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        Progress thread for ne

        Found this:
        Psychopharmacology, Volume 177, Number 4 - SpringerLink

        The study says Dexedrine (d-amphetamine) had less power to induce dopamine release in rat-brain pleasure centers once the rats were on bac. The rats reduced self-consumption of d-amphetamine.

        But Adderall has to work beyond the pleasure center in ADD, otherwise ADDers would be pleasuring themselves to death with it. If the pleasure response is gone, it just feels like more work to take it. But as you've been off for some time, you could just see...

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          Progress thread for ne

          Morning, all.

          Thanks for the input. I'm going to order Carr's book, Sune. I'm also going to decide what my priorities are. In this case it's smoking cessation or managing ADD symptoms with diet etc... I'm leaning toward ADD symptoms as those are the most immediately debilitating. (I learned this, ftr, with bac. I figured out after trying it a couple of times that I needed to marshall my resources for just one thing at a time. Who knew?)

          Pro, yep. That's one of the studies I came across. (Actually, it was sent to me...thx.) But there are a couple of others; one rat, one human. I did actually play around a bit. When I first started taking it, 5mg at a time, 2x/day at most had a profound effect. I had to consistently up that. Finally, in late November, I took 50mg over the course of about 6 hours. egad! (There's a study that shows that the locomotor response of amphetamine decreased because of bac, but not the heart rate response. Needless to say, my heart was a-pounding.) I didn't take any for about 3 weeks, and last week took 10mg. Again with the pounding heart, but no other responses, in terms of attention or tiredness. I took a nap. Woke up refreshed, though still a bit wonky, and got on with the day.

          Plus, and here's the important (to me) thing: Adderall treated the symptoms and masked the problem. I've got little interest in bandaids, though I'll take it for the short term goals. Bac has taught me the difference between treating the dysfunction, and treating the symptoms. Bac fixes what ails me, in terms of the chemical imbalance related to my compulsive drinking. If that doesn't make sense now, it will when you get to the goal.

          Oh, and I missed a response I meant to make yesterday. I really wanted to take the edge off and just relax when I was hanging out. A little social lubricant goes a long way. In my case, however, it might go a loooooong way--and take me right back down that ugly path. So I'll figure out a way to hang out without booze. Or stop hanging with people who/when the occasion calls for drinks. We'll see.

          And yeah, I agree, tipsy is fun. Especially back when I was new to the sobriety thing. But tipsy leads to annoying, and it's a quick trip! :H The last two get-togethers I've had here, my friends were fun, but then they wouldn't leave. I finally decided to go to bed. Really. I didn't want to spoil the party, and I didn't want to stay up. "Sorry, I get up at 4am, and I like it that way. Take the bottle(s) and have at it!) They all left, of course, but have threatened to come over for dinner/drinks at 4pm so they can carry on before this old lady needs bed...

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            Progress thread for ne

            Ne/Neva Eva;1240355 wrote:
            And yeah, I agree, tipsy is fun. Especially back when I was new to the sobriety thing. But tipsy leads to annoying, and it's a quick trip! :H The last two get-togethers I've had here, my friends were fun, but then they wouldn't leave. I finally decided to go to bed. Really. I didn't want to spoil the party, and I didn't want to stay up. "Sorry, I get up at 4am, and I like it that way. Take the bottle(s) and have at it!) They all left, of course, but have threatened to come over for dinner/drinks at 4pm so they can carry on before this old lady needs bed...
            Your place. Your terms.

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              Progress thread for ne

              Ne,
              Are you still craving white sugar?
              I ate nothing but sugar the first time I quit. It went away when I started re-drinking (don't recommend this). When I stopped, it stayed away.

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                Progress thread for ne

                Nutshell;1240361 wrote: Your place. Your terms.
                Ha. Yes. We all know that...It's just so much fun to have people over, and to have them have such a good time, and to actually remember it. AND to not completely embarrass myself. (The last party I had, I was so rude to one of my guests--I didn't/don't like her--that she left in tears. Same party a couple of hours later, I tried to stand up off of my couch and fell face first into the lap of a very large, very gentle man. He was more embarrassed, for me, than I was. He was also the guest, a new boyfriend, of one of my closest friends. It was terrible. It was also two years ago.)

                Pronoia2012;1240690 wrote:
                Ne,
                Are you still craving white sugar?
                I ate nothing but sugar the first time I quit. It went away when I started re-drinking (don't recommend this). When I stopped, it stayed away.
                yeah. There is something to this sugar craving/compulsion that is definitely related to the imbalance in my own brain/body. I'm working on the solutions...Much of it based on what I've read here, of course.

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                  Progress thread for ne

                  alrighty. I think I'm going to try the 7 weeks to sobriety nutrition approach. Without the wheat, or meat. And a whole bevy of other things. Any insight would be really helpful, 'cause day one was just not easy.

                  In fact, midafternoon I took a nap and the thing that got me out of bed was the allure of chocolate ice cream. I had a salad instead, and as much as I tried to mind-think my way into the idea that it was what I really wanted, I really, really wanted chocolate ice cream. Dammit.

                  I also remembered what craving is like. Actual, intense, almost overwhelming, craving. I'll be completely honest that if my husband hadn't been home I probably would have caved and eaten the ice cream. (Yes, I know, I should just get rid of it. But I spend a ridiculous amount of money on buying the "good" version of junk food, and I am loathe to throw it all away. But perhaps I will. Probably a good idea, right?)

                  The added benefit of 7 weeks is that it should presumably help my brain chemistry to resist cravings in general, so it goes along with my goal of quitting smoking.

                  However, I have some concerns, and any help or insight would be appreciated.
                  I am suddenly not eating meat. Credit/blame an amateur's attempt at reading about Buddhism. It's long been a goal, but I can't stomach it.
                  I also don't want to eat wheat, soy, corn, anything white, including dairy or sugar at all. These seem to be the foundation for both good health and all the ADD diets I've come across. Ditto the additives/chemicals/stuff in foods.

                  That said, I have a very, very yummy and expensive block of parmesan I'm not going to give or throw away. And I really like yogurt/cottage cheese/melted cheese/any cheese.

                  Finally, I'm hesitant to take some of the supplements listed in 7 weeks. The science is oooooold, and it's not particularly relevant for those of us on HDB, or even LDB. I'm gonna start a thread here one of these days related to that so we can have a healthy debate about it...Anyone else interested in the topic/doing it?

                  Help! Where do I start?

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                    Progress thread for ne

                    Ne,
                    Where is the diet thread on 7 weeks to sobriety?

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                      Progress thread for ne

                      There isn't one. Yet. Feel free, though! I know it's a favorite topic of Otter's and others, too.

                      Btw, I don't know of a female misogynist, war journalist that loves fishing and booze, Reg. But I'm wracking my brain for the female equivalent of Ernest.
                      and I haven't heard from Ig in a long time. Maybe I'll see if I can't convince him to check in. xo

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                        Progress thread for ne

                        Ne, have you seen this thread?

                        :https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...emia-5109.html

                        There are some good ideas there. A variety of health issues limits diet here too, and the first post was helpful for me.
                        Ginger



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                          Progress thread for ne

                          Ne/Neva Eva;1241384 wrote:
                          I also don't want to eat wheat, soy, corn, anything white, including dairy or sugar at all.
                          Those things aren't particularly good for you anyway. Starchy carbohydrates are some of the cheapest easiest source of energy (calories), but don't really do anything for you apart from give you something tasty to eat. We're much better off getting carbohydrates from vegetables. They're more nutritious, and are great for digestion.

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                            Progress thread for ne

                            I'm interested in the topic. I don't know how to contribute exactly on diet, because I do eat meat. I've given up wheat, corn, sugar, dairy, chemicals, and even vinegar, all at once. I still ate a little soy.The hardest part was the time I had to spend in the kitchen. The food prep, everything had to be made by scratch. I think that's the best way to eat. Now I've only given up wheat (even more than wheat since I don't eat gluten) and sugar. And I've been eating small amounts of dairy. I do think you've motivated me to consider getting back to a stricter diet. It makes a huge difference in how I feel. It's the time issue...

                            If you don't eat meat or soy, how do you plan to obtain your protein? I do have to say, the meat in this country feeds on corn mostly and soy, so that's an issue. Well, there are so many, it's hard to comprehend. I don't understand your want to not eat it from the Buddhism perspective (only because this I know nothing about it. I'm sure there are very good reasons), but I do from many others.

                            I just pulled out my copy of 7 weeks. I wonder about aminos. I still haven't compiled a list of supps for Dr L to run (I guess through Epocrates? :H) I will do that maybe today. I was taking the All One, so it will be interesting to see what is says. It has a long list of aminos.

                            Will it be difficult for you to do this, cut out all these food groups at once, with such a busy semester?

                            *If there's anything you feel you can't live without, or that you crave with intensity, there's a decent chance you have an intolerance to it.
                            This Princess Saved Herself

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                              Progress thread for ne

                              redhead77;1241502 wrote: I'm interested in the topic. I don't know how to contribute exactly on diet, because I do eat meat. I've given up wheat, corn, sugar, dairy, chemicals, and even vinegar, all at once. I still ate a little soy.The hardest part was the time I had to spend in the kitchen. The food prep, everything had to be made by scratch. I think that's the best way to eat. Now I've only given up wheat (even more than wheat since I don't eat gluten) and sugar. And I've been eating small amounts of dairy. I do think you've motivated me to consider getting back to a stricter diet. It makes a huge difference in how I feel. It's the time issue...

                              If you don't eat meat or soy, how do you plan to obtain your protein? I do have to say, the meat in this country feeds on corn mostly and soy, so that's an issue. Well, there are so many, it's hard to comprehend. I don't understand your want to not eat it from the Buddhism perspective (only because this I know nothing about it. I'm sure there are very good reasons), but I do from many others.

                              I just pulled out my copy of 7 weeks. I wonder about aminos. I still haven't compiled a list of supps for Dr L to run (I guess through Epocrates? :H) I will do that maybe today. I was taking the All One, so it will be interesting to see what is says. It has a long list of aminos.

                              Will it be difficult for you to do this, cut out all these food groups at once, with such a busy semester?

                              *If there's anything you feel you can't live without, or that you crave with intensity, there's a decent chance you have an intolerance to it.
                              Protein? Eggs I suppose. There's a well-known UFC fighter who doesn't believe in eating meat unless he kills it out in the wild, so he eats egg whites for protein. If it works for an athelete, it could work for you. Not the most tasty alternative, but you can add herbs and spices to make it more interesting.

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                                Progress thread for ne

                                Ne,
                                Happyhealthylonglife.com
                                Greensmoothiegirl.com
                                Don't know much about ADD but these two blogs are all about changing lifestyles away from meats and Towards plant based meals. You could probably scroll through and find articles on recommended food for ADD and/or email them. Really interesting.
                                I've really cut down on sugar and have taken to reading labels. Man, ther is added sugar in everything packaged it seems like. No wonder the kids are obese. My problem is finding food that is healthy in my small one store mountain town. Also, I really believe exercise trumps everything. Grat

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