Progress thread for ne

[Road to Recovery]

Progress thread for ne

NE,
If I am reading you right (always the chance I am way off!), becoming sober is so amazing that sobriety sort of becomes a high of it's own. You feel so much healthier, everything that you do is done with enthusiasm and you wish everyone could experience what you are experiencing. After sometime leading the sober life, the enthusiasm slows downn a bit and we start looking around we realize that it is time to grow up - for me, my entire adult life involved drinking.
Anyway, after about 6 months of abstinance, i noticed that I was becoming less motivated and had less energy. Assuming it may have something to do with bac, I tapered off. Unfortuantely, after a couple of months off bac, my energy and motivation did not return. I then began to question - "Am I tired because I am depressed? Or am I depressed because I am always tired?" I went to see my doc and he suggested maybe trying a different AD than what I had been taking ever since my brain decided to tell me I was better off dead. He told me that Effexor is one of the leading ADs in terms of increasing energy levels. So I decided to give it a try.
I had been taking 150mg of Effexor for a couple of months, and didn't notice any improvement. Finally, 1 day, it all started coming back - my energy - my motivation - it came back. Now instead of locking myself in my office at work and napping - I do not have enough hours in the day to accomplish what I want to accomplish. Seeking out new challenges - coming home and being motivated to clean out the storage room that barely had a walking path through it.
I guess what I am saying NE is that I have noticed that everything you are experiencing - it seems that I had been there 6-8 months prior. So if this is true - what you are experiencing right now, is probably just another phase of your life with sobriety and it will pass.
I hope this all makes sense.
P.S - this post isn't meant to tell people what the mentioned drugs will do - they were mentioned as what was going on throughout this time frame.
2 years on Feb 08 2012

[SlipperyPete]

Progress thread for ne

You just need some fun in your life. Have you thought about taking up knitting?

[suneelca]

Progress thread for ne

Ne -- have been in a bit of a something myself the past few days. Perceived setbacks with my new business, at the same time need to drop a bunch of money in. At the same time had dropped back to 100 mg of Bac and the anxiety level was definitely creeping up (as well as some craving). The stuff that's going on in my life I can't control. But did re-up to 120 mg of Bac, which seems to be the anxiety break-off point for me right now, and feeling better. Even though got some more negative feedback from a potential funding source a couple of hours ago.

Based on what's going on in your life, it can be hard to navigate between events that happen outside us and what's happening within us in terms of our fluctuating stress and anxiety levels and various meds. It's like the Olympic balancing. Perhaps over a sustained period of time, we'll be nailing consecutive tens. At least some of the time. For both of us, seems like now may not be one of those times!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Creator of my own kerfuffle

I can be so foolish.

Let’s review a little bit, shall we?

The class that I’m struggling with? I have a 90.
In the three other classes I’m taking—two of which are actually a bit demanding time-wise—my lowest grade, for anything, is a 97.
My GPA is probably right around 96.

In the last year I have:
Not worked, and returned to school full time, maintained a 4.0.
Still managed to balance the budget, despite the $40k loss. (Weird isn’t it?) We actually have more money in savings now than we ever have before.
I exercise.
I meditate.
I joined a sangha. (a meditation group) that meets twice a month.
I have a great therapist.
My home is clean.
My husband didn’t just send me flowers on Valentine’s Day (a first) he actively wooed me. With food. And jewelry. And mind blowing sex.
And…Wait for it…
I don’t bite my nails anymore!

There is so much more.
I have lunch with my 84yo grandmother once a week. Every week.
I was a support, actually supportive, when my uncle passed away. Not a train wreck!
The friend that I used to have lunch with once a week when I was a drunk? He doesn’t want to get together anymore. He called me last week when he heard that we were moving to remind me that our apartment is one of a kind, that I will hate living at the beach. Blah, blah, blah…I’m pretty sure I can live without meeting up with him regularly.
Yesterday I ran into a woman I have wanted to be friends with and mentioned a group I’m going to join. Turns out she’s a member. She sent me an email and an invitation for next month’s meeting.

I could still go on. And on. And on.

As for the comparison to how my life was a year ago?
I was in a job I hated. I was headed for divorce. My biggest goal on a Saturday morning was to clean up the dirty dishes that had accumulated in the sink and then meet my depressed and angry friend for a fat-filled greasy lunch at the diner. (If I ate that now, I’d be in the bathroom for days.)
I wanted to get together with my grandmother at least once a month. Couldn’t make it happen.
Money was a constant struggle and a source of incredible anxiety and insecurity.
When I went to school for the first six or so years, I failed. Everything. Out of 100 or so credits, I have about 30 that will transfer (meaning I got a 75 or better). I’m not even sure there are that many.
In short, my life was completely unmanageable and I was miserable.

Yet it is no longer the comparison that matters. My life is so. damn. good. it’s shocking. It’s nothing short of miraculous. Really.

It’s not sobriety. It’s baclofen. I am finally me. Whole. Healthy. Able to do what I say and say what I do.
I have no room for regret and remorse and resentment. I really don’t. Every now and then I find myself reveling in it for a little while. I suppose it serves a purpose. () Yes, it’s too bad I didn’t get here back then. But I’m here now. So…

So. I’m pretty sure I’m going to keep taking the pills. And I’m also very sure I’ll start managing my expectations and perceptions.

Thank you all for your kind thoughts and suggestions. I’m going to print this out and re-read it every time I find myself disappointed or upset with myself. And maybe I’ll fill in the rest. Because, really, this is the very short version.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Road to Recovery;1262670 wrote: NE,
If I am reading you right (always the chance I am way off!), becoming sober is so amazing that sobriety sort of becomes a high of it's own. You feel so much healthier, everything that you do is done with enthusiasm and you wish everyone could experience what you are experiencing. After sometime leading the sober life, the enthusiasm slows downn a bit and we start looking around we realize that it is time to grow up - for me, my entire adult life involved drinking.
...
Finally, 1 day, it all started coming back - my energy - my motivation - it came back. Now instead of locking myself in my office at work and napping - I do not have enough hours in the day to accomplish what I want to accomplish. Seeking out new challenges - coming home and being motivated to clean out the storage room that barely had a walking path through it.
I guess what I am saying NE is that I have noticed that everything you are experiencing - it seems that I had been there 6-8 months prior. So if this is true - what you are experiencing right now, is probably just another phase of your life with sobriety and it will pass.
I hope this all makes sense.
Wow, Road. That post is so spot on. Each thing is new in it's own right isn't it? I have never dealt with anything sober. I have a really hard time knowing what's acceptable (am I tired and unfocused because my life is too full and my expectations are too high, or is this something I should address?) (Am I bored/lethargic/pissed off/out of sorts because sometimes life is simply like that? Or is it because I was a drunk? Or that I'm not now?) Hayzeus. Too many options. And there will continue, as you point out, to be phases that I'm unfamiliar with. Since I'm trying to control (uh-oh) everything, each new one is uncomfortable. Thanks for your insight. Keep it coming.
And CONGRATULATIONS! Holy cow. 2 Years!!! I can't wait!

SlipperyPete;1262671 wrote: You just need some fun in your life. Have you thought about taking up knitting?

Nah. I'm thinking about cross-stitch. Eh. Feck that. I'd rather do Crossfit. Then I can show you how to actually kick some silly-soccer-boy butt. Oh. Wait. I can do that already. How's the game, btw?

suneelca;1262919 wrote:
Based on what's going on in your life, it can be hard to navigate between events that happen outside us and what's happening within us in terms of our fluctuating stress and anxiety levels and various meds. It's like the Olympic balancing. Perhaps over a sustained period of time, we'll be nailing consecutive tens. At least some of the time. For both of us, seems like now may not be one of those times!

Sun, I swear I am mostly the creator of my own kerfuffle. That said, a couple of things have happened in the last 48 hours that are downright aggravating. (infuriating. profoundly life altering.)
The program that I've been studying to get into...There's a new dean. They have completely revamped their requirements. Somehow, they have not grandfathered in the people who already started. Not only does it postpone my ability to apply by 6 months (adding another year to a two year program), almost everything I've taken so far is no longer necessary for the application process and I have 4 classes to take that I didn't two months ago. To put this in some perspective, it may completely change my trajectory. Completely. I'm not sure what decision I'm going to make...
And on a much more present-day-relevant note, I saw the dermatologist yesterday and she found a place on my face that she did a (large) biopsy on. I thought nothing of it until I got home and looked in the mirror. I have two black stitches and a rather large sore right above my lip. No biggie, right? EXCEPT that Ed and I have a really fancy shindig to go to on Sunday night. Really fancy. Everyone who is anyone in his industry will be there. He's receiving an award. I have a really great new dress. And new four-inch heels. And a gaping sore on my lip. aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh. Seriously.
:upset:
As to the big, life altering thing? I left the meeting so agitated that I was shaking from head to toe. And I was FURIOUS. It's unjust! Unfair! Wrong! NOOOOO! At one point I thought, "I need to get drunk. That will feel good." And then I completely forgot about it. Except that I would have these fleeting thoughts after I got home and was studying. It wasn't until much later, when I was recounting the story for Ed, that I realized that my pantry is full of booze and that if I'd really wanted to get drunk, my fave bourbon was about 30 feet away. Ah, the power of baclofen. Gotta love it.

Back to your point. Yep. It's one of those times. What're you going to do? Whatever the next thing is...
The last 24 hours have simply added to my list of things to deal with and manage. We may actually buy a house! (omg. The idea fills me with such panic--the commitment! The endless what-ifs! I can't even write about it. But I don't have to drink over it. )
I hope things settle down for you. Soon. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that you'll get the money you need, or that the alternative will be much more enticing. I have to hope that's the case for my quandary too. (fingers crossed.)

Thanks again for your thoughts, peeps. Hope it's a good day for everybody!
:ls

[ifulovelife2]

Progress thread for ne

Ahhhh dude, forget the new dress and heels. Save them for another time. You may as well wear a garbage bag, cos you know everyone is just going to be staring at your hideous facial deformity. :H OK, maybe they won't and perhaps I shouldn't judge everyone by my own low standards.

Congrats on the 1 year anniversary.!

BACLOFEN WORKS, BABY!!!!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

ha. Don't worry Mx. My dress and shoes are such that I'm pretty sure no one's going to be looking that high anyway.

And I don't think I've said it, out loud as it were, Happy Anniversary bacatcha.
I couldn't find the flower emoti. It's been too long! These'll have to do.

:bday3: :yougo:

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

Hi Ne, get ready for your night out and have a great time, shiney hair, new dress, new shoes dont worry about the sore just use a bit of concealer on the bruise and the stitches will make you look more interesting then go and have a great time. Ive been away for a few days and trying to catch up, is it that you cant take the bac and adderall at the same time, I cant find where you said why you cant take them both but that does seem really crap, how did the exam go?

[SlipperyPete]

Progress thread for ne

I knew it, you just needed some fun in your life :H Although I agree, going down on bac sucks. Well, it's good every now and then to keep things interesting, but if I do it for too long I get the shivers.

Ne/Neva Eva;1263705 wrote: Nah. I'm thinking about cross-stitch. Eh. Feck that. I'd rather do Crossfit. Then I can show you how to actually kick some silly-soccer-boy butt. Oh. Wait. I can do that already. How's the game, btw?

We're 4-0 so far this season. 2 games ago we won 6-5, and I scored 4 goals. Last night we won 7-2, and I scored 6 goals. Disclaimer: Not bragging.

[SlipperyPete]

Progress thread for ne

Oh, and I had an assist last night

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Morning, MWO!
Space, the party and the exam were fine. Turns out it was casual. (The party, NOT the exam!) And I was way overdressed. Ah, well. I'd rather be the only one in fancy shoes than the only one without them. Ya' know? It was...really cathartic. A big part of it was that it was a sort of return to the lion's den for Ed. He's so amazingly different now, so self-assured, transformed, actually, that it was wonderful to watch people react to the new indifferent him. That alone made the party a success.

I can't take adderall because it doesn't have any effect. I suppose that baclofen works on that just as it does on cocaine. It's amazing that way. IF I were abusing amphetamines I would find this miraculous. However, because I don't even want to take them, and I haven't found a solution to how to deal with some vestige of ADD or something, I feel like they are a solution. Still, I haven't done enough homework to find out if they are the only way to deal with what I'm struggling with...

Arsenic, we cross-deleted. :H But I'd like to respond, because your thoughts were provoking (in a good way.) The bac part of the boards are so quiet I'm hoping you'll see this here.

Touting a 99% success rate is a lot like suggesting a 25% success rate. No one has any hard evidence, so putting any kind of number on it is silly, really. The fact that the conversation in professional circles now suggests baclofen is a 'substitution' equivalent to benzodiazepines is likely to make the issue even more cloudy, and doctors even less willing to prescribe it. If we don't get a sane and reasonable advocate for the use of HDB sometime soon, we may never know.

I have often reflected on the circular reasoning...The conundrum of "If you're not achieving success you are not doing it right." Sounds a lot like some other routes to find sobriety, right? But there's a big difference. Baclofen offers a chemical solution to a chemical problem. If, for instance, one was to take varying doses of an antidepressant on any given day, it would be rendered ineffective. The same holds true for almost any medication, even antibiotics. It is fact that taken the wrong way, (and there is absolutely a wrong way) baclofen has so little effect that it's not worth the time or expense. It is also true that the side effects can be so difficult that people are unwilling to push through them. I can't argue about what someone else should or shouldn't do. I just wonder about the fallacy inherent in such thinking. (To continue to drink against one's will, risking life/limb/property/family/etc. for the long term, versus making the decision to opt out for a short time and get the job done once and for all. It confuses me that the choice isn't an easy one. But I understand, as I doubted it every step of the way.)

The thing is, and this is really the only thing that matters, high-dose baclofen works. It's the only thing that works the way that it does. It will absolutely rid someone of the tendency to drink against their will. For those of us living on the other side of indifference it is extremely difficult not to get frustrated with the cyclical arguments about it all.

It is unlike any other "program". And though I support people's need to fill time, plan on being alcohol free, exercise, find a therapeutic outlet, eat well, etc. the truth is that if the goal is simply to stop drinking, you can take these inexpensive little pills and stop drinking. Period. One might be a miserable asshole still, but one will not be a drunk miserable asshole. This is found in all the research done with baclofen. All of it. (What little there is.)

It is a lousy drug for the purpose, in no small part because there is very little guidance. But who are we kidding? Even if there was a hard and fast protocol, we are not ones to follow the rules set by doctors for a disease they know so little about. For good reason!

If you take the medication, if you take enough of it, and for long enough, you'll stop drinking against your will. Everything leading up to that point is transient and frankly moot once the deed is done.

Finding sobriety with baclofen transformed my life. I can have a drink! Or not! My choice. I can focus all of my energy on something other than booze. All of it. No niggling worries, no self-improvement, none of that. Just the pills.

Baclofen works.
Hope it's a good day, everybody!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1267713 wrote:

Baclofen works.

And there are several of us that are around who have more than a year of sobriety (not abstinence necessarily, but those are here too) that can attest to the fact. Every single one of us experienced side effects. Almost all of us continue to take the medication without repercussion. Because it's medicine, not magic.

[spacebebe01]

Progress thread for ne

Hi Ne glad the party and the exam went well, and Im glad you wore you glam shoes. Its so amazing that both you and your hubby have done this together, WOW to you both.:dancin:

I understand what you mean when you say you can focus all your energy on something other than booze and congratulate you on your sobriety, Im not there yet but intend keep on going :l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Ah, you are well on your way. I can't believe...You! The change! Do you remember your first post? Your first several posts? egad. Those were terrible times. It gladdens my heart to *see* you...And keeps me focused on doing what I need to do to make sure the transformation sticks. 'cause that's what it's all about. It's hard not to take the changes for granted.
WOW bacatcha.
:l

[GingerDust]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1267713 wrote:
If you take the medication, if you take enough of it, and for long enough, you'll stop drinking against your will. Everything leading up to that point is transient and frankly moot once the deed is done.
What you are ignoring is the fact that the deed is never done and that most people need to work for a living. They need to function in life. Even if someone, and it has happened repeatedly, takes enough time off work to get to switch, most people can not stay there indefinitely without risking jobs, risking safety, even risking lives. The "deed" is never done, and Dr L would agree with that since he prescribes staying at switch dose for life.

It is also true that the side effects can be so difficult that people are unwilling to push through them. I can't argue about what someone else should or shouldn't do. I just wonder about the fallacy inherent in such thinking. (To continue to drink against one's will, risking life/limb/property/family/etc. for the long term, versus making the decision to opt out for a short time and get the job done once and for all. It confuses me that the choice isn't an easy one. But I understand, as I doubted it every step of the way.)
If you believe everything you said above, you had no good reason to decrease your dose post-switch, and to do so was to the result of fallacious thinking. Why mess with the dose at all since you are guaranteed to live forever in indifference if you stay at the switch dose? I guess you decreased your dose for the same reason that everyone does, to escape the nasty side effects.

Some people, I would guess that majority (more than 50%?) are not able and not willing to live in a mentally and physically compromised state in order to "enjoy" indifference. At this point you must know many people whose professions and whose lives could not permanently accommodate the massive side effects of HDB POST switch. That is not a "moot" point. There is no fallacious thinking going on with those people, but there is also no denial regarding the impact of HDB. Maybe you are less impacted by side effects?

Even you continue to struggle with increasing dose to control cravings and then decreasing dose to improve your own ability to function, so when is the "deed" done for you? If that is your chosen path, go for it. Your characterization of the decision to get off the SE roller coaster as a product of "fallacious thinking" bothers me though.

And though I support people's need to fill time, plan on being alcohol free, exercise, find a therapeutic outlet, eat well, etc. the truth is that if the goal is simply to stop drinking, you can take these inexpensive little pills and stop drinking. Period.

AB will do that too, and immediately, with no side effects, at an even cheaper cost. The trick is that you really MUST be serious about not drinking at all, and I think that scares people.

Finding sobriety with baclofen transformed my life. I can have a drink! Or not! My choice. I can focus all of my energy on something other than booze. All of it. No niggling worries, no self-improvement, none of that. Just the pills.

I think you have hit on something here I have increasingly wondered about. HDB is really not about trying to stop drinking. Baclofen is really about trying not to stop drinking. If all what you really want is only to stop drinking, there are easier ways, IMO.

I'm not sure what niggling worries you mean. I doubt I will ever have a life free from worry and would not care for a life void of self-improvement for myself. That sounds boring, but maybe that means that I'm all about me.

It is wonderful that you have found what works for you, but to say without reservation that it will work for everyone is misleading. If you said that it would work for anyone willing to live with permanent somnolence, give up their professions if need be, their sense of physical well-being if need be, sound sleep if need be, the ability to safely operate power saws if need be, etc., that might more accurately the experience of the majority as I read it. It would more accurately reflect my own experience, and I believe that I am like "most people" regarding this.

I obviously missed a slew of posts that came and were deleted as I slept. I can't say that I really "miss" knowing what they said because they sound like more hit and runs. Not knowing what it was that you were responding to, I hope my post is not offensive.

I agree that there is no way of ferreting out percentages as far as success goes until studies are completed. I doubt the studies will conclude that HDB will work for anyone though and even doubt that HDB will be recommended for most. But I am delighted for you that it worked well for you!

The more weapons we have to battle the beast, the better off we all are.