Progress thread for ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I'll get it started:

http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/cesarfax/vol22/22-16.pdf

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

If baclofen only helps if you aren't drinking, how do you explain the fact that I kept drinking as I titrated up? I didn't take a single other medication, not even ibuprofen. No supplements either. I didn't start therapy until 4 months after my switch.

Growing up my father owned health clubs. I literally grew up working out in a gym.

On my 39th birthday I decided to give myself the gift of health for my 40th birthday. I went to the gym 4-6 times a week. I did cardio and weights. I lost 20 pounds. I got strong and fit. I watched what I ate and stuck to healthy and whole foods. I tried supplements (within reason) and stayed away from anything I considered impure.

On the eve of my 40th birthday we went to a restaurant notable as one of the top 10 in the country. We ate for about 6 hours. I made a complete ass out of myself because I got drunk. I fell off of my 4" heels in my size 0 little black dress on the way to the bathroom. My escort held my elbow for the rest of the walk, and waited to escort me back to the table.

On my 40th birthday I woke up ashamed and hungover. I then went on a backpacking trip on the Appalachian trail.

Fit as a fiddle and still a drunk.

Next time we do the AT I might not be as comfortable carrying my pack because I'm not nearly as strong or fit as I used to be, but I damn sure won't be hungover.

Baclofen works.

[spiritwolf333]

Progress thread for ne

Hi Ne -congrats on your post -it really is good to see you "bac" -somewhat full force. It truly can help the forum.

Perhaps I just don't fully understand your recent post, but I would like to share with you the following:

First: Age 47 to 50 (lol now): While I was fully engaged in my drinking debacle-meltdown, I was playing intense racquetball every day (evening). I was trying to sweat the alcohol out of me so that I could go back later that evening and continue drinking. Wow, I was so calm and centered while playing. I don't think any of opponents knew that I had been drinking all day before playing. Typically, I would drink all day, pass out-feel better, drink some more and head to the courts. I would be more than slightly intoxicated while playing and as long as no one was calling me out for it, I was just right (so to speak). The funny-crazy part of this entire drinking while playing debacle was that I won several league championships. In all fairness, the alcohol provided the performance anxiety inhibitor that I needed. I never even heard of medication to reduce alcohol cravings at this time (wish I would have -especially baclofen). Also, my wife, boys, and I love hiking the AP trail. I spent many days hiking and then wondering how I was going to hide and drink the night following our hike.

Second: Fit as a fittle -lol x 5 for me. (Fit as a fittle -term often used in the south). I held with pride just how wonderfully physically fit I was -I did not want to discuss just how far down my brain I gone. I was hurting like hell mentally; maybe at least being physically fit helped me not accept my brain deterioration. Well, the only thing that matters now is that my life and brain were going to hell in a handbasket then now all is on the improve.

An Ne -Ditto, I damn sure won't be as fit for the next hike, but god willing and the creek don't rise, I will not be hung over the following day.

[spiritwolf333]

Progress thread for ne

And Ne:

[img]a href=[/img][/IMG]

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I'm hardly bac full force. I am just...oh, hell who knows?

What's the article? Don't make me work for it!

[spiritwolf333]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1628578 wrote: I'm hardly bac full force. I am just...oh, hell who knows?

What's the article? Don't make me work for it!

I understand -not full force.

Article:

Drug treatment for alcoholism today - Harvard Health Publications

Oh, and many other sidekick references -but just this one for now.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Here is what it is:
A primary diagnosis caused by a fundamental chemical problem in our brains.

Every person who is involved in the science of addiction understands this. It has been proven scientifically.

There are some people who still believe it is a secondary diagnosis based on a different cause. Usually that cause is attributed to a major mental illness or something like major trauma. In those cases, the scientists know that alcoholism/addiction is still a distinct diagnosis. In other words, you can treat the major mental illness, but the addiction will still be there. Or you can treat the addiction but the major mental illness is still there. They are separate.

What addiction is not is a function of malaise, or depression (Dodes) or because your mother didn't love and coddle you when you were an infant (Mate). It just isn't.

You can't have it both ways, Spirit. In other words, you can't suggest that alcoholism is a function of spiritual or psychological malaise of some sort and still understand that alcoholism can be treated with a medicine, specifically for alcoholism.

Baclofen fixes alcoholism for many of us. But that doesn't mean that if the person is schizophrenic, or bipolar, or even depressed it will treat those things. If you continue to believe, in spite of the facts, that alcoholism is a result of other problems, then baclofen is a moot point. In other words, if you are an alcoholic because your mother didn't love you, or you are suffering from a major mental illness, then baclofen by definition can't help.

The truth is, if you take enough of it for long enough, you'll stop drinking alcoholically. You may have to get additional treatment for something else that is wrong in your brain chemistry. Or in your body. Or in your mind. But those things are separate and distinct from the primary, fundamental cause of your addiction.

Baclofen fixes alcoholism.

A lot of us are going to have other things to address after we stop drinking alcoholically. Baclofen doesn't treat those things. But to suggest that you have to quit drinking, or change things dramatically, in order to take baclofen and stop drinking alcoholically, is wrong.

I'm still confused about what I was supposed to notice in the article from the Harvard journal.

[Cassander]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1629072 wrote: Here is what it is:
A primary diagnosis caused by a fundamental chemical problem in our brains.

Every person who is involved in the science of addiction understands this. It has been proven scientifically.

There are some people who still believe it is a secondary diagnosis based on a different cause. Usually that cause is attributed to a major mental illness or something like major trauma. In those cases, the scientists know that alcoholism/addiction is still a distinct diagnosis. In other words, you can treat the major mental illness, but the addiction will still be there. Or you can treat the addiction but the major mental illness is still there. They are separate.

What addiction is not is a function of malaise, or depression (Dodes) or because your mother didn't love and coddle you when you were an infant (Mate). It just isn't.

You can't have it both ways, Spirit. In other words, you can't suggest that alcoholism is a function of spiritual or psychological malaise of some sort and still understand that alcoholism can be treated with a medicine, specifically for alcoholism.

Baclofen fixes alcoholism for many of us. But that doesn't mean that if the person is schizophrenic, or bipolar, or even depressed it will treat those things. If you continue to believe, in spite of the facts, that alcoholism is a result of other problems, then baclofen is a moot point. In other words, if you are an alcoholic because your mother didn't love you, or you are suffering from a major mental illness, then baclofen by definition can't help.

The truth is, if you take enough of it for long enough, you'll stop drinking alcoholically. You may have to get additional treatment for something else that is wrong in your brain chemistry. Or in your body. Or in your mind. But those things are separate and distinct from the primary, fundamental cause of your addiction.

Baclofen fixes alcoholism.

A lot of us are going to have other things to address after we stop drinking alcoholically. Baclofen doesn't treat those things. But to suggest that you have to quit drinking, or change things dramatically, in order to take baclofen and stop drinking alcoholically, is wrong.

I'm still confused about what I was supposed to notice in the article from the Harvard journal.

I agree with this post, Ne. This -- really -- is the miracle of baclofen.

I might only quibble with one part of it. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that baclofen often does more than fix the alcoholism -- the uncontrollable urge to drink. There is anecdotal evidence that baclofen is an anxiolytic which often also addresses the "related" or "underlying" or "co-morbid" anxiety from which some of us suffer. I am not suggesting that it necessarily "cures" anxiety, but many experience some relief. And I know that when I am less anxious I am closer to a satisfactory state of mental health.

Cass

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Agreed.

[spiritwolf333]

Progress thread for ne

Cassander;1629302 wrote: I agree with this post, Ne. This -- really -- is the miracle of baclofen.

I might only quibble with one part of it. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that baclofen often does more than fix the alcoholism -- the uncontrollable urge to drink. There is anecdotal evidence that baclofen is an anxiolytic which often also addresses the "related" or "underlying" or "co-morbid" anxiety from which some of us suffer. I am not suggesting that it necessarily "cures" anxiety, but many experience some relief. And I know that when I am less anxious I am closer to a satisfactory state of mental health.

Cass
Cass -I can only speak from my experience but when most was said and done, baclofen had wiped amount 80% of my anxiety which then led to an extreme reduction in depression. What then followed for me was a better sense of well being.

Ne/Neva Eva;1629072 wrote: Here is what it is:
A primary diagnosis caused by a fundamental chemical problem in our brains.

Every person who is involved in the science of addiction understands this. It has been proven scientifically.

There are some people who still believe it is a secondary diagnosis based on a different cause. Usually that cause is attributed to a major mental illness or something like major trauma. In those cases, the scientists know that alcoholism/addiction is still a distinct diagnosis. In other words, you can treat the major mental illness, but the addiction will still be there. Or you can treat the addiction but the major mental illness is still there. They are separate.

What addiction is not is a function of malaise, or depression (Dodes) or because your mother didn't love and coddle you when you were an infant (Mate). It just isn't.

You can't have it both ways, Spirit. In other words, you can't suggest that alcoholism is a function of spiritual or psychological malaise of some sort and still understand that alcoholism can be treated with a medicine, specifically for alcoholism.

Baclofen fixes alcoholism for many of us. But that doesn't mean that if the person is schizophrenic, or bipolar, or even depressed it will treat those things. If you continue to believe, in spite of the facts, that alcoholism is a result of other problems, then baclofen is a moot point. In other words, if you are an alcoholic because your mother didn't love you, or you are suffering from a major mental illness, then baclofen by definition can't help.

The truth is, if you take enough of it for long enough, you'll stop drinking alcoholically. You may have to get additional treatment for something else that is wrong in your brain chemistry. Or in your body. Or in your mind. But those things are separate and distinct from the primary, fundamental cause of your addiction.

Baclofen fixes alcoholism.

A lot of us are going to have other things to address after we stop drinking alcoholically. Baclofen doesn't treat those things. But to suggest that you have to quit drinking, or change things dramatically, in order to take baclofen and stop drinking alcoholically, is wrong.
.

Ne -Just some thoughts:

I here what you are saying (I think); alcoholism is a disease in and of itself? I agree 100%. I also know for a fact that alcoholism not only results from pre-existing conditions, but also causes other mental issues that may not have existed pre-alcoholism.

I don't have any medical training or addiction training (other than being addicted-lol), so I sometimes try to use analogies to better understand. In my minds eye, I think all we are talking about is a situation like the following:

A person continuously runs out in front of cars for the thrill. He keeps trying to increase the thrill by getting closer and closer to the oncoming cars. At some point he falls and breaks his leg. Now, the thrill seeker has a distinct injury (disease); a broken leg. This has to be treated first and primary before his thrill seeking issues are addressed. His thinking is, just as soon as my leg heals, I am going to right back to fun-thrill activity.

And in writing this example, I had another thought. Lets assume that this car chaser decides to start chasing cars again before his leg is fully healed. He has taken a drug that allows him to think that he can at least chase a few cars going at a slower speed and all is ok. And, so he goes back to slowly chasing cars while his leg is still healing. All the while, he has still not addressed why is foolishly chasing cars at a close distant.

The car chaser never addresses his underlying car chasing problem, so the end result only gets worse over time. In fact, even after they developed a medication that would allow his leg to heal overnight, the car chasing never really stopped. Eventually, he started chasing trains -lol.




Thanks for the writing space.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I'm sorry guys. I'm reading, and trying to respond, but my grandma is still dying (now unresponsive) and I'm just wiped out of all mental energy.

xo

[spiritwolf333]

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Very sorry to hear Ne. My thoughts are with you and your family.

[Doggygirl]

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Hi Ne. I'm very sorry to read about your Grandma. (((Ne))) So hard. Sending you strength vibes.

DG

[Xadrian]

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Wishing you a lot of strenghth, Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Thank you.

She passed early this morning. I am grateful that she is no longer suffering. I am also grateful that both Eric and I were able to be with her and my family throughout this time. We would not have been able to before.

Peace.