Progress thread for ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

StuckinLA;1663802 wrote: Oh c'mon, you + those navy blue cargo pants? Hawt.

You're right! It was a fashion choice. Scrubs may not be more flattering, but at least they fit like pajamas.

For the official record:
I know there are many ways to get sober. There are many tools to use. I used baclofen. I drank when I was titrating up, and I drink occasionally now. I don't drink alcoholically. I don't have remorse or regret or shame or feel compulsion or craving from drinking. That said, I have had long periods of abstinence and have used a lot of other tools to maintain relatively happy sobriety. Plus, I take a lot of baclofen every single day and have for the last 3 1/2 years.

If you are not taking baclofen, then my experience is not very illuminating and you shouldn't base your sobriety (or lack of it) on my experience.

For those of you who don't know or are from the future, there has been a person who has insisted that abstinence is necessary in order to take baclofen successfully. For some reason, this became a debate, even though we know it's not true. But there's fallout that people might not think about every time someone comes on here and spouts that kind of stuff.

Last time he started a thread like that, I got an email from someone who was relatively new to taking bac, still titrating up, and still drinking. But seeing some success, and was generally feeling really positive. She was suddenly frantically worried that she was doing it wrong and wasn't ever going to reach indifference. It was very disheartening. For everyone! It was understandably hard for the person to believe me when I reassured her that the vast majority of us did it just like she was doing it.

So I responded on the original thread and insisted that the person stop insisting that abstinence was necessary for success with baclofen.

Then I got an email from someone who has been really, really sick and is finally on her way out of hell. I'm talking homeless, hospitalized, completely devastated by this disease. Baclofen was not the solution for this person. But she had achieved success with several months abstinence in AA. She wanted to know if I really believed that alcoholics could drink again. She wanted to know if she could drink again. She didn't want to do AA anymore, and didn't want to listen to her sponsor. To be perfectly Clear: I think it's a really, really bad idea to drink when you're trying to get sober in AA. I did it. And I stayed drunk for a couple of decades. Baclofen is a different solution and is completely unrelated to other ways of getting sober. Please do not use my experience as a basis for your experience if you are not taking baclofen.

If you are taking baclofen, please feel free to share your own experience or ask questions or use what worked for me (and others) so that it might work for you.

[redhead77]

Progress thread for ne

I did that-got my EMT-B. It's how I learned I wanted to be a nurse. I was a mere 19 years old. I knew I wanted to do something in the health professions, but didn't know what. I figured it out by spending some time in the ER. We had to spend some hours working in the ER to get our certificate. It was there, being around the nurses, that I discovered what I wanted to do.

One of my first real jobs was with an ambulance company. But since I only had my EMT-B, I just transported patients around. It was a job I found quite boring. I quit after only a couple of months. I left the community college I was attending, and transferred for a nursing degree. Ne, I had to take stats for nursing. You might find you need it at some point after all.

I'm going to stay out of all the drama related to taking baclofen and abstinence. I would like to say this much. Almost anyone who drinks too much could continue drinking and still find indifference (if they are able to tolerate it to the dose they need.) It will likely be harder (maybe much) to keep drinking. Whether they can continue to drink after will be determined by the individual. Some can, and some won't be able to. A lot of this relates to dose, and how one decides to handle their indifference. As you say, if nothing changes then nothing changes. Some of it can be time too. Our physiologic selves can change, but changing our habits and coping mechanisms can be harder. But continuing on baclofen, could give the person the tool they need to be able to not drink in an abusive or dependent way over time. They will learn the other tools to master their life sober, and not have the physical cravings that another person does. That's my .02. I've taken HDB for a few years. I've admitted to having a rocky road with it too.

Yes, I'm up extremely early for a Saturday! I have a ton to do today. I'm finally planting my veggie garden (rain and my work schedule has held me back) along with needing to do a hundred other things. I'm using these very early hours to get Zen and catch up on email and everything else I'm behind on. And my nanny went home for the holiday weekend. So I need to be up early to get some quiet time and space without the kids.

Take good care and thanks for your update!

Yours too, Stuck, even though I haven't made it to your thread yet. :l

[StuckinLA]

Progress thread for ne

redhead77;1664182 wrote: It was there, being around the nurses, that I discovered what I wanted to do.

Me too, but the nurses didn't appreciate my advances...

:l:l:l

[redhead77]

Progress thread for ne

Most nurses are really quite smart.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Generalizations, everyone!

"Alcoholics love to argue."

hmmm. I don't love to argue. Do you?

I think we could all agree that confrontation is stressful. It creates anxiety. For all of us, not just for alcoholics. I have enough stress and anxiety in my life without taking on more of it for some anonymous internet alcoholics I will never know. Don't you? But there's still only one place to get information about baclofen and alcoholism, and this is it. I still feel some tiny sense of responsibility to make sure that the truth wins out in this little corner of the internet. Even after all this time! Even though I really, really don't want to do it.

I think most of us would have a problem if someone walked into our home and asserted that the sky is green, when it is actually blue.

"I believe the sky is green. If you think the sky is blue, then you're doomed to be alcoholic forever." An opinion based on misinformation is still misinformation. It's a falsehood. A lie.

That's what happened here when someone asserted that in their opinion, abstinence is necessary for success with baclofen. Repeatedly. For a year or so.

Let's give the person the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps he is colorblind? So you email him. And talk on the phone. And suggest the many, many ways that the person could find out that the sky is actually blue, and that abstinence is not necessary for success with baclofen. For a year.

Then, finally, it's time for direct action. Because the misinformation hurt someone, and that someone reached out directly and said, "Wait. You said that I should just keep taking the pills. Am I going to fail? Am I doomed?" And you start to imagine the number of silent lurkers who are reading this anonymous internet forum and taking everything they read to heart, regardless of the facts, particularly when someone pretends to be an expert.

So the information is corrected, the person extends a retraction (sort of), if not an apology (sheesh) and all is well, right?

And THEN, someone comes along and suggests that "Alcoholics love to argue." No. In fact, it's disheartening and disconcerting and frankly, so tiresome that it is tempting to walk away from this whole endeavor.

That's also insulting, Cass. It is particularly galling since you yourself refrain from getting involved lest it upset your personal equanimity. Guess what? This is a messy business, this helping other people thing. And direct action, direct help, means actually doing something. No matter what, it is never clean. Even the slightest change in people's perspective is bound to be fraught. Completely changing the understanding of what it means to be addicted, changing not just the treatment but the definition itself, is going to be messy.

You can't read just one book and call yourself an expert. You can't sit high atop your slope and suggest that you see all and know better, when you're so far removed from the actual action you have no idea what it actually looks and feels like. There are a whole lot of actual trees in the forest that you need to see and understand before you can begin to get a sense of the big picture.

SpW, just keep reading. Real information.

[spiritwolf333]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1664772 wrote: "Alcoholics love to argue."

hmmm. I don't love to argue. Do you?

SpW, just keep reading. Real information.

Ok.

[spiritwolf333]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1664772 wrote:

"Taking on some stress some anonymous internet alcoholics I will never know."

Hey Ne, we are people too -although we are reduced to some invisible typewriter heads(lol)

I still feel some tiny sense of responsibility to make sure that the truth wins out in this little corner of the internet. Even after all this time! Even though I really, really don't want to do it.

Ne-thank you for your sacrifices and sharing of yourwisdom.
I do believe there are other sites that address alcoholism, baclofen and drugs for alcoholism.

I think most of us would have a problem if someone walked into our home and asserted that the sky is green, when it is actually blue. beliefs.

"I believe the sky is green. If you think the sky is blue, then you're doomed to be alcoholic forever." An opinion based on misinformation is still misinformation. It's a falsehood. A lie.

Why? If that is there opinion, who are you to say that your opinion is better than theirs or that their opinion is wrong? Do you think that a group consensus regarding an opinion invalidates any other contrary opinion? Today is Memorial Day- wars have been fought to ensure that the opinions of the minority can be legally heard and not criminalize for expressing their opinion. This is fact.


Then, finally, it's time for direct action. Because the misinformation hurt someone, and that someone reached out directly and said, "Wait. You said that I should just keep taking the pills. Am I going to fail? Am I doomed?" And you start to imagine the number of silent lurkers who are reading this anonymous internet forum and taking everything they read to heart, regardless of the facts, particularly when someone pretends to be an expert.

Ne, thank you for policing the site. I am quite sure your intentions are for the good of your majority. Thank you for being there to help someone (and possibly many others) that have fallen victim to my opinions.


And THEN, someone comes along and suggests that "Alcoholics love to argue." No. In fact, it's disheartening and disconcerting and frankly, so tiresome that it is tempting to walk away from this whole endeavor.

Ne, if you are concerned about the welfare of the many new potential prospects, then please don't retire from the site. Your opinions and experience can be helpful to many.

That's also insulting, Cass. It is particularly galling since you yourself refrain from getting involved lest it upset your personal equanimity.

Ne, I have only found that most, if not all, of Cass's post are helpful, considerate, and beneficial. Several times he has tried to bring sense to senseless rhetoric. But please Ne, at least try and accept his contributions in the ligh and spirit of him being helpful -not vindictive. We NEED HIS CONTINUED INPUT. Please re-read his posts. The forum truly needs common sense inserted at certain times.


SpW, just keep reading. Real information.

NE -your opinion is important to you -and probably others. My only opinion regarding opinions is this; when I allow the opinions of others to detract from my opinion, then I Find myself in a position of having to re-evaluate my opinion. And of course, this is just my opinion. Thank you for posting.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Ok.

[spiritwolf333]

Progress thread for ne

You are welcome.

[StuckinLA]

Progress thread for ne

"Why? If that is there opinion, who are you to say that your opinion is better than theirs or that their opinion is wrong? Do you think that a group consensus regarding an opinion invalidates any other contrary opinion? Today is Memorial Day- wars have been fought to ensure that the opinions of the minority can be legally heard and not criminalize for expressing their opinion. This is fact."

Yes. Let us all take a moment to honor the centuries of US soldiers who have fought and died for climate-science deniers, anti-vaccination advocates, and SpiritWolf.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Spiritwolf333 wrote: "Ne, thank you for policing the site. I am quite sure your intentions are for the good of your majority. Thank you for being there to help someone (and possibly many others) that have fallen victim to my opinions." On the last thread there are no less than 10 people who give feedback that what he is suggesting isn't true or reasonable. I don't need to police this community. It happens without one single person bearing that responsibility when people participate.

Here are just three examples where Spiritwolf333 has subjected us to his opinion, regardless of the fact that it's based on misinformation. The feedback was almost universally negative. Still he persists!

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ake-92713.html

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ion-90479.html

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ase-90130.html

Ne/Neva Eva;1665043 wrote: Ok.

spiritwolf333;1665049 wrote: You are welcome.

Spirit, you misunderstood my response. Which isn’t a surprise. If you want to continue to pick fights, you’ll have to find someone else and somewhere else to do it. The record stands and I don’t have any interest in arguing. I've said all I can, in as many ways as I can, and still you persist. I'm done here.

StuckinLA;1665062 wrote:
Yes. Let us all take a moment to honor the centuries of US soldiers who have fought and died for climate-science deniers, anti-vaccination advocates, and SpiritWolf.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I miss my dog.

Ed and I are planning on getting a puppy. A baby this time, because we've fostered itty-bitty puppies, but we've never adopted one.

But the thing is, I don't want a new dog. I want my old dog. Just when I start to worry that I don't miss her enough, or that I'm too callous to care, I get hit with overwhelming grief that she isn't here.

Even just writing it here turns on the tears. My neighbor asked about her yesterday and I embarrassed us both because I just started leaking. I can't stop crying about her. I am eagerly awaiting the passage of time, because I know (trust) that it will make this ache less painful.

:upset:

[Sarah42]

Progress thread for ne

oh boy... *sigh".

GL on your journey NE.

Love, Sarah

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Sarah42;1665140 wrote: oh boy... *sigh".

GL on your journey NE.

Love, Sarah

Agreed. I regret responding. *heavy sigh*

Good luck to you, too. I'm working on perseverance rather than luck. I worry I've used up all my luck because I'm sober, my husband's sober, and we're still married. While I know it's because we worked at it, I still think we got really lucky. Of course, worrying is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean it's easy to stop doing it!

[Sarah42]

Progress thread for ne

Ne- I truly DO wish you a very very happy life and journey. I am starting this journey myself...but w/o meds except herbal supps..and doing better. Was curious though...at what point did you think you needed balcofen? Just trying to learn more...

TIA and much love,

Sarah