Progress thread for ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I?ve been meaning to respond to some older questions.
Taw et al., despite my waffling back and forth, I am very clear that baclofen works regardless of whether or not we?re drinking, (:yay how much we?re drinking, and for how long we?ve been drinking. There may be something to avoiding SEs because of AL abstinence but I?m not sure. I have it on good authority that that my drinking will go up and down inconsistently during this treatment until I hit the ?golden point? and then I?ll just? forget to drink! God, I can?t wait.

I?m very confused about why there seems to be a protocol that allows people to find indifference in a matter of days or weeks, when we?re here slogging through months of (unnecessary?) pain. I?m disheartened by that, and confused as to why there isn?t more information. I still feel a little bit like I?m/we?re being played. (pawns in this elaborate chess game.) I?ll follow up with the good doctor next week.

Bleep, it occurred to me that it may seem as though I?m harping about titration related to your experience. Not so! Jeez, if anyone has some insight it?s you! Sorry if it seems like I?m singling you out. And congrats! I am so heartened by your recent success.

Moglor, my goal is indifference at all costs and complete abstinence.

I did not get the job. But only because of a schedule conflict, which was cleared up pre-interview, thank goodness. My rather precarious self-esteem would?ve been crushed had I been turned down based on anything else.

I?m sleeping pretty well, the blurring between fact and fantasy is gone, in part because I self talk when I wake and am in that weird dream state I now associate with bac. (Is that real or am I creating something?) That?s not to say that I haven?t logged on or checked my call log to find out if something I remembered actually happened, but the last couple of days the conversations I thought I had, I actually did have! Whew!

Rusty, glad you made it home safely and are bac on track! Did I offend?

Low, grrr to the work. Though I think it?s pretty spectacular that you?re juggling a new job, the gigs and the burdens of life. I hope you?ll share how you?re doing that sometime soon.

beatle, I look forward to hearing about whatever is next for you.

bruun, bummer. I know the SEs suck, but they do get better if you can muddle through, and it really is worth it. Still, I understand. Have you thought about calling the good doc?

I remember from previous periods of sobriety falling in love with music. And trees. And people. There is a clarity that comes from not being in a haze all of the time. I?m not sure that?s a bac SE, but could be a sober SE (the ?pink cloud?)! Low called it spring-time in winter. I?m having those moments now, but they?re too infrequent. I?m looking forward to more of them.
There is no hijacking this thread! (EDIT: That isn't what I meant to say!)**** I don't know why people are reading it, but I love and long for any and all input. (except the haters.)
I?m off to prepare for blood work, then a fun coffee clutch!
I look forward to new, heartening stories on MWO today.
:l
****MEANING, It is not possible to hijack this thread, unless you're a hater. But doubters and nay-sayers are welcome! That comment was very poorly worded. sorry.

[bleep69]

Progress thread for ne

neva eva;1045036 wrote: ...

Bleep, it occurred to me that it may seem as though I?m harping about titration related to your experience. Not so! Jeez, if anyone has some insight it?s you! Sorry if it seems like I?m singling you out. And congrats! I am so heartened by your recent success.

... Have you thought about calling the good doc?

...:l

You are the first person in my life to ever claim I have insight, so no, neva, I don't think you are harping on about it at all! Thanks.

Funnily enough, I was going to call him last night (was awake at half 3, right time difference, nothing much better to do, and as I clicked on your PM with the phone numbers, my internet connection died for the night. Grrr. Now there really really was nothing to do!

[tiptronic_ct]

Progress thread for ne

neva eva;1045036 wrote:
I?m very confused about why there seems to be a protocol that allows people to find indifference in a matter of days or weeks, when we?re here slogging through months of (unnecessary?) pain. I?m disheartened by that, and confused as to why there isn?t more information. I still feel a little bit like I?m/we?re being played. (pawns in this elaborate chess game.) I?ll follow up with the good doctor next week.

To me, it purely depends on a person's personal circumstances. If you are to function "normally" (i.e. hold down a job, look after kids etc etc..) a very slow titration is probably best and it falls in line with the philosophy of allowing the bac to have a cumulative effect over time (i.e. "build up").

On the other hand, if you have the luxury of being treated under very close personal supervision, I can't see why a fast titration can't work. You can be looked after through all the SEs. If the addiction industry ever catches onto that, they'd realise that their livelihoods needn't be threatened by bac. Instead of a 6-week rehab stay and almost guaranteed relapse, you have sufficient time to hit your switch and start tapering down to a manageable level before you return to your life.

If I were ever to be placed in a position where I had to do it all over again, I would sequester myself in a place where I have someone to help me, and titrate much faster than I did, simply to reduce the amount of time that bac actually affects one's ability to function and the SEs (like insomnia) are debilitating.

[seeking_serenity]

Progress thread for ne

neva eva;1045036 wrote: I remember from previous periods of sobriety falling in love with music. And trees. And people. There is a clarity that comes from not being in a haze all of the time. I?m not sure that?s a bac SE, but could be a sober SE (the ?pink cloud?)! Low called it spring-time in winter. I?m having those moments now, but they?re too infrequent. I?m looking forward to more of them.
:l

This is such a beautiful thing. :h I feel that way too, in my good moments.

[beatle]

Progress thread for ne

tiptronic_ct;1045059 wrote: To me, it purely depends on a person's personal circumstances. If you are to function "normally" (i.e. hold down a job, look after kids etc etc..) a very slow titration is probably best and it falls in line with the philosophy of allowing the bac to have a cumulative effect over time (i.e. "build up").

On the other hand, if you have the luxury of being treated under very close personal supervision, I can't see why a fast titration can't work. You can be looked after through all the SEs. If the addiction industry ever catches onto that, they'd realise that their livelihoods needn't be threatened by bac. Instead of a 6-week rehab stay and almost guaranteed relapse, you have sufficient time to hit your switch and start tapering down to a manageable level before you return to your life.

If I were ever to be placed in a position where I had to do it all over again, I would sequester myself in a place where I have someone to help me, and titrate much faster than I did, simply to reduce the amount of time that bac actually affects one's ability to function and the SEs (like insomnia) are debilitating.

I agree with this completely, except for one thing:

"If the addiction industry ever catches onto that, they'd realise that their livelihoods needn't be threatened by bac. Instead of a 6-week rehab stay and almost guaranteed relapse, you have sufficient time to hit your switch and start tapering down to a manageable level before you return to your life."

The addiction industy's livelihoods would indeed be threatened by baclofen because there would be no relapses. *That's* what keeps them in business.

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Hey NE, thanks for the encouragement, God knows I really need it. I've been on 50mg for two weeks I think, am so dizzy, nauseated and tired I am barely able to work, can't walk the dog, still drinking way too much - have lost any ability to moderate whereas you might recall before I started bac, I was able to get to 2-4 beers a night vs my current bottle and a half of wine. And the hangovers plus the SE's are brutal together. I wish I liked the feeling of being high like on the evil weed, because that's how I feel constantly, and I don't do well this way.
:b&d:

Are you saying I should go up regardless of my inability to tolerate the 50mg? I see conflicting recommendations on the board ("listen to your body" "wait til the SE's reduce then up your dose" "move up regardless, you have to push through to get to the better levels" etc.).

I have a feeling you'll say push through but wait for the weekend to up it. I know you had trouble, did you push through regardless? At the rate I'm going, it's going to take years to get free. But I have to drive alot next week, and upping my dose when I have to have meetings with my boss and customers - and drive hundreds of miles next week - that doesn't sound safe.

neva eva;1045036 wrote: why there seems to be a protocol that allows people to find indifference in a matter of days or weeks, when we?re here slogging through months of (unnecessary?) pain. I?m disheartened

I'm discouraged too, some people just get there so fast, without the slogging, they started after us and gained freedom way before us. This long term titrating is grueling. I'm so happy for those who had such great success, of course, wish I could have the same as quickly.

I finished OA's book, it seems he didn't have the slogging through, from his personal account, but he does warn doctors he consults with to manage the side effects for their patients carefully. I think he was like Lo0p and others who had little to no SE's and got to the switch very quickly. Plus, he wasn't working.

[gratitude]

Progress thread for ne

bruun,
read loops bad baclofen thread. he describes exactly the same symptoms until he switched brands. worth a look.

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Thanks G, I'm actually exchanging posts with him right now. He recommends a goldpharma brand and TEVA, which he gets via rx in the states.

[gratitude]

Progress thread for ne

cool. fingers crossed for you.

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Thanks, you're so sweet. I would really like to find a brand that doesn't bother me so much, I'm hopeful that it exists.

I'm also wondering if I could have exta side effects because I'm on three kinds of hypertensive meds.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Bruun,
I’d been on 30-50 mg/day for 5 or 6 weeks. I was miserable and consuming WAY more AL than I had previously. I assumed my body was telling me to STOP! I was sure that I was one of the very, very few that high-dose-bac treatment wouldn’t work for. (Truth is that my body/brain/mind are well trained to do what I’ve always done: Keep drinking.)

In chat, one of my friends very sweetly but firmly told me to just take more. :thanks:
I took 70mg the next day. THAT felt so good that I took 90mg the following day! Ouch. Hangover from hell and despair followed. Again, as politely as possible, my friend told me not to be an idiot going forward. I actually listened, started to titrate up regularly and with some thought. That was one of my most peaceful experiences with bac. Not coincidentally I had lots of sober time, or was drinking way less because of family/holiday obligations.

Until I got to 180/200mg, when I was impatient, could feel it working and bumped to 240 over the course of a couple of days. Complete chaos ensued. I logged on here, found a bunch of people reminding me that I wasn’t gonna die, called the doctor who said the same thing and woke up the next day and took the damn pills.
The ride since then has been much smoother. Not easy, but I’ve got my eyes firmly on my goal.

There is lots of advice on these threads about how to do this. Follow the ones who have achieved the goal you want. If that’s complete indifference, follow those threads all the way back. You’ll see the same discussions we’re having here. Tip despaired, prior to being cured. One of my inspirations is Phoenixrising. She was encouraged by Tip to go up, just as she was about to give up. She found her switch last summer and is still happy and healthy. Her mg/kg was high. She encourages me via email now, :thanks: again, because she’s too busy living to spend much time on MWO. Hallelujah.
Moglor, Ktab, Ignominous, Birdy etc… It’s all there.
That was the long version (is there any other?) of YES! Go up! Try it. You can always go bac down. But do both with forethought and a plan.
FWIW, white-knuckling is probably a good idea. Wish I’d taken THAT advice.
Xo, first MWO friend.
:h
btw, I only take TEVA brand. Still have yucky SEs. And yes, one of the common themes for people who didn't make it is that they take other meds. Not suggesting that you should stop BP meds! (and to be clear, have NO medical advice in me) but you could call the good doctor and ask him. Or a neurologist who deals with high-dose bac for spasticity patients. Or look to/pm terryk, who knows everything about everything bac/meds. Also, of course, Lo0p, who knows everything about bac. And is free.

[Lo0p]

Progress thread for ne

neva eva;1045399 wrote: Lo0p, who knows everything about bac. And is free.

Maybe for some things but I fetch quite a hefty price for my EPB service.

Yes, take more!

[beatle]

Progress thread for ne

Nothing good is free (I've been told).

[RedThread12]

Progress thread for ne

Your contributions here are immeasurable, beatle; thank you for all of that. But seems to me that "nothing good is free" doesn't apply to the LoOp paradigm.

I am curious, however, about EPB service.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

tiptronic_ct;1045059 wrote: To me, it purely depends on a person's personal circumstances. If you are to function "normally" (i.e. hold down a job, look after kids etc etc..) a very slow titration is probably best and it falls in line with the philosophy of allowing the bac to have a cumulative effect over time (i.e. "build up").

On the other hand, if you have the luxury of being treated under very close personal supervision, I can't see why a fast titration can't work. You can be looked after through all the SEs. If the addiction industry ever catches onto that, they'd realise that their livelihoods needn't be threatened by bac. Instead of a 6-week rehab stay and almost guaranteed relapse, you have sufficient time to hit your switch and start tapering down to a manageable level before you return to your life.

If I were ever to be placed in a position where I had to do it all over again, I would sequester myself in a place where I have someone to help me, and titrate much faster than I did, simply to reduce the amount of time that bac actually affects one's ability to function and the SEs (like insomnia) are debilitating.

I sort of agree, Tip. Knowing full well that you're free and I'm not, I'll venture to give an opinion anyway! :H
I'm not sure that speedy titration is the key. I think being AF may have much more to do with it. I'm looking forward to further guidance about this.
I agree with the part about close supervision, medical or otherwise. It would be irresponsible and downright dangerous to give an addict a bunch of baclofen and tell them to take it according to their own best judgement, or to simply "listen to their body." Yet that is what doctors around the world are doing.
Which brings up my cynicism. I prefer due diligence, ftr. Any of us that have been a cog in the rehab/hazelden industry has a right, and a duty to be cautious and sceptical. I mean no disrespect to the men that are helping us. It's my responsibility to educate myself about this and make my own path to recovery. I've followed the thoughts of several people on MWO, and after much, much research, based my own path on theirs. (yours included.)
I'm not done with due diligence, btw. Even though I'm being helped immeasurably with baclofen and because of the help I've found here and from the good doctors. If there is an easier softer way, I want to pass that on.
xo, Tip and thanks again.
Bac to the regularly scheduled program!