Progress thread for ne

[Lostinspace]

Hang in there, Ne. The struggle will end sooner than you realize. For my own reasons, I also forced myself to go AF before I had fully reached indifference. For the first few weeks, I had to deal with daily cravings and it sucked a lot. At the same time I continued going up on bac. The cravings and mental obsession faded so gradually that I didn’t even realize I had reached indifference until very recently. It only occurred to me because I’m going to visit a friend for the weekend in a few weeks. I thought about drinking while I was with her to make things more fun, like in the old days. But when I actually envisioned myself drinking, it seemed boring at best, and actually kinda grossed me out.

It’s been two and a half months since I last drank, and probably about a month or so since I last had any real desire to drink - and even then it really wasn’t bad at all. There was no battle when it happened. I had a random thought to stop at the liquor store on my way home, I reminded myself that I no longer do that, then about five minutes later my mind was on to other things. Nowadays I don’t even have mildly annoying thoughts about drinking like that, let alone actual cravings. Anyway, I know you already know what indifference is like since you’ve been there before. But this time you’ve made the decision to go AF for a while prior to reaching indifference and I just wanted to let you know that it’s really not bad for all that long. It might seem like a long time now, but before you know it, it’ll dawn on you that the only time you ever think about drinking is when someone else mentions it, or when you come here to MWO - and that thinking about drinking is about as exciting as thinking about doing your taxes. You’ll get there soon. How high are you on bac at this point? Are you getting close to your switch dose?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

TWO AND A HALF MONTHS!? Are you kidding me? That's amazing.

I'm not abstaining. I'm drinking right now. Which particularly sucks since I see my pdoc in the morning and I do not want to tell her the truth. But I really, really don't want to lie.

I took antabuse last weekend when we were in Maine, and I'm really glad I did, because there would have been no way I could have abstained otherwise. And it was really important for many reasons. (These are the things that I dare not talk about here, lest I invite comment or criticism from people who don't have a clue about me or baclofen or anything else. So fucking annoying.) (So thank you very, very much for your input.)

I could keep taking antabuse, but then I feel like I'm setting myself up for a catastrophic binge. You know? I don't know if that's true, or if I will eventually stop craving this intensely. I didn't even know I was craving booze like this, honestly, until I couldn't drink at all because of the antabuse. Is there a correlation? I don't know.

It's all very confusing. Which is why I've been desperate to post, and share and get some feedback. And also why it's so damn difficult to do it here under these circumstances.

I know what indifference is, and I can't wait to get there again. But I'm taking more than my switch dose already. Though once again, consistency is a real issue. I think I only took 200mg yesterday, instead of the 300+ I should be taking. So today I switched up the timing so that I will take my last dose at dinnertime instead of bedtime. I can't afford to go into the last 8 weeks of school struggling with this and I have exactly 3 weeks from today.

Yipes. I think I have exceeded my word limit, and am also very uncomfortable posting all this. But whatever. Time to take it back until there's a new place to post.

[dundrinkn]

I guess I didn't realize you were back in school, Ne. Good on you. And this isn't a piece of cake for me. I'm struggling. But AF for a bit. Not nearly as long as Lis -- holy crapola! That is freakin' awesome girl.

Got my 2000 words in today. Lasagna, soccer game with cross town rival, and even helped my son with some math homework. That is a miracle. I'm math stupid.

OK. Early day. Have a good visit with your doc tomorrow Ne. Be honest. It's all part of the picture, ya know.

Good night all.

[terryk]

oops.........HAPPY BIRTHDAY, NE!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Ha! Thanks, Tk. :love:

Dun, I'm not back in school yet. I start on or around the 21st. I'm not sure when the first day of class is yet. (I suppose I could check, but then it would be even more real.) I am not freaking out. Sort of. Maybe. It's 8 weeks for crying out loud. And guess what? It's a paper. I mean, there's some other work and yadda yadda, but the grade essentially comes down to one damn paper. Writing papers is probably what I want to do with my life, so you'd think it would be easy-peasy. Maybe it will be now that I'm under control again.

The other thing I figured out is that I really don't want to be a nurse. I know, I know. I wanted to learn about the body and the things that nurses (and doctors) know, in no small part because of this whole baclofen experiment. And now I know. But whatever. I can nurse for a couple of years while I'm figuring out what I actually want to do with my life. Or not. We'll see. I'm open, universe, just keep me posted.

I'm taking antabuse this morning before I chicken out. The wine last night did not taste good or feel good.

Hope it's a good day, folks!

[Lostinspace]

I’m sorry you’re still struggling with cravings so much, Ne. It will get easier for you, especially if you can get onto a more consistent dosing schedule with bac. Have you tried setting multiple reminders for yourself? You can set phone alarms. You can set up systems where you don’t leave the house without it. I keep my noon and evening doses in my bag that I take with me to work. One of my phone alarms doesn’t go off until I get home from work. That way I go into my bag to get my dose, and at the same time, replace it with the pill holder box of the next days’ doses. Do you think there’s some kind of routine like that you could get into?

And it’s good to figure out what you do and don’t want to do with your career. Maybe you can still use the knowledge you gained in your nursing program in a different capacity. You’ll feel it out.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Yes. Consistency is now going to be my number one goal. I'm about to start taking a medication that is contraindicated with booze, (aren't they all?) but I've promised my pdoc that I won't drink while I'm taking it.

Unfortunately, the insurance company has to approve, so I won't get to start it until next week. I've taken that as a license to drink today and maybe tomorrow. Then forced abstinence for a while. I think that will, as you pointed out, really help. And it will be interesting to see if the medication works.

Later.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I brought this over from the other thread because I don't want to participate there, but need to remember the info. Thanks, tk, for posting this. My pdoc has actually downloaded and read a bunch of information about baclofen. She gave it to me to look through, copy and/or scan over the weekend. I'll post or email you with anything new. I also want to make sure she has all of the things that we have, too. She wants to prescribe it for others, but needs the research to back it up before she takes it to the head of her practice.

Hi lex - This thread has nothing to do with baclofen and I'm perplexed as to why you've brought it up here, in the way that you have...

1) High-dose baclofen has recently been proven efficacious for the treatment of alcohol dependence in a randomized, placebo-controlled trial.

2) High-dose Baclofen has a proven safety record - from High-dose oral baclofen: Experience with patients with Multiple Sclerosis (full text):"There are several references to long-term, high-dose baclofen treatment for spasticity. Jones and Lance summarised their experience with 113 patients with spasticity treated with baclofen for up to 6 years. Baclofen dosage ranged from 30 to 200mg daily with the mean varying from 60 to 110mg depending on the cause of spasticity. Treatment was abandoned in only four patients because of intolerable side effects, and another 20% required a reduction in dosage. [...] Pinto et al identified patients who had taken up to 225mg daily for up to 30 months and emphasized that many patients need more than 100 mg daily and that side effects are only infrequently a persisting problem." And from Clinical and Phamacokinetic Aspects of High-Dose Oral Baclofen (full text)"In this pilot sudy of baclofen kinetics and and synamics in eleven patients, the safety and efficacy of baclofen was confirmed."

3) As of October 2014, 55,000 patients in France have been prescribed Baclofen for the treatment of alcoholism. According to this survey (conducted when baclofen for alcoholism was still off-label), 74.6% of responding physicians (302) who specialize in treating alcohol addiction reported that they prescribed high-dose baclofen to their patients (mean dose 109.5±43.6 mg/d; maximum dose 188±93.3 mg/d).

4) Dr. Ameisen was a very passionate man who admittedly came off like a loose cannon at times. Who is to say why that was, but if you are suggesting that it has anything to to with baclofen I should point out that he was only on a high-dose for a very short time (a month? according to the book), then tapered to a daily maintenance dose (according to different reports I've read) between 60-120mg, and he maintained (to me personally, in an email about a year before he died) that he had never relapsed. Levin never used baclofen. Who cares about Philip Thomas.

5) An internet forum where most people are self-prescribing medications without the assistance of medical professionals is hardly a reliable data source for anyone to draw conclusions about what treatments are efficacious and what are not - you can't make science of out casually browsing through random self-reports. Add to that the possibility that a population that self-administers *any* medical treatment might be at a greater risk of failure than one receiving qualified supervision and reassurance.


I've never promoted baclofen anywhere other than by sharing my experience (positive and negative) and the information I've researched (positive and negative). If this makes me a baclofen cheerleader, go.me.

-tk

[Seagirl1]

Ne, could I ask so very gently, what is it that you need right now ? You have captivated so many hearts here for so many years (mine included) . What is it girl that you are after? I think we know that you are an absolute dedicated follower of baclofen. I believe in the medication Karen. What I am trying to get my head around is the other stuff that impacts your life.? So many of us here can absolutely identify with you but the only answer is within yourself, and you know it.
Personally, I don't think that medication is a long term answer. I do think it is a tool that is very beneficial to many of us and maybe a long term tool. I know that addiction studies are still in the throes of " is it or isn't it" type of thinking. You found a very convincing medication which assuaged your penchant for drinking for quite some time, however, which you have been quite honest in admitting, not forever.
When, in a long term relationship, where getting drunk together has been a way of life, so to speak, it is hard to change that pattern. No matter who wants to change it or "thinks" they want to change it....the old habitual way of being together is always going to raise its head. It is a way of being together, and believe me I speak from experience here and also statistical evidence.
Ne I may be way off target here but you know what they used to say in the old AA rooms, stay away from drinkers and our old mates who really have no "real" intention of staying off the booze. It becomes a way of life Karen, all too consuming and destroying, whereas a way of rescuing ourselves may mean just that. You so deserve it. xx

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Seagirl, thank you so much for that post. It has really touched me and is food for thought.

I am no longer solely relying on baclofen and indifference to keep me from drinking. I don't have enough time to keep at it as slowly as it needs to be done. But I do believe that baclofen is the way to remission for long periods of time, and maybe forever. I wish I had stayed at my regular dose of about 220mg instead of titrating down to 80mg and staying there for almost a year. Now? I need the monkey off my back to do some really important work with my psychiatrist and with myself. Or rather, I need the monkey subdued enough that it isn't gorilla-sized and crushing me under the weight of it.

So I'll continue to titrate up on baclofen. And most importantly, I'm going to be absolutely consistent with it. If you've been reading my posts you know that I have always maintained that taking the same amounts, at relatively the same times, day in and day out, is very important. Unfortunately it's a do-as-I-say, not as I do situation. But that has to stop. My psychiatrist pointed out that the fact that not remembering to take the baclofen regularly rely belied my intentions of being abstinent. She had a good point. I don't forget my other medications, you know?

Ed is, as always, completely supportive. He's seeing the same pdoc, and getting help himself for himself, which is huge. He is absolutely committed to abstinence, but has yet to pass any judgment about the where and the how and the why. We are, as usual, on the same page in the same book, but with our own interpretation. I do love this man I married. I am a very lucky woman in that regard. And trust me, (if you can), if we've made it through what we've made it through, and can still laugh and love and like each other almost every day, there is very little to threaten our commitment to one another. It's been very bad, very dark, and with very little hope before. That's not the case now.

I don't exactly know what I need from here, but a big part of it is to be able to write it all down and get feedback just like the post you made.

Thanks. And thanks for the nice things you said, too. Bacatcha.

[dundrinkn]

Wow. Have to say that these last two posts dropped me down to someplace I haven't found on this thread in such a long time. Authentic. And I see how the cross/referenced approaches really can be helpful. No judgement. No recriminations. Just a moment, an opportunity to offer something meaningful for those still suffering. Right on. Whew.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I feel the same way, Dun. Seagirl1's post really struck a chord, and I really, really appreciate it. This is what it's all about. It's why I came to MWO, why I've stuck around all these years. And it's why I'm going to start posting regularly again.

Thanks, my friends.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Ed and I separated about 2 years after we got married. He moved into an Oxford House (a clean house for addicts) and I went off to rehab. We moved back in together shortly after I got out of rehab, and it just didn't work. We were in a tiny space, with two big dogs, and we hadn't really resolved (or even worked on) our relationship. And we were trying, unsuccessfully, to stay sober. Hiding it from each other and all that. Those were some of the worst months of my life. One night we had a HUGE fight. He locked me out, in the rain, in my pajamas. (Obviously he let me back in. ha.) But the next day, he made arrangements to move back into the Oxford House and was back there before the end of the month. I stayed in the tiny apartment.

Later on, several months later, (maybe even closer to a year?), I found another little apartment down the street, he moved into the place I'd been living, and for the next year+ we lived about 3 blocks away from one another. It was then, for the first time, that we were able to really work on our relationship.

The interesting thing is that we were always together. I mean, we were a couple. Now I've never told him this, and I'm going to delete it, just in case...But there were a couple of men that I drunkenly dallied with...Making out, but never more than that and never more than a couple of times. But Ed was mine and I was his for that whole time. (I thought we were headed for divorce. He swears that he never once thought we would break up. He is a wonderful man and I am a lucky woman.)

I won't continue to drag out this long post, but I wanted you to know, Stuck, that space isn't such a bad thing. Like you guys, we rushed into a living arrangement that maybe wasn't the best thing in the beginning, but seemed like the only option since he lived across the country when we first got together. (He was in Seattle, I was in Baltimore, but we are both from around Baltimore. So he moved home, and in with me.)

Not sure why I felt compelled to share all that, but there it is.

Hope you guys have a good day.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Oh, and the other thing is that once we got sober, things got AMAZING. Everything from the daily chores to the sex. Absolutely gorgeous. And for the last year, when I've basically been catatonic with depression and drinking, he has really struggled, understandably, with anger and resentment. But you know what? We talk and talk and talk about it. I work and work and work on getting better. He has started to take care of himself by seeing a doctor and getting therapy, too.

Bottom line is, I'm his and he's mine and I can't imagine a circumstance that would threaten the fact that we are and always will be a team.

Like I said. I'm a lucky woman. I wish for everyone that they can achieve the same thing. (Oh, and it's not all unicorns and rainbows. I've posted enough about the occasional drama for you guys to know that. Addiction sucks and makes everything that much harder to navigate through.)

Jesus. I really need to start editing my posts again. Sorry for the endless words.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

340mg ingested yesterday. (I am pretty sure.) Pill box set up and two timers on phone to take 360mg today. Antidepressants and antabuse ingested this morning.

I am very enamored of my pdoc. She's pulled a bunch of research about the relationship between GABA and alcoholism, as well as baclofen. I didn't even have to bring her anything! But I will. (Gonna need help with that, Tk. Just to narrow down and focus. Gods know I'm all over the place right now and have been for a loooong time. If you're not reading here, dammit, will you start?)

Speaking of being all over the place, I have no fewer than 7 major home improvement projects going on. It would be unfathomable for most people, and is an ongoing testament to my husband's patience. Not that it doesn't bother him.

What's more, I really fucked up our finances. Some of you might remember that we got a really large settlement in 2014 from a power company that did some work on our property and messed lots of things up. I'm proud of the fact that I worked hard to document everything and get the settlement. None of our neighbors did, though I encouraged them to try. Anyway, I've spent all of it and more.

I went into depression and homeownership with a surplus of money and a comfortable cushion. Two years of depression later and we are profoundly in debt. It's going to take more than a year to work out of it, and thank all that matters my parents are supportive and helping us out. (They, like my pdoc, see it as a function of my being sick. I/we do not subscribe to tough love. And I/we believe that families help out when they can, and fortunately, my parents are in a position to help both financially and emotionally. I'm so damn lucky.)

That said, it's a mess. And I haven't come completely clean with Ed about it. So that's on tonight's agenda and I'm really worried about it. He has trusted me for years (and with good reason) to manage the finances and keep us safe and secure. This is going to be a blow to our (very solid) relationship that will take a long time to recover from. Fuck, man. I'm really dreading it. Sending good vibes/prayers or whatever my way would be greatly appreciated.