Progress thread for ne

[bleep]

Aaaaargh. I'm SO frustrated.

This post is particularly for Terryk and bleep. I know you remember Amy O'Leary. I know you know that Ameisen was...(heavy, heavy sigh) nuts.

I'm now 13 minutes into the Radiolab podcast about meds for addiction. Amy O'Leary has talked about Ameisen, who buried baclofen on his own without help from anyone else, dammit. Despite the fact that his book saved me from a lifetime of alcohol addiction, I will admit now and publicly that communicating with him made it clear that there was a lot more going on there.

And now, on Radiolab, 13 minutes into it, they're talking to a Dr. Mark Willenbring, who runs a traditional rehab. (EDIT: He does not run a traditional rehab. It is, as far as they go, very proactive.) Then a reporter (not an alcoholic/addict) named Glaser...(The Irrationality of Alcoholics Anonymous - The Atlantic)

Then they start to describe how the drugs work and it's NOT AT ALL HOW BACLOFEN WORKS.

They talk about Naltrexone having a 78% success rate in Finland (a very old study) when Sinclair did his own study.

aaaaaaargh.

Still a good podcast. Just frustrating.

Agreed, it was pretty frustrating how they seemed to veer off course, and the phone call with Ameisen was tragic to listen to. Explains a lot though! The line from the dude that you quoted in your next post also resonated...

Still, I suppose the word gets out with things like this. When I began, I had no idea there were chemical treatments, and that podcast listed several, even if some of the research was a bit off. Any advertising is better than none, or so the saying goes, but then I remember SF, and wonder if it still holds?

[StuckinLA]

I'm just going to barge in without really reading back

There's a new study out of UT Austin that's pretty interesting, using an anti-hypertension drug in fairly high doses, which seems to de-wire the brain pathways that are reinforced through addictive behaviors. Can never remember the name of it, starts with an 'i'.

People are coming around - the tide, in my opinion, has shifted. Meds are no longer the fringe, last ditch, wing and prayer pipe dream they were once believed to be.

Oh, and hope ya'll are doing well out there.

[Spiritfree]

I'm just going to barge in without really reading back

There's a new study out of UT Austin that's pretty interesting, using an anti-hypertension drug in fairly high doses, which seems to de-wire the brain pathways that are reinforced through addictive behaviors. Can never remember the name of it, starts with an 'i'.

People are coming around - the tide, in my opinion, has shifted. Meds are no longer the fringe, last ditch, wing and prayer pipe dream they were once believed to be.

Oh, and hope ya'll are doing well out there.

Thank you for this information Stuck. The medication is called: Isradipine. I will make a post on the my med thread relative to your findings.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I agree, Stuck. Although my pDoc gave me a DVD to watch that was all about curing alcoholism the "natural" way. You guys (or many of you) know how I feel about that shit. If you didn't, now you do. She and I agree that there are imbalances in the body based on being an active alcoholic (hello vitamin B!) and that these things exist both before and after one drinks alcoholically. Never the less, I won't buy into the whole "take all these supplements and you'll be ta-da! cured." Mostly because most of my friends, and many of the people I've met on here, are supplement gurus and (frankly) they're no better off than the rest of us.

What it looks like to me is that baclofen is a silver bullet when it comes to booze, but that most of us will be doing and taking lots of other things to live life to it's fullest. That may be true of humans in general...But either way, I'm glad I've got an arsenal of both meds and holistic approaches to deal with my own chemical imbalances. I'm also thankful that despite a lot of what I used to read here, I was willing to try things until they worked. Oh, and stick with therapy. That's helped. Now if I could just get off the couch. <heavy sigh> Anyone have any insta-motivation for that??? At this point, I'm not sure I'd move if it was burning under me. And Cass, you were always sorta right, even though exercise can't be the be all and end all. I have no doubt I'd be in a whole different world if I had sore muscles as I typed this.

Well, that was quite a tangent. Not at all why I was going to post. Which is to say that most things remain the same, at least in terms of booze and baclofen. Still drinking, still going up.

That said, I submitted my transcripts to the place I REALLY, REALLY want to go to school in the fall. I'm going to be holding my breath until I get a response. Y'all say a little ditty for me, will you?

Bleep, nice to hear from you as always. It was sad to hear, but no worse than that NPR interview he gave a couple of years ago. Wish we'd gotten to the bottom of it before it was too late. I'm not nuts. Are you? (EDIT: Relatively speaking. ha.)

Stuck, nice to hear from you too. Are you taking anything? Or still doing it the Heming-way and muscling that bitch to the ground? (Ha! Nice pun, huh? xxoo)

[Spiritfree]

NE: I do have to ask you a question on the open forum because you will not reply to me in private communications:

Just exactly what are you trying to promote?
--You are a medical professional
--You have been on this forum for 5+ years taking Baclofen
--You are still drinking and taking Baclofen and giving Baclofen advice

Are you trying to convince someone that Baclofen has so changed your life now that it is a great medication to take if you want to be free of AUD (alcoholism)? I just do not understand. Hopefully others will.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

NE: I do have to ask you a question on the open forum because you will not reply to me in private communications:

Just exactly what are you trying to promote?
--You are a medical professional
--You have been on this forum for 5+ years taking Baclofen
--You are still drinking and taking Baclofen and giving Baclofen advice

Are you trying to convince someone that Baclofen has so changed your life now that it is a great medication to take if you want to be free of AUD (alcoholism)? I just do not understand. Hopefully others will.

Why on earth would I return your phone calls? You have threatened me on this forum. You continue to suggest that there is something wrong with me. I know you to be a liar. I know you to take things completely out of context. It seems to me the greatest threat to my license, my livelihood, my sanity, is you. And you expect me to talk to you on the phone or via email? Are you kidding?

I have been taking baclofen for a little more than 5 years now. The last 5 of them (short a few weeks) consistently. I was sober, drinking only when and how much I wanted, for 4 years.

Then I stopped taking enough baclofen and I started to drink alcoholically again. It was a huge mistake.

This does not in any way diminish my experience or my expertise about baclofen. In fact, if anything, it validates that baclofen works. It is a cautionary tale, as well.

You, Spiritfree, on the other hand, have been completely abstinent because of baclofen, without any other medications or therapy, and without a doctor's intervention, for a couple of years. Yet you discourage people from taking it!

As a (soon to be) medical professional I can assure you that you know very, very little about addiction and that I am in a position to see how little you know. I also know, much better than you ever will, what the laws are related to my job, my license and my life. You have proven that you have no idea by threatening me with idle and ridiculous threats that actually have no bearing on reality or truth.

I repeat, you are a malicious pathological liar. I will continue to repeat this until you are completely discredited.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I got a private message asking a couple of pertinent questions and I gave the following response. I thought it might be useful.

The people that stay the course with baclofen (Spirit included, ironically!) find abstinence and/or sobriety easy to stick with.

I was sober, meaning that I drank when and what I wanted (which was rarely and not much) for almost 4 years. Unfortunately I went from my switch dose of 320mg, and my maintenance dose of ~220mg, to 80mg/day. That didn't work for me, especially when my life went topsy turvy! So I started drinking daily again, and then drinking more...

Now I'm titrating up again, drinking daily but not so much that it's disrupting my life. Still, it sucks to crave alcohol again!

The fact that I drink at all is one of the things that makes Spirit think he can make me feel badly about myself and about posting. But the opposite is true. I used to feel badly about being an alcoholic. Now I know it's a function of my brain chemistry. I can't feel bad about something I can't control.

It's important for me to try to help others, too. Participating here helps me, as much as I find it very difficult sometimes. While I don't think baclofen is the only answer, and I know it's not a cure-all, I also know it's the only thing that has ever helped me get control. Every time I try to leave here, I feel an overwhelming sense of guilt about not helping others find the answers I found--and I found them here.

Boy that was a long answer. I might post it on my thread, if you don't mind. It may help others, and I often find myself short on time.

I hope you keep at what works for you, and keep posting!

[knobert]

Hi Ne

You, Spiritfree, on the other hand, have been completely abstinent because of baclofen, without any other medications or therapy, and without a doctor's intervention, for a couple of years. Yet you discourage people from taking it!

I'm not too sure about that. There's something goofy there.
When I worked in construction, we had a saying:

He's half a bubble off plumb.

Knobert

[Ne/Neva Eva]

He's half a bubble off plumb.

Knobert

omg. I love that. Thanks for the new saying.

It's what he claims, regardless of what we know...

[dundrinkn]

I agree with Knobert. I've often thought that a lot of his posts that end up deleted or sanitized sound like a drunk's angry ramblings. I also distinctly remember finding a post about him drinking that was within the last 16 months. Certainly well after he claimed to be abstinent. I mentioned it in a post and then shortly afterward it too mysteriously vanished.

[Spiritfree]

Why on earth would I return your phone calls? You have threatened me on this forum.

As a (soon to be) medical professional I can assure you that you know very, very little about addiction and that I am in a position to see how little you know. I also know, much better than you ever will, what the laws are related to my job, my license and my life. You have proven that you have no idea by threatening me with idle and ridiculous threats that actually have no bearing on reality or truth.

I repeat, you are a malicious pathological liar. I will continue to repeat this until you are completely discredited.

NE -You continue to tell our fellow members and others that I have threatened you. This is an absolute falsehood and you can NOT present one sentence written by me that threatens you. You may want your readers and followers to believe this, but you and I know that you are not telling the truth. Please retract your statement.

[terryk]

NE -You continue to tell our fellow members and others that I have threatened you. This is an absolute falsehood and you can NOT present one sentence written by me that threatens you. You may want your readers and followers to believe this, but you and I know that you are not telling the truth. Please retract your statement.

Here is the threat you made in Nov 2015. You deleted your original post, but Fred the Cat caught it before you did, here:

I have not made any threats. However, let us just find out how laughable your nursing school finds it to be that you ordering prescription drugs on line without a prescription. I can only imagine that they will laugh till the end of the day -and say why do people have problems with professionals breaking the law?

-tk

[Spiritfree]

Here is the threat you made in Nov 2015. You deleted your original post, but Fred the Cat caught it before you did here:
-tk

Where is the threat NE, I mean TK? TK, just exactly what is your point in posting what you post relative to me? Do you not realize that you continue to degrade yourself by trying to belittle me? You do not understand this -Or at least I do. It think that you do.

Terry, of all that I know about you and have read from you, I truly do not think that that you can understand that your attempts to belittle others, including me, does not make you appear to be better or less than; only one who needs and desires attention. --VI--

[terryk]

Where is the threat NE, I mean TK? TK, just exactly what is your point in posting what you post relative to me? Do you not realize that you continue to degrade yourself by trying to belittle me? You do not understand this -Or at least I do. It think that you do.

Terry, of all that I know about you and have read from you, I truly do not think that that you can understand that your attempts to belittle others, including me, does not make you appear to be better or less than; only one who needs and desires attention. --VI--

You know *exactly* where and what the threat is - otherwise you never would have deleted that post the next day.

You are an ignorant child and this whole community has been made to suffer for it. That's not belittling you, that's the truth.

-tk

[Baclofenman]

Where is the threat NE

However, let us just find out how laughable your nursing school finds it to be that you ordering prescription drugs on line without a prescription. I can only imagine that they will laugh till the end of the day -and say why do people have problems with professionals breaking the law?

SF - I dont want to get into a posting war with anyone on this forum as I am here for help and with the exception of last night when I exceeded my plan of Baclofen consumption, quitting AL with the help of Baclofen has been - a doddle - The reason I had SE last night was down to my stupidity, I think - Time will tell

Your quote above, whilst you maintain is not threatening, to the devils advocate (like I am - I dont know the history between you and Ne/Terry et al)this is positively threatening and clearly I am not the only one (with agenda or not you claim) to think so

I have no idea on your or the other posters experience of Baclofen - I have a business to run and not the time to traul through years of epic threads and attachments

But I know what I see from the post above

Regards



Bacman