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[Cinders]

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I just want to add my $0.2.

Bleep, I didn't read hostility in Beatle's post at all. She was just trying to make some valid points. MWO is not a Baclofen forum, such as the Sinclair Method forum is for Nal. I read Beatle's posts as being factual and to the point. That is the way Beatle writes.

Murphy, I totally agree that it is a good idea for newbies (noobs?) to know that Baclofen works!! and I believe your concern is that is if all they see is the SEs we discuss, they may be put off. I agree with Beatle, we need a thread that also talks about those who have succeeded with Baclofen and that it does work. One that stays at the top. We have discussed a "sticky" thread before. Perhaps you could go to the forum moderator and ask for one? That way the thread will always stay at the top.

However, there are those at MWO who are not going to take Baclofen for various personal reasons and they are still trying to get or are already sober. Their way out is as valid as any and that is what MWO is all about.

While this discussion may be construed as contentious (just like Ig's psychosomatic discussion,) I believe it is great for the noobs. (I kind of like that word, Murphy.) Because there is much talk about the fact that despite the SEs some have or are having, people pushed through and reached or are still working at reaching their switch.

Ne's thread here is a great example.

At the end of the day, I hope, we in the meds thread taking Baclofen are all comrades in a united fight against this addiction. Whether we occasionally disagree with each other or not is irrelevant.

Love,
Cindi

[missyabby1]

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Always knew I had you picked Murphy.

Missy.............and don't send anymore offensive pms to me.

[bleep]

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Hostility was too strong a word, I knew it as I wrote it, but couldn't think of the right one at the time. Still can't. It just struck me as a bit of an "attack" for some reason. If that's not what you were saying beatle, I apologise.

[beatle]

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Murphyx;1095989 wrote: ftr I didn't post it on Ne's thread. Ne transferred it over here and so I responded here.

I'm sorry Murph. I did not realize that. You had every right to make that comment, then... I just don't agree about suppressing information for any reason. If the SE-"whiners" are vociferous about their SEs, let those lucky few who had/have no SEs extoll their journeys vociferously.

Another point here that may or may not be true:

I don't think there are very many people who reached intolerance in a very short period of time with no SEs. Maybe if there were, we'd be hearing a lot more from them. Maybe all the people "whining" about their SEs are, in fact, the majority. And assuming this is the case, wouldn't it be is unfair and downright cruel to get noobs' hopes up? Because then they will crash faster and harder, and maybe never come back.

Also, the idea about discussing SEs as being suggestive or causing psychosomatic SEs, I've made my stance clear on this. It is BS. At least from my own experience. I had all these SEs before i ever read about them, and was on the verge of quitting. Not ONE of my SEs came from suggestion. And ALL my SEs were tolerable ONLY because I read about them here.

And because I read that others had them AND were successful, I was able to tolerate them. And I even took a sick kind of encouragement from reading about others' SEs that I actually hadn't experienced.

So, you see, I am coming at this from pretty much the exact opposite experience and point of view from you.

Nonetheless, I DO agree that extolling the virtues of baclofen and pointing out that it IS a cure (not just an idea -- but a real, revolutionary, physical cure) is vitally important if baclofen is to be taken by people who desperately need it. It will be a GREAT disservice to countless people if they decide not to even try based on the SEs... so, I don't know, really. I think this has in fact been done quite well here, though, and am not sure I see it as terribly skewed as you and bleep do.

But by all means, go on extolling (just no denying or belittling of SEs, please, ok?)

And I apologize for the heated tempers. We are a passionate lot here.

[Bruunhilde]

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Perfect posts Beatle and Cindi.

I vote word for the day: vociferous
vociferous

- 10 of 17 thesaurus results
#link_to_div{*padding-right:4px;}.the_content a.nud{color:#4D4E51;text-decoration:none;}Main Entry: vociferous Part of Speech: adjective Definition: loud, insistent Synonyms: boisterous, clamant, clamorous, distracting, loud-mouthed, noisy, obstreperous, ranting, shouting, shrill, strident, uproarious, vehement, vociferant Antonyms: quiet, silent

[Murphyx]

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So, you see, I am coming at this from pretty much the exact opposite experience and point of view from you.

No you're not, but for some reason you think you are. You're replying to someone else's posts, not mine! Look at what you've said: supressing information, SE whiners, psychosamatic SEs, belittling and denying SEs. Where the hell did you get all that from? NOT ME!

If you want to take a pop at me at least base it on something I've done or said. Otherwise your posts appear as as ridiculous as MissAbby's.

I have never said people shouldn't post their stories, or ask for help. I've never suggested they edit the SEs out. I have never called anyone here a whiner. Where does this come from? What I am saying is there is a clear imbalance on the board, because this is primarily a support forum. There is very little about the benefits of baclofen and a hell of a lot about SEs. If you don't see that imbalance fine, but why the extraordinary posts? And who were they actually aimed at? Me?

And for the record, if when I first arrived here the forum looked the way it does now, posts packed full of debilitating SEs I would not have even tried baclofen. And then I wouldn't have known I would be one of those people who switched quickly and with tolerable SEs. I wonder how many others have missed that opportunity.

[Isolde]

Progress thread for ne

FTR, though it's been an easy ride for me lately, since I've reached the switch and titrated down, I had PLENTY of SEs on the way up! I talked about them in my thread as well as lots of other threads. Just wanted to clear that up. Though I know that it was my end result that Murph was trying to highlight, it seems that the whole thing has gotten rather misconstrued..

[Doggygirl]

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Ne, I was thinking about you this afternoon and hope you made it through the dentist appointment OK. Sounded like a painful one to me. I hope Ed is around to pamper you something special tonight.

I'm going to try to use the word vociferous with someone today. I'm going to try to work it in so nobody suspects I'm working it in on purpose. Bruun, I like that "word of the day" thing and I think you should put one out there every day!

DG

[spacebebe01]

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Hi Ne, hope the dentists want too bad for you

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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x

[Lo0p]

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Ne/Neva Eva;1096758 wrote: I'm not sure why I think that being AF should be effortless. And it's easy. Especially with enough bac, consistently in my blood stream. That leads me to believe that it is habit, an ingrained response to just about everything, and that too has to go. Even though I *can* drink, I am able to drink just one drink, for ME it feels like a slippery slope. Since I don't have a reason to drink, don't want to drink, you'd think I just wouldn't drink, right?

hmmm.

Sounds very suspicious to me...

- Evan on his droid

PS.. I owe you a juicy phone call

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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x

[Doggygirl]

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Hi Ne! Good to see you post on your journal. :h I can see your conundrum about AA. You already know that for me, I have recieved a lot of help from AA building a sober life that I am happy with. I am trying to imagine what it would be like if I didn't feel I could honestly take Step 1, and if I was drinking on occassion but - I guess keeping that secret? (of course I don't believe I could ever drink on occassion, nor do I want to - so that is a non-issue for me) I have experienced a lot of benefit from "rigorous honesty" first and foremost with myself and with those closest to me. I just know I could never (at this stage) walk into a meeting and knowingly misrepresent anything.

I am personally very grateful that thus far, I have been able to remain abstinent (and joyfully so these days ) without the need for any medication. But like you said - I see people all the time in AA who cannot manage to stay sober. Who knows - I could be one of them someday. There is a message of hope in bac.

I'm wondering if it will be possible for you to 1) share the message of bac you hope to share at AA and 2) get the maximum benefit that you hope to get from AA (help from others who have learned to live a different way) while drinking here and there because you can?

I am really just rambling here. The bottom line is that your journey is YOURS - and you should proceed in whatever way seems right to you. How other people respond to our actions is out of our hands anyway.

Heavy. Maybe I will got back to thinking about Bruun's Hot Brazilian Boy. Have a great day whatever you do, and I wish you well as you are adjusting your dose and all that!

DG

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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x

[Doggygirl]

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One day at a time is a great way to proceed.

And now there is a war going on in my head between a Hot Brazilian Boy and a Toothless Old German Dude. :b&d:

DG