Progress thread for ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

hmmmm.
grrrr.

Morning.
My experiment is over. I appreciate the antidepressant aspects of bac. I don't like the diatribe going on in my mind. Something to the affect of, "I can't believe I never finished that project I started for Mom's 60th birthday celebration." She's 65. I spent 6 months coordinating her birthday party. It was stunning. It was flawless. This morning I almost wept because I never finished a tiny little piece of it. I threw that shit out.

Yes, of course experiencing sobriety for the first time in many, many years is bound to be fraught with highs and lows. Daily situations can be confusing now that the haze is lifted.
But this is not that. Even as my job comes to an end, a job... I can't even begin to tell you how painful this is... When I'm normal, meaning with enough bac in my bloodstream, I can handle those emotions. They're still there. I'm not, what's the word? I dunno. I'm not numb to them. I am not compartmentalizing them. Whatever. I can't explain.

It is not lost on me how many people start taking ADs when they taper down on bac. (A LOT.) And how many just seem miserable. Thanks, but not for me. Any more than a relapse is...

grrrr.

Same old shit and same people spewing the same vitriol here in the meds threads. This morning my part in it feels HUGE. I feel as though I created it. I know that's because I'm approaching depression with open arms. I want no part of it. Any of it.
One of the ways it affects me is that I feel as though I have to watch every word I write. I have to go back over everything I've said and temper it. Because GOD FORBID someone take it the wrong way, or it be misconstrued or, more recently, used against me.
Fuck that, too.
The last time I felt this way I deleted the only thing that made my contributions here worthwhile, which is to say a day by day record of what it was like, for me. I dunno if you thought so, but I thought it was worth something. I suck. This sucks.

Missy, if campral isn't working try bac. (Yep, I said it. Finally got the cajones to suggest what you've been waiting for so you can call me a drug pusher and remind me that MY way out isn't the only way out. Whatever.) If campral is working, why are you still attacking the people taking bac and fishing for all of the reasons it doesn't work? It works if you can take it. Period. Weigh the risk/reward and make a decision and find a place where you can be comfortable with your decision. Bac might help with that too.

Ed update:
We had another incredibly lovely day. Lovebirds. Sweet romance. Thoughtfulness. Dinner, conversation, scrabble. The sex? omg.
He is still drinking to get drunk, but it wasn't onerous. I didn't want any.
He's got few SEs. He sort of likes feeling a little stoned. :H I can tell that his coordination is a little impaired. He loses his train of thought a bit.
He's sleeping like a baby and not gnashing his teeth. But he's snoring to wake the dead. Or at least the dog. Oh, and a couple of times I heard him have to catch his breath. The familiar *bac-gasp*. I don't know if he realizes it. (I am obviously not sleeping very soundly again. )

Funny conversation yesterday: Swayed a bit by some recent posts about quick dosing, I suggested he speed things up. (As if 20mg every 3 days isn't speedy enough!) We agreed he should dose up to 200 (from 120) this week. omg. What a dumbass move that would be for us.
I would bet that the crash-and-burn-risk from aggressive dosing is greater than just plodding along and letting the bac do it's work. We are so close to fulfillment of dreams and success that I can't even believe we'd jeopardize it. At the very least, he might pull a bleep and lift up the bed looking for aliens or something. He's my rock. That would be rather devastating for both of us.

Hope there's a bit of serenity out there in the other threads for you.
Peace out.
Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

When I started here I was still questioning whether or not alcoholism was a disease. I knew there was something wrong with me, but I wasn’t convinced that I just hadn’t tried hard enough to stay sober. This in spite of the fact that I have been able to accomplish most of the things I put my mind to, just so long as they didn’t interfere with drinking too much.

I asked that question repeatedly, on here and even on Otter’s website. It was insulting to many, I felt, here in the meds threads, where everyone was completely convinced that it was simply a brain chemical malfunction. But I had to understand the answer for myself before I could start ingesting pills from Vanuatu.

I’ve questioned and doubted much of what many take for granted here in the meds threads. I was richly rewarded for it. Sometimes simply because someone suggested I stop posting and start reading, but directed me where to go to find the answers. Often because I received a thoughtful answer or support.

Questioning the long term impact of taking high-dose-bac is no different. I’m nervous about it. No less so because I have seen the Emperor naked and am not better for it.

I find myself very reluctant to post this, or anything. MWO doesn’t feel ‘safe’ right now. In part because of the people who can’t help but pick and choose the most difficult aspects of this process with the result of creating a very hostile environment. Having my own words used to undermine what I believe the purpose of this place is has been very painful.

But also because I may deter people from trying bac when in my opinion it is truly a life-saving medication. I’m not sure what, if anything would’ve deterred me, though. A hostile environment would’ve done it, I think. Not much else. I wasn’t actually desperate. I was very determined, though, and bac and OA had the ring of truth to them.

I am going to trust in the fact that I know that bac has antidepressant qualities. Since tapering down to 100mg I’ve had the familiar circular thoughts in my head about what, how and why I am consistently wrong/bad/less than. Bac has resulted not just in the cessation of craving (and dare I say it, the end of the disease, eventually) it has also allowed me to be more fully myself.

Not trusting myself, and my own instincts, I was fearful (again!) that I was (again!) doing something wrong. But I’m watching my husband’s transformation. He’s not sober, far from it, so I can eliminate that as a factor. He is changed. He’s less anxious, more patient, and more thorough. The change is profound, but he doesn’t even recognize it!

I think it only fair to search for answers about what effect high-dose-bac will have on us. I think it only fair to share side effects, especially when an explanation of dosing schedule and other factors are included. What I find most disingenuous are the people who expect the medicine to work in two weeks. (lol) And also, more importantly, those people that continue to harp on why it’s not safe, not effective, not a cure, when it is all of those things.

Those posts have undermined where I am and how I am able to progress with this in sobriety. I don’t feel as though I should temper my words anymore in order to spare someone’s feelings when I have to carry their onerous, often vicious, thoughts with me. It’s exhausting and reason enough to avoid MWO altogether.

Yet another thanks to Otter for his thoughtful, thought provoking post yesterday. I had already decided to dose back up on bac, to find the place where I’m not slipping or struggling with depression, though that is not why I started taking baclofen in the first place. It is a good reason to take it, though. Sometimes I think of it as a bonus, sometimes I think it’s why the medicine works. OA referred to it in a tv interview last year. It’s not just the cessation of craving; it’s the restoration of order. At least for me. And in my not so humble opinion.

Hope you all find a way out.
Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I have to add that any physician that uses bac, but doesn't prescribe over 100mg/day, is missing the entire point.

And a 70 year old physician, sober through the program of AA is very, very likely to see high-dose-baclofen as scary. On so many levels that it's funny. (the threat to AA, the threat to his medical knowledge, the threats to all he holds dear! oy! Danger, Danger, Will Robinson!)

My primary care physician, and my husband's, had very different reactions to our 'confessions' about taking high-dose-bac. But NEITHER of them was alarmed on a medical level about our safety. Interesting that.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Posting with great difficulty

x

[Murphyx]

Progress thread for ne

Great post Ne.

Hmmmmm, long-term, high-dose bac. It?s a worry for me as well. Not because of any individual and how he may or may not be behaving, but because of the paucity of knowledge. There have been no long term studies of the effects of high dose bac on alcoholic patients. It may have long term consequences, but as we all know, so does the alternative. There have been loads and loads of studies of long-term alcoholism and the results are not good.

So, I decided to taper down (notice I didn?t say ?titrate??) and I?ve been on 100mg for the last 4 days. No cravings but perhaps a slight move towards depression. Not sure. I?ve been taking wellbutrin throughout and I never felt any of the anti-depression or anti-anxiety effects of bac that others have mentioned. In a few days I?ll drop the dose again and see how it goes. If I?m going to take brain meds for the rest of my life I?d like to make sure I take the lowest level possible.

Ne, have you considered not increasing the bac again, but looking for an additional medication to treat the depression? As I recall, SSRIs are a no-no with bac, but other sorts of ADs maybe could be used.

The two weeks to the switch posts are annoying the fuck out of me. As are the yo-yoers who take 200mg one day in 4 doses and 100 the next in one dose and then 300 in 8 doses. FFS, you do that and you are setting yourself up to fail. This is one of the main reasons that I now recommend everyone should try and do this under the supervision of a specialist. Although, in the UK, that seems to be impossible as no one will prescribe high-dose bac for addiction. The other reason to see a doctor first is because there probably isn?t much point using bac if you?re barking mad. Alcoholism may just be quite a minor problem in comparison.

If you can?t get a script and you have to go it alone then stick to the schedule prescribed by Dr L. It?s not perfect, but it gives you a much better chance of success then just playing it by ear or scoffing the tabs like they?re smarties.

And also, be prepared for side effects. They may be quite mild but you should at least expect some somnolence and dizziness and you mustn?t drive for the first two weeks until (hopefully) the SEs subside or at least you get used to them. There may be more severe SEs, as many here will know, but they are temporary and you have to weigh them up against the alcoholism. To me it?s a no-brainer, unless you have a very rare SE that is likely to kill you, then keep with the baclofen. I am so pissed off with people saying they had to stop bac because they were feeling foggy, or lethargic or they didn?t want to disappoint their girlfriend because Mr Floppy had come to stay. Look at the big picture you morons.

Sorry to hijack your thread with a rant Ne, but it?s so full of them I thought it would feel at home.:H

:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

x

[Cinders]

Progress thread for ne

I don't think it's going to turn my brain to mush.

I do, however, know a woman who used to post here that is now in a nursing home because her brain turned to mush from alcohol. Seriously. She doesn't know her husband or her children. Wet brain.

Let's not forget where our eyes are on the prize. Saving our lives.

ps Ne, look at how many are reading your thread. That is awesome. You are forging the way for many who are struggling.

Truth is a good thing. People need to know what they are facing using Baclofen. IMHO facing Baclofen's SEs are much better than facing alcohol's SEs. As I said in another post, I can titrate off of Baclofen, I can't titrate off of alcohol.

Love,
Cindi

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Doggygirl;1101436 wrote:
It has taken some real getting used to - after an entire adult life of daily drinking - to allow natural highs and lows to occur in my life. []

Getting past my desire to "fix it" with a chemical took some time. There are still days where feeling a little blue will make me nervous. I still have to remind myself that almost 3 years of living without AL is a short amount of time compared to an entire adult life of using AL for everything.
DG

DG, I think this is a most important concept that we all have to keep remembering. And remembering to take the anti-depressants and supplements too, because in my worst moments, I don't take those on schedule if at all. :thanks:

Lots of good posts here.... Ne, stop deleting! You slayer of editors, editing to dust your own post, for shame! :H

[_serenity_]

Progress thread for ne

I too have been alarmed by the needless negativity and drama on the boards, NE. It doesn't make me want to come to this site as much either.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Morning fellow bac-ers!

Cinders, I have an essay about all of the dead people I know that died as a result of this disease. It's a little melodramatic so I haven't shared it here. I do wonder sometimes if other people realize what we're struggling with--not just the drunken stupidity or the lack of self-esteem. The consequences are often much greater.

Bruun, my first MWO friend. You are in my thoughts A LOT. Hope you make it away for the road trip with the prettified pooch. You could use the rest, I think. But I get it, either way.

Serenity, I had a post planned for this morning that I thought I would send to you because I knew that you would get it, even if noone else did. I've been missing you, but glad to know you're well.

All the rest will have to wait because I overslept this morning! That simply doesn't happen anymore, but I needed it. Yesterday was exhausting.

So straight to relevant bac-facts:
I'm back up to 140mg. I feel better. I'm going to stay here for a while and let the bac reorganize those wayward chemicals in my brain.
No booze, no wanting of booze, no nothing in relation to booze. We have really good beer in the fridge. Husband was out, long day, good book, music... About 9pm I thought, "huh, in my mind's eye this picture always had a nice glass of wine in it!" My mind's eye clearly needs some new pictures. I'm making them, though, one day at a time.

Newbies and lurkers, we're here. It's real.
Peace, friends.
Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

bac at you, Reg.
:h and :l

(where's my song for the day???)

Which reminds me:

I would like a word for the day. Something that I can use instead of onerous, if I might suggest that. But I'll take anything and will challenge myself to use it as many times as possible.

xo

[Doggygirl]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1103247 wrote: I would like a word for the day.

I don't know why, but CRAPTACULAR came to mind. First non-word I thought of. Our weather in IL is craptacular today!

Hi Ne!

DG

[redhead77]

Progress thread for ne

Reggie;1103246 wrote: i reckon you're ace NE ..you got there and most importantly love being sober ..just post every day you are helping lots of us by doing that including ole crusty reg ..you rock sister spread the word

I agree with that. The other day when you must have decided to delete your daily post, I noticed. I noticed you weren't there for my daily Ne fix. You bring a tremendous amount to this forum. I may have told you before, but I wanted to reiterate. YRSSTW (you rock sister spread the word).

DG, this weather soooooo SUCKS! I haven't even tilled my little garden yet.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Love you, my friends. Thank you.
This is an interruption of our regularly scheduled programming.

I have a burning need to address something I keep reading here on various threads. That usually lands me in hot water, never-the-less, I often can?t resist the urge. (not one of my strengths!) :H

It?s about getting a doctor?s supervision for high-dose-bac. I get it, I really do. It?s a powerful drug. We can?t have any idea who we?re giving suggestions to, who has high blood pressure or a penchant to take it like candy, and end up in dire straits.

Here?s the thing: The number of us that have found a doctor to supervise this are very few. Doctors willing to supervise are, well, they are VERY difficult to find.

Most of us (okay, almost all) did this without direct supervision from a physician. If you can find one, please know how lucky you are and give the doctor credit. (Also, please post your info on the doctor thread, so that others can reach out for help.) If you can?t find one, and you decide to take bac, don?t be a fucking idiot. ** ( said with love.)

There is a lot of good information to be gleaned from this site. I found it. You can find it, too. Reach out to people, look for the ones that are smiling and relatively content. They?ll help you, I promise.

It worked for me. How do I know? Because I spent 7 months finding out how and when and why I was taking baclofen and I found indifference to alcohol.
It?s Friday night. I?m alone. I have a long weekend ahead of me. No responsibilities and no one to answer to. My refrigerator has a dozen REALLY good beers in it. A week ago someone gave me an excellent California Cab.

I came home tonight, put my groceries away, made a pot of outrageously expensive coffee and sat down with my book. It?s a really good book. I can?t wait to finish it. I HAD to stop and write this because I couldn?t concentrate because I was compelled to write this on MWO.

Now I can go bac to my beautiful, serene, lovely, completely sober by choice (and happy about it) evening.

We?re here if you want to take bac and get some measure of what I?ve found.

Peace and :h.
Ne

**to clarify, the definition of fucking idiot, in this case, in my mind, is (in order of knuckleheadedness):

• Taking too much bac, too soon.
• Expecting magic instead of a medical miracle.Taking too much, too soon.Playing around with how much, how often and why you?re taking it in the first place.

Hmmm. That?s all I?ve got. Any other old timers with a smile on their faces want to weigh in on the definition???
xo
If you're going to be a knucklehead, you may end up in the ER. It sounds outrageously unpleasant, in some cases maybe even life threatening. I don't recommend it. I don't think the ones that took that path would recommend it either. Right fellows?

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

So glad for you Neva, too bad it won't work for me unless I tempt a complete stroke out.