Progress thread for ne

[gratitude]

Progress thread for ne

hello all.
habits are neurons too. I think. I always been bothered by the consensus that " BAC is rewiring my brain". I think that BAC is replacing a neurotransmitter that is lacking in the alkie's brain. somehow this reduces or eliminates " craving". your brain was craving alcohol to replace gaba. not much of this is going to change habits which in my opinion are pathways of neurons that have been strengthened by continued use. like a well worn hiking path that is much easier to hike than the off trail bushwhacking.
it seems that the Sinclair method addresses the actual extinction of these pathways and therefore the habit is addressed. somewhat like the forest service coming along and erasing the hiking path. perhaps the combo of TSM and BAC would completely address the habit and craving? grat.

[Murphyx]

Progress thread for ne

So you're saying it's not just magic then? There's like science involved? Oh OK, maybe that's where I went wrong.

[gratitude]

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I don't really know. maybe in your case a witch doctor might help?

[SlipperyPete]

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I'm with Murph on this one. From what I've experienced so far, GABA is a magical thing, and I bow in its greatness. Every day at sunrise I sacrifice a goat to appease the GABA Gods, and I don't question their methods.

[bleep]

Progress thread for ne

There certainly is magic in this. grat, would you not say, that according to your definition of habits, " pathways of neurons that have been strengthened by continued use. like a well worn hiking path that is much easier to hike than the off trail bushwhacking" that we can forge new pathways now, so that in time, we "re-wire" our brains?

Thanks for the kind words Reg - I fear that if you knew me in real life you'd be somewhat disappointed!

And I tried a witch doctor. Fucking hopeless. The bones came out all wrong.

[Bruunhilde]

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Murphyx;1144991 wrote: Weird indeed. The absolutely same thing happened to me a couple of months back. I had such a sweet tooth, but now I have absolutely no interest in anything like that...not even cake YIKES!!!

Ah, Murph, you've given up the lovely puddingy Spotted Dick?

[gratitude]

Progress thread for ne

bleep,
absolutely. the less you use the old trail the more overgrown it becomes. and a bit of bushwhacking is good for the soul,yes?

[Murphyx]

Progress thread for ne

Bruun, Spotted Dick no longer figures in my life. Suet puddings hold no appeal whatsoever soever ever...for now anyway.

OK, all this talk of 'bushwacking' is just making me giggle like a schoolgirl. Yes it means hiking through dense undergrowth blah blah blah, but it also means...errrr...hiking through dense undergrowth, if you know what I mean, which you probably do but are unwilling to admit it because then you'd be just as bad as Murph and as we all know he's a perv and well, just in case you are unsure about the meaning, let's just say this woman Google Image Result for http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_o7Y_cJ7W-9A/SbxFSzLVefI/AAAAAAAAB58/CFxDb85reqo/s400/Indian+Bhabhi+nature+hairy+Body+without+Make+Up+Cu te+girl.JPG is probably no stranger to the alternative definition.

'Nuff said.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

If I click on that link and it makes me blush or whatever... hmmm. To click or not to click.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

That was so not titillating. And that guy can't write. I think he oughta learn the difference between were and wear before he starts waving the ugly stick. just sayin
I'll get bac to all that good juicy worthwhile stuff in the predawn hours. :l

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Grat's "bushwhacking" comment transported me to a segment from Two and a Half Men where a newly single Herb asks Charlie "Charlie, whatever happened to pubic hair?" and Charlie says, "Gone the way of the dodo bird, my friend!" ...

Btw, who would thought the half-man was Charlie? The show should be called Three Half Men.

[Cassander]

Progress thread for ne

Ne:

From today's NY Times. Its not about baclofen, but it looks like a step in the right direction:

July 10, 2011

Rethinking Addiction?s Roots, and Its Treatment

By DOUGLAS QUENQUA

There is an age-old debate over alcoholism: is the problem in the sufferer?s head ? something that can be overcome through willpower, spirituality or talk therapy, perhaps ? or is it a physical disease, one that needs continuing medical treatment in much the same way as, say, diabetes or epilepsy?

Increasingly, the medical establishment is putting its weight behind the physical diagnosis. In the latest evidence, 10 medical institutions have just introduced the first accredited residency programs in addiction medicine, where doctors who have completed medical school and a primary residency will be able to spend a year studying the relationship between addiction and brain chemistry.

?This is a first step toward bringing recognition, respectability and rigor to addiction medicine,? said David Withers, who oversees the new residency program at the Marworth Alcohol and Chemical Dependency Treatment Center in Waverly, Pa.

The goal of the residency programs, which started July 1 with 20 students at the various institutions, is to establish addiction medicine as a standard specialty along the lines of pediatrics, oncology or dermatology. The residents will treat patients with a range of addictions ? to alcohol, drugs, prescription medicines, nicotine and more ? and study the brain chemistry involved, as well as the role of heredity.

?In the past, the specialty was very much targeted toward psychiatrists,? said Nora D. Volkow, the neuroscientist in charge of the National Institute on Drug Abuse. ?It?s a gap in our training program.? She called the lack of substance-abuse education among general practitioners ?a very serious problem.?

Institutions offering the one-year residency are St. Luke?s-Roosevelt Hospital in New York, the University of Maryland Medical System, the University at Buffalo School of Medicine, the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine, the University of Minnesota Medical School, the University of Florida College of Medicine, the John A. Burns School of Medicine at the University of Hawaii, the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health, Marworth and Boston University Medical Center. Some, like Marworth, have been offering programs in addiction medicine for years, simply without accreditation.

The new accreditation comes courtesy of the American Board of Addiction Medicine, or ABAM, which was founded in 2007 to help promote the medical treatment of addiction.

The board aims to also get the program accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education, a step that requires, among other things, establishing the program at a minimum of 20 institutions. The recognition would mean that the addictions specialty would qualify as a ?primary? residency, one that a newly minted doctor could enter right out of school.

Richard Blondell, the chairman of the training committee at ABAM, said the group expected to accredit an additional 10 to 15 institutions this year.

The rethinking of addiction as a medical disease rather than a strictly psychological one began about 15 years ago, when researchers discovered through high-resonance imaging that drug addiction resulted in actual physical changes to the brain.

Armed with that understanding, ?the management of folks with addiction becomes very much like the management of other chronic diseases, such as asthma, hypertension or diabetes,? said Dr. Daniel Alford, who oversees the program at Boston University Medical Center. ?It?s hard necessarily to cure people, but you can certainly manage the problem to the point where they are able to function? through a combination of pharmaceuticals and therapy.

Central to the understanding of addiction as a physical ailment is the belief that treatment must be continuing in order to avoid relapse. Just as no one expects a diabetes patient to be cured after six weeks of diet and insulin management, Dr. Alford said, it is unrealistic to expect most drug addicts to be cured after 28 days in a detoxification facility.

?It?s not surprising to us now that when you stop the treatment, people relapse,? Dr. Alford said. ?It doesn?t mean that the treatment doesn?t work, it just means that you need to continue treatment.? Those physical changes in the brain could also explain why some smokers will still crave a cigarette 30 years after quitting, Dr. Alford said.

If the idea of addiction as a chronic disease has been slow to take hold in medical circles, it could be because doctors sometime struggle to grasp brain function, Dr. Volkow said. ?While it is very simple to understand a disease of the heart ? the heart is very simple, it?s just a muscle ? it?s much more complex to understand the brain,? she said.

Increasing interest in addiction medicine is a handful of promising new pharmaceuticals, most notably buprenorphine (sold under names like Suboxone), which has proved to ease withdrawal symptoms in heroin addicts and subsequently block cravings, though it causes side effects of its own. Other drugs for treating opioid or alcohol dependence have shown promise as well.

Few addiction medicine specialists advocate a path to recovery that depends solely on pharmacology, however. ?The more we learn about the treatment of addiction, the more we realize that one size does not fit all,? said Petros Levounis, who is in charge of the residency at the Addiction Institute of New York at St. Luke?s-Roosevelt Hospital.

Equally maligned is the idea that psychiatry or 12-step programs are adequate for curing a disease with physical roots. Many people who abuse substances do not have psychiatric problems, Dr. Alford noted, adding, ?I think there?s absolutely a role for addiction psychiatrists.?

While each institution has developed its own curriculum, the basic competencies each seeks to impart are the same. Residents will learn to recognize and diagnose substance abuse, conduct brief interventions that spell out the treatment options and prescribe the proper medications. The doctors will also be expected to understand the legal and practical implications of substance abuse.

Christine Pace, a 31-year-old graduate of Harvard Medical School, is the first addiction resident at Boston University Medical Center. She got interested in the subject as a teenager, when she volunteered at an AIDS organization and overheard heroin addicts complaining about doctors who could not ? or would not ? help them.

This year, when she became the in-house doctor at a methadone clinic in Boston, she was dismayed to find that the complaints had not changed. ?I saw physicians over and over again pushing it aside, just calling a social-work consult to deal with a patient who is struggling with addiction,? Dr. Pace said.

One of her patients is Derek Anderson, 53, who credits Suboxone ? as well as a general practitioner who six years ago recognized his signs of addiction ? with helping him kick his 35-year heroin habit.

?I used to go to detoxes and go back and forth and back and forth,? he said. But the Suboxone ?got me to where I don?t have the dependency every day, consuming you, swallowing you like a fish in water. I?m able to work now, I?m able to take care of my daughter, I?m able to pay rent ? all the things I couldn?t do when I was using.?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Cassander;1145799 wrote: Ne:

From today's NY Times. Its not about baclofen, but it looks like a step in the right direction:

July 10, 2011

Rethinking Addiction?s Roots, and Its Treatment

Hi, Cass. Thanks for bringing this over here. (The other thread you put it on was a fascinating one, too. Hope I get to that today!)
What's most profound about this, from my perspective, is that it isn't a part of residency already. It helps me understand why it is so difficult to find and get treatment outside of the specialists. Add to the conundrum that I, in part because I'm an alcoholic, am a terrible patient, much like many of my people, and I can understand the medico's reluctance. (A little bit. Not making excuses for them.)
Yes, the article fills me with hope, too! Addiction medicine, or rather medicines for addiction, are not even a generation old. I forget that. By the time the next generation of alcoholics/addicts roles around I imagine I'll be thinking, "ugh, they just feed everybody pills! Where's the angst! The soul-searching! Being a drunk isn't what it used to be!" :H
It also gives me hope that in every AA meeting I've been to recently (3) I can see that the tenor in the rooms is changing. People talk about the disease as often as they talk about their "junkie side." (I've heard it referred to as that recently. As though there are parts of us that are bad and wish us harm. I prefer the more gentle thought that there are parts of me that need succor and comfort and really likes the immediate gratification of AL. Very primordial that part.)
Anyway, it's all really fascinating, isn't it? I started out like so many others wondering if this was indeed a disease and if it could be treated medicinally! Those were some of the first queries I posted on the meds threads more than a year ago. I was resoundingly ignored! Ha! So I started reading, and now it's a bit of a life's mission for me. Have you read the stuff on the Consolidated Bac thread? The research rocked my world when I got into it.
In fact, you might think about putting that on the CBT. (:H I like that acronym.) The link is in my signature.
Hope it's a good day for you and that your son is improving day by day. It's not always smooth, mind!
Ne
The fact that baclofen wasn't mentioned is not a surprise, nor a slight, imo.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Reggie;1145357 wrote: Since I reached indifference I have studied the reasons why my addicted brain has finally calmed down ...however my dilemma...HABIT .doesn't fit the Dopamine re adjustment mold ..its the ole nature nurture thing..bloody habits ..Any one got some thoughts on this ?...Habitual behavior is fucking driving me crazy lately..even though i dont crave...go figure?

bleep;1145443 wrote: I know exactly what you mean Reg. Habits are a bitch. Only for me, it is somewhat more than a habit. A couple of glasses of watery wine in the evening, and I'm sorted. Seldom more, but definitely not less. Initially, it worries me greatly. Why was I doing this, if I was free? I went pretty deep into it without coming up with answers, and then one day it dawned on me that I didn't actually need it answered.

So that's where I currently stand. Happy with my lot. For the first time in a long, long time. I'm sorry it's not the most helpful of answers.

gratitude;1145532 wrote: hello all.
habits are neurons too. I think. I always been bothered by the consensus that " BAC is rewiring my brain". I think that BAC is replacing a neurotransmitter that is lacking in the alkie's brain. somehow this reduces or eliminates " craving". your brain was craving alcohol to replace gaba. not much of this is going to change habits which in my opinion are pathways of neurons that have been strengthened by continued use. like a well worn hiking path that is much easier to hike than the off trail bushwhacking.

These thoughts got me out of bed tonight because they are so thought-provoking!

First: "bac is rewiring my brain" It feels a whole lot like that initially. An actual aversion to alcohol. My thoughts about it held no fascination, no interest, and quite the opposite, made me physically uncomfortable. Sadly this didn't last. (Ed's going through the same thing right now. Can't bear the thought of booze!)

Yesterday was hot as blazes and I worked hard. I was on my way home and thought about a nice icy cold beer. yum. The thought turned into more than that. Then I decided to have one or two, because what's the harm? That's all I drink, if that. Then I remembered that it can make me feel bad for a day or two and I have a lot going on today and tomorrow. Then I got MAD.

Had the same reaction staring at an ad in Vanity Fair for Patron. It looks so good! It makes me chic! (ha! if by chic you mean stinky, in sweatpants and too lethargic to get off the couch, much less go to a party. Nothing more glamorous than self-loathing.)

And the light bulb went off and I thought, THERE is the habit. Or at least the habitual thoughts.

I sorely want to drink like a "normal person." (DG you were right about that!) I didn't know that. It's not often. The thing is, it feels like it builds on itself and perpetuates itself. There is a part of me that wonders if having a drink wouldn't just eliminate the issue. But, well, I'm scared. And I've got too much riding on this. Having been figuratively locked up once for a rather extended period, I am loathe to go back.

Which brings me to Nal. And staying on HDB indefinitely. I still don't see that those work to get rid of the thoughts though. I completely agree with you that thoughts are wired in the brain chemistry. I think, maybe, they're soft wired, though. Unlike the hard-wiring that the bac took care of. (interesting that the bac took care of the soft wiring initially and then just didn't, isn't it?)

And all that said, I am still effortlessly sober. My lustful moment dissipated and I got on with cutting people off on the highway to make my exit, which I was about to miss, though I drive it regularly. Momentary distraction followed by a more immediately life-threatening momentary distraction, maybe? :H

What to do about it? Hell. I don't know. Therapy? AA? aargh. Seems much easier to remind myself I just don't drink, and that's very easy to do these days. Have a beer and get on with it, already? Might do that too. I hope not. For many reasons, not all of them explicit, ftr.
Thanks!
Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I know of more people who are successfully moderating on bac than I do of people who are successfully abstaining. It's not just you, bleep! Lo0p, of course, but several others that are here or have gone before. Problem, for me, is that it is ALL so new, there aren't any guarantees. I'd like a guarantee. Non-refundable, no fine print.