Progress thread for ne

[Isolde]

Progress thread for ne

Karen, there's absolutely no angst here! :l
The key is that you drank because you didn't have enough bac in your system! It's like a math equation, nothing to fret about. I'm sorry you ended up with such a crappy hangover, but as I've said before, I think the negative reinforcement that this provides when it happens is better than the reverse (there are those who get NO hangover on bac and so end up drinking more because of it).

neva eva;1060517 wrote:
I slept soundly for a couple of hours, then woke up sweaty, full of despair and disgusted with myself. I did and felt what many of us feel in the middle of the night after falling off the wagon. I cried. Then I sobbed a bit. Thankful that my husband was passed out. Unfortunately the poor Goose (my dog) was not and was really alarmed at my outburst. Soothing a dog at 2am is very soothing.
This really made me smile. I've been there and done that with my dog in the middle of the night, and it really DOES help.

neva eva;1060517 wrote:
There was no comfort to be found in xanax for many reasons. Not the least of which is that even in the middle of the night I was pretty alarmed by the idea of adding yet another chemical into my over-taxed system. But more importantly there is NO WAY I've gone through all of this just to find myself relying on yet another chemical to bring me relief. I practiced breathing instead. And thought good thoughts. And wrote and rewrote this post in my head. I actually thought, well, what would Isolde do? (ha!) Then I remembered that you are 10 years younger, with a *very* different bac/AL experience than mine.

Awwww! :h:l I don't think anyone has ever said that about me, in forum land or in real life. So even though you are right, our situations are very different, thanks very much for that thought even crossing your mind.
Glad you decided against the xanax. No need to add fuel to the fire. You probably would have just puked it up anyway! :H

This is going to sound strange, but aside from the part about you throwing up and being hungover and feeling like crap, I actually really enjoyed this post. Maybe you are just that good of a writer, I could picture everything. From you tearing open the Doritos to being elated when you realized you could drink. In any case, it's not a set back. You didn't titrate down too fast and realize that thoughts of drinking returned or have an overwhelming craving come out of nowhere even though you're at or above your switch dose. You just had too little bac in your system. Learning experience.

Hope you are feeling better by now! Lots of :h and :ls!!

[Rusty]

Progress thread for ne

Hi Ne,

How are you feeling, dear one?:l I'm at work so I didn't get a chance to write a long post before. Please don't beat yourself up....maybe the Bac kept you from drinking more? Don't worry that your post caused me any angst.......I'm just here for you....just like everyone else, because we care.:h

[Lo0p]

Progress thread for ne

Isolde;1060824 wrote: This is going to sound strange, but aside from the part about you throwing up and being hungover and feeling like crap, I actually really enjoyed this post. Maybe you are just that good of a writer, I could picture everything. From you tearing open the Doritos to being elated when you realized you could drink.

Me too!! :H

[taw]

Progress thread for ne

No angst caused here either!!! Lots of love to you! and drink lots of gatorade!!

[Rusty]

Progress thread for ne

I'm with Is on this....I could picture you tearing open the Doritos, too....just like I do when I see Lay's Potato Chips....they never make it to the car....they disappear in the parking lot. I did feel sad, though, that your HB was passed out next to you.:upset: It would have been great if he could have comforted you. You would have felt so loved when you really needed it.:l

You know I think the world of you, and I think a huge factor in whether we are able to get AF and stay-free depends on what kind of support we have. It must be sooooo hard to be AF when your husband is still drinking heavily. Does he support your desire to be AF?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Thanks so, so, so much friends. I'm seriously down in the dumps and was eating worms because nobody loves me. (google it, it's a children's song. v. funny)

Husband supports me but also suffers from the disease. I really worried about whether or not it would derail my efforts if he continued to drink. Turns out the opposite is true! I'm ambivalent about his booze, even though he's buying the good stuff these days, I just don't care about booze when I have enough bac in my system!

And the disease is disgusting. He's a good man, with a powerful position in a powerful company and a very, very large staff. He's creative. He loves food more than life! He likes me and puts up with an inordinate amount of shit from me. (Not that I don't, but what woman doesn't?) I'm so thankful that I could fold myself up in the comfort of his body, AND turn on the radio, AND have a little pity party, without waking him.
He's checked on me several times today, sees this as an aberration, not a failure. Which is unbelievable really. (Though that's how I feel about it.)
It takes me several days to recover from the measly amount of beers I drank. Damn aging process! But I'm feeling a little bit better. Ate something a little while ago, though I think I'm going to throw that up too.
Good news is that I have ABSOLUTELY NO interest in booze today and it's the witching hour. Come to think of it, I would've been drinking already, despite the hangover, or because the only thing that fixes a hangover like this one is more booze. (I got the day off, so there must be a god or something. Hope that there's an inordinant amount of mercy if that's the case! )
Love to you, and especially to the lurkers who still feel like this every day. This resoundingly SUCKS.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

hmmm.
Still nauseous. NOW I understand that particular concern. I'm going to take these pills, they're likely going to add to my discomfort, and I'm supposed to continue doing this? Goes against common sense, for sure.
A lot like chemotherapy. I imagine that conversation goes something like this:

"You're asking me to do this when I'm deathly ill, it makes me feel worse, but is going to save my life?"

"yes."

"You promise? Really, REALLY promise?"

"Yes, look at all the ones that went before you! They live yet. Free of disease! Your suffering will end and you will be cured!"

"Okay, I think I've got one more go in me. Bring it on. No promises from me though. I'll just do my best."

But I'm thinking: My body is strong. My will is stronger. My need to live is great. I will conquer this and subsequently anything else that gets in the way of my goals.

Say it with me and take the pills.
Love you.

[seeking_serenity]

Progress thread for ne

neva eva;1061121 wrote: But I'm thinking: My body is strong. My will is stronger. My need to live is great. I will conquer this and subsequently anything else that gets in the way of my goals.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[/B]
Say it with me and take the pills.
Love you.
Karen

AMEN, sister.

[gratitude]

Progress thread for ne

awesome,
I just had a vision of all the MWO'ers at the meet and greet in Chicago. when everybody is standing around saying their goodbye's at the end we all stand in a circle and say loudly... this works if you work it AND JUST TAKE THE DAMN PILLS. amen. hahahahahaha

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Hey NE, how you feeling?

[_serenity_]

Progress thread for ne

Yeah, neva, where you been, sister? :l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I'm here, checking in when I can! Thanks for asking, I was beginning to think no-one missed me!

I'm rockin' the real world atm, but miss MWO with a vengeance.
Update tomorrow!

xo, peeps!

[bleep]

Progress thread for ne

Of course we miss you. Looking forward to your update.

I have worked out what I like about your posts - you are able to post in the same way you would speak, which is a gift. Keep it up neva.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

"Craving for an addictive substance, or a compulsive behavior is the primary symptom of addiction and compulsion in two senses. From the suffering patient's point of view, craving is the constant enemy that must be battled--even after years of abstinence. And, from the point of view of the disease process, craving is now recognized as the number one cause of relapse."
The End of My Addiction by Dr. A p. 164

I didn't take nearly enough baclofen on the day that I drank. I hadn't had a drink in 11 days. I'm surrounded by AL and alcoholism in this home. I just didn't want any. Without enough baclofen in my system, craving set in and there was very little that was going to keep me from drinking that night.

Dr. A goes on in detail in the paragraphs following the one I wrote here to talk about the rats. They don't have a moral/ethical/spiritual dilemma. They crave, they drink, they die from the disease. They are given enough baclofen, they don't crave, they don't drink, they die from something unrelated to the disease.

That is the bottom line.

I think that maybe we have gotten away from the message of hope that baclofen offers us. The titration protocol that we are sharing here seems to be going backward instead of forward. Dr. A found indifference in about a month (32 days.) He added 20mg of baclofen on every 3rd day. He allowed for "an additional 20-40 milligrams a day to deal with heightened craving for alcohol or a spike in my stress level." (p.166) He divided the bac in 3 unequal doses, less in the mornings, more later in the day.

Those things are fact. If I were starting over again, and had the presence of mind that I do now, I think I would start there.

He didn't drink. He avoided drinking places. He used other tools he'd learned from AA and CBT. 32 days, folks.
I couldn't have resisted the craving in the beginning. I was going to drink through my baclofen experience, period. That is one of the reasons I looked to bac. It can and does treat active alcoholics. Painful? Oh yes. Do I recommend it? Of course not. In fact I think it may result in a lot of us giving up baclofen. In my case it was that horrific. I was lucky, though, in many respects. (All the things that worked well for me in active alcoholism...support system of people that help me cover my erratic behavior/moods, among many other things.)

"If I took an extra 20-40 milligrams of bac when I first experienced the desire for AL, I only had to struggle for intense craving for about an hour before it subsided..." (p. 167)
THAT is what I'm going to be reminding myself the next time I forget a dose or 3.

In the meantime I'm going to try very hard to stop lighting fires I will eventually have to put out. In the last couple of weeks I've tried to right every wrong I've created in the last several years. But I set those things in motion and the people around me are having a very hard time adjusting to the new Ne! (She's a lot overbearing, I must admit!)

And I forgot to keep my eyes on the goal. The goal is not to save the world from itself. Or even save another alcoholic.
I need a local doctor! S/he doesn't even need to know much about bac. S/he just needs to be willing to prescribe the stuff in the quantities I need. The rest will come.
To that end I've come up with a plan, and I'd love some input.
I can't afford an initial visit, to the tune of US$300 each time, only to find out that someone is unwilling to go above 80mg. I understand, but I don't have that kind of money or time.
I've printed out some relevant documents, copied some pages from the book. I have a long list of docs in the area who specialize in AL or have given some other indication in their medical background that they are familiar with the disease. I thought I'd write a cover letter and drop off the copies to ten doctors in the area. Follow up with a phone call and see if they're amenable. Schedule a 15 minute phone consultation and establish a minimal understanding of this course of treatment.
The only thing I'm not going to be flexible about is the baclofen. The rest? Well, if s/he recommends inpatient/outpatient treatment then we're not on the same page. But therapy? Other drugs? I'll try my best to follow direction. And I'll do much better than I ever have before.

While I truly appreciate the bloginess we are achieving here, and longed for it when I first arrived at MWO, I miss the scientists/researchers that I found here back then. (11 short months ago!)
There is a lot of misinformation here in this tome we've created and I'm going to spend the next couple of weeks trying to clean that up. A heartfelt thanks to those that have pointed it out. I hope that will continue to happen.

One last thing. The topiramate/topamax studies were published in 2008. Three years after the book that this website is based on was published. For additional information about glaucoma you can look to the study published in JAMA 229(4) (January30,2008) by Spaeth and Montravadi. About increased risk of suicide the research was reported in the New York Times, February 1, 2008 by Harris and Carey.

Damn. Not an expletive or an emoticon to be found here. Hope it's not terribly boring. Fear not! I've created all sorts of crazy messes in the last couple of weeks and I'm moving into the guest room in order to avoid the teeth-gnashing reek of the disease on a regular basis. That should keep things interesting for a little while.
:ls and :h
PS Completely sober, on 260mg/day of bac. Sleeping issues abated. NO CRAVING.

[bleep]

Progress thread for ne

Seems like a good plan ne. That way you avoid wasting time with some fool who will listen, nod wisely, and suggest you tootle off to the next AA meeting. Get used to the fact that you will be telling them more than they will be telling you, and that they simply won't believe you when you say you were an alcoholic.

Good luck, let us know how it goes...

How did you edit your username?